Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
It’s not...they just take in a ton of raw revenue that Anaheim can’t. Higher cost...higher yield.
Besides...I thiught garden grove was poo pooed as a hoax?
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Disneyland considering building new hotels in Garden Grove
- Thread starter TP2000
- Start date
It’s not...they just take in a ton of raw revenue that Anaheim can’t. Higher cost...higher yield.
Besides...I thiught garden grove was poo pooed as a hoax?
nevol
Well-Known Member
Is it reasonable to assume that that's exactly what I said before everybody went into cardiac arrest?
Last edited:
nevol
Well-Known Member
Because WDW fans think their resort makes 10 times as much money as Disneyland and that Disneyland doesn't matter and they don't want to believe how significant an earner and therefore how big a priority Disneyland Resort is to the company. This context is important because people are dismissive of the notion that TWDC would even build more hotels or attractions in CA.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Back on topic.
Could a "hotel" sold primarily to DVC members be project they'd consider for GG? Billing it as only DVC access and a exclusive shuttle to main gate. Because isn't one of the complaints of DVC at DLR they aren't really getting a better experience than a regular on-site park guest.
Just my quick thought for the day.
Could a "hotel" sold primarily to DVC members be project they'd consider for GG? Billing it as only DVC access and a exclusive shuttle to main gate. Because isn't one of the complaints of DVC at DLR they aren't really getting a better experience than a regular on-site park guest.
Just my quick thought for the day.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Definitely, but I don’t know if you’ve noticed that some WDW fans only stop by the DLR forum to defend WDW in any way shape or form. I say we pay no mind with the antics.
nevol
Well-Known Member
I don't know who you're referring to, or you're referring to me but not comprehending what I'm saying, but I said that Disneyland's profit margins are way higher than walt disney world's, to the extent that despite the vast difference in scale of the resorts, their profits are very comparable. To the extent that I'd wager, if they wanted to build a resort in Florida in 2018, knowing what they know now, they'd build it more alike the size of Disneyland. Because what they have now begs the question of "what's the point" with all of the added effort. WDW creates value in brand awareness around the world but for a company that cares more about the bottom line, it isn't as valuable as you'd expect.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
You’re saying you have THE Current breakdown of the margins?!? And Disneyland makes more in net revenue that WDW?
...oh do share. And right after you and I go straight to bobs office next to sneezy and demand more gates in Anaheim...we’ll stack them if we have to. Because that’s where the money is...
Thank you for the update. We’re talking raw revenue and walk away profit...not revenue and profit “per person”, correct??
I’m looking for the breakdowns and it’s been a while since I have seen them. Darned annual report and the “groupings”
Last edited:
nevol
Well-Known Member
Again, you're taking what I'm saying a step further than I am. WDW makes more net profit than Disneyland. But not by a whole lot.You’re saying you have THE Current breakdown of the margins?!? And Disneyland makes more in net revenue that WDW?
...oh do share. And right after you and I go straight to bobs office next to sneezy and demand more gates in Anaheim...we’ll stack them if we have to. Because that’s where the money is...
Thank you for the update. We’re talking raw revenue and walk away profit...not revenue and profit “per person”, correct??
I’m looking for the breakdowns and it’s been a while since I have seen them. Darned annual report and the “groupings”
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Net profit? I thought that Sandra Bullock movie was a bomb?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I’m seriously considering changing my name to “Kathy Kennedy in an Unemployment Line”...the time is right
Last edited:
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Commander Cody. The time has come.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
So how would increasing the overhead at Disneyland by adding yield MORE revenue and profit? It wouldn’t...it would bleed the margins downward.
You are correct in identifying WDW as a overhead behemoth...it has actually limited development in many ways. I said the other day that tickets don’t make money and some fool wanted a chart. That is not a closely guarded secret...and there isn’t a need to question it...it makes common sense. It’s just apparently not that common .
But...if the premise...and if I recall it was (too lazy to go back) that Disneyland makes more money and therefore should get more?...then that is a self defeating prophecy. DL customers spend less per day than the Easters. Annuals are significant there and very insignificant in the other. So taking on more infrastructure doesn’t make any sense.
It’s not an us vs them thing...I like both for different reasons. But the beast is in Orlando and it requires more food. They are scrambling by the billions to correct not feeding it in earnest for 10 years...
Don’t neglect fluffy. Now back to regular programming
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
nevol
Well-Known Member
Here is where I'll jump from defending a fact without being able to cite it into theoretical "I think" territory
.I think the resorts have very different problems, wdw's being overhead. Disneyland on a busy day has about 190,000 people per square mile. People pay sometimes hundreds of dollars a day to be in one of the most crowded places on earth because it provides that value. But that cost benefit negotiation has been happening lately as the park has gotten so crowded that the guest experience has taken a hit. There is no shortage of demand, there is a shortage of facilities at DLR. New rides, lands, attractions equal more square footage on-stage that guests can use to regain guest experience. If it is more costs operationally, it also maintains current value proposition and even expands the capacity of the park, keeping it as worthwhile and as densely crowded as it already is, with more people. The more significant problem would be if they built a third park that would require new parking, transportation, and 15,000 new employees.
So they're just in different situations. Disneyland's audience is growing, and without the park incrementally growing, its guest experience and earning potential will drop off. They have to spend to continue to earn. The alternative, that they have built in and will execute on this summer, is the changes to the AP program. Guests to disneyland are paying a low average ticket price because so many have annual passports. those people paying the lowest to be there are also contributing to the crowding. They could pull back on the access granted to passholders, which would improve guest experience and increase the average price of admission, without expanding facilities or overhead. With star wars: galaxy's edge, we see both approaches happening at the same time. Restricting AP access to control crowding and drive up the average ticket price, while also expanding facilities and operations costs.
Disneyland resort's hotels were above 90% occupied versus disney world's 70 percent even when DCA was pulling 5 million a year and the resort project overall seemed like a failure. They are yielding massive profits off of the restricted supply of on-site accommodations, but I think that given that the demand was already astronomical before dca 2.0 or star wars were part of the picture, they could add another 2 thousand on-site rooms without losing profit margins or occupancy rates. Hotels though have unions, hundreds of employees, all things to consider.
Last edited:
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Hi Folks, as you probably guessed, I have been extremely busy, and on multiple fronts, and of course, can't talk much about the last few days. I thought I might get online Saturday Night from my Hotel room, by getting back at 1 AM nixed that plan. (And a week from now, off to Washington DC and 5 states for three weeks....) So let me share what I can, and please understand, some of this is rumors.
Is Disney talking to Garden Grove, of course. They have been for a long time, and recently a bit more than usual.
What has Garden Grove offered? Large plots of land at cost, tax rebates, and other government assistance. Nothing secret or hidden about that. GG wants to have Disney build TOURIST facilities, not backstage. They are looking for the Tourist dollars.
So what is Disney thinking? The word is of course, based on the ALWI, and if it becomes law. One way Disney should easily avoid it is to not take/qualify for it. So don't build a 4 star Hotel/ Maybe build a 3 star version, use less staff, since the guests won't expect as much on the West Side.
Then in GG, build a true 4 Star Resort, think of a Disney version of a Great Wolf, so having a Hotel Guest only mini Water Park, maybe a couple of Virtual Reality type of rides (as in dry, not water park related). While GG can offer some large lots, not enough room for a true third park, or even a water park. Of Course, tie in the Disneyland name, use deluxe shuttle buses and build an exclusive drop-off zone for them on property. Have the security check in GG before guests board.
Is Disney thinking about this, of course. Will it happen, my guess, no, but only for the fact that the ALWI either won't pass, or will be thrown out in a lawsuit.
Will Disney build something in GG? Probably, especially if GG keeps promising tax breaks to them. So yes, I do see a Hotel with a mini-water park being built with Disney's name on it. But read my words very carefully, Disney might not be the owner, just the manager..... That depends on how Disney wants to go, as it probably won't be green lighted until Iger leaves,
And in Virtual Reality, don't think of just a VOID experience, but a Theater type of experience also. Both can use a reasonable sized space and can handle a few hundred guests easily, a theater could handle a couple of Thousand or more.
So that is what is circulating regarding Garden Grove. One more interesting note, Mayor Tait has business dealings in Garden Grove.
http://www.theliberaloc.com/2014/01/23/tom-tait-for-corporate-cronyism-before-he-was-against-it/
Is Disney talking to Garden Grove, of course. They have been for a long time, and recently a bit more than usual.
What has Garden Grove offered? Large plots of land at cost, tax rebates, and other government assistance. Nothing secret or hidden about that. GG wants to have Disney build TOURIST facilities, not backstage. They are looking for the Tourist dollars.
So what is Disney thinking? The word is of course, based on the ALWI, and if it becomes law. One way Disney should easily avoid it is to not take/qualify for it. So don't build a 4 star Hotel/ Maybe build a 3 star version, use less staff, since the guests won't expect as much on the West Side.
Then in GG, build a true 4 Star Resort, think of a Disney version of a Great Wolf, so having a Hotel Guest only mini Water Park, maybe a couple of Virtual Reality type of rides (as in dry, not water park related). While GG can offer some large lots, not enough room for a true third park, or even a water park. Of Course, tie in the Disneyland name, use deluxe shuttle buses and build an exclusive drop-off zone for them on property. Have the security check in GG before guests board.
Is Disney thinking about this, of course. Will it happen, my guess, no, but only for the fact that the ALWI either won't pass, or will be thrown out in a lawsuit.
Will Disney build something in GG? Probably, especially if GG keeps promising tax breaks to them. So yes, I do see a Hotel with a mini-water park being built with Disney's name on it. But read my words very carefully, Disney might not be the owner, just the manager..... That depends on how Disney wants to go, as it probably won't be green lighted until Iger leaves,
And in Virtual Reality, don't think of just a VOID experience, but a Theater type of experience also. Both can use a reasonable sized space and can handle a few hundred guests easily, a theater could handle a couple of Thousand or more.
So that is what is circulating regarding Garden Grove. One more interesting note, Mayor Tait has business dealings in Garden Grove.
http://www.theliberaloc.com/2014/01/23/tom-tait-for-corporate-cronyism-before-he-was-against-it/
D
Deleted member 107043
So, if I'm following you correctly, you're saying that if the Anaheim wage increase legislation passes Disney will seriously consider building tourist attractions/hotels in an adjacent town instead of Anaheim to avoid higher labor costs, which could potentially result in two different tiers of pay for the same roles at its Southern California properties?
nevol
Well-Known Member
Can Oriental Land Company just take over the entire resort
Thanks again for your insights. This is getting good.
D
Deleted member 107043
So at what point do the citizens and/or leaders of Garden Grove tire of Disney's antics and thwart this project with their demands? Surely they can't be blind to what's happening on the other side of their border.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I could still see Disney throwing GG a bone and building a DVC only property.