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Disney ( World ) vs. Disney ( Land )? - Jim Hills Thoughts
- Thread starter djkidkaz
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muteki
Well-Known Member
The problem here is (and not just with Disney fans, other industries work this way as well) that the "fan community" is so infinitesimally small (or at least, perceived that way by the powers that be) in comparison to the regular park-going public, that it makes no sense for Disney to cater to, or do anything at all, to please them.
I wish the fan community was treated as an asset. I wish the things we wanted fixed/built were. I don't think however it makes sense for TWDC to listen to any of us, certainly not make multi-million dollar decisions based off the opinions of a few (or at least, what they think are a few).
An argument could be made that Disney fans in general contribute more to the bottom line of TWDC over the course of a lifetime than most of the general public, but I doubt those figures will ever be known.
If they start investing more money into WDW more and lets say build a few E tickets, I highly doubt they would be working off of our priority list of what to fix. More than likely we would get what they would think the general public would want, before anything we would be interested in. See: Avatar/Cars Land.
I must state again, that there is a difference between running a company short sightedly to make the company appear to be stronger than it may be on the books vs making decisions (i.e. to remove logos from cups) in order for the execs to take the savings and go to Vegas. What I get tired of is the accusation that because TDO has done something that is different that it is being done completely for the motive of unethical profiteering.
Do I think that the current leadership at TDO is the end all be all to theme park leadership, no I do not. In fact, Im still upset about the fiasco that was New Years Eve and more recently making a production about adding bleachers to an already established venue and calling it an expansion. There have been little things in the past that have irked me, prior to the current leadership team. Taking the flower cart off one of the side streets to replace it with a snack cart. Turning the penny arcade into a much expanded emporium. But I didnt go around accusing TDO of making the cuts or changes to stuff more cash into their pockets.
Yes I will probably get roasted for brining this back up, but there is no one forcing anyone to go to WDW. It is not an entitlement. It is not some religious pilgrimage (well it may be to some). If I felt like I had been cut 999 times, I would not go back, pay a boat load of money to stand in line for number 1000.
flynnibus
Premium Member
You have to listen to customers but you can't crowd source product development. Every industry has got a graveyard of companies or products where they listened to customers TOO much.
A common simple premise to remember is customers tend to put themselves first. It tends to lead to more complex products, bloated, and more expensive. Apple under jobs was the poster child for the other extreme... Being so far ahead of your customers he could confidently ignore customers and the benefits outweighed the trade offs enough he was looked upon as correct... More often than not (*cough* single button mouse.. *cough*)
A common simple premise to remember is customers tend to put themselves first. It tends to lead to more complex products, bloated, and more expensive. Apple under jobs was the poster child for the other extreme... Being so far ahead of your customers he could confidently ignore customers and the benefits outweighed the trade offs enough he was looked upon as correct... More often than not (*cough* single button mouse.. *cough*)
flynnibus
Premium Member
Well what motivation would you believe they have when they make changes that even you as a lay person see as weakening the product? Do you believe leadership , all the advisors and leuitenants are just completely ignorant of that view... Repeatedly? Or are they and everyone below them is completely incompetent in seeing the alternatives and their impacts.
How would you classify what has clearly been a pattern of squeezing the product over and over again and still just barely treading water? It means they keep making shortsighted decisions to keep the bottom line up instead of trying to fix the product. It shows their priority is on financial performance above all else.
Think about it... If you are in a recession and unemployment is so high... Would holding back senior management bonuses really cause a flight risk? No they know there is nothing else out there current that will hand them a golden envelope. Instead they chose to cut product, still pay their bonuses, and just do 'enough' to keep the floor from falling out on the reporting.
The behavior is about who do you prioritize? They are not making sacrifices themselves for their lack of performance. That is the corrupt culture people are hating on.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
Customers want more benches!
I think Disney actually does too much customer research. I really wish they had some people putting together their survey's that knew how to do it. Having gone through them a number of times, they are soft and have biased leans towards an answer they want a lot of the time. The cynic in me says that is on purpose to reinforce what they want to hear. A little bit of Steve Jobs attitude in Disney would be refreshing. They seem to be to risk adverse to really commit to something creative. Maybe something that is not tied into a movie. Do something a little original. What is the last true original experience not tied to some synergy in the company? I'm guessing Everest?
Does anyone know if the cup issue was really cost-cutting? Or could inventory have run out just before the introduction of a new design?
muteki
Well-Known Member
Customers want more benches!
A little bit of Steve Jobs attitude in Disney would be refreshing. They seem to be to risk adverse to really commit to something creative. Maybe something that is not tied into a movie. Do something a little original. What is the last true original experience not tied to some synergy in the company? I'm guessing Everest?
It is not so much the survey's fault, but the statistics involved in who actually gets picked to fill it out. Chances are really small that out of a random crowd of people, the one or two people they pick out are say, going to remember Imagination v1, or SSE pre-Siemens.
I have been lucky enough to been picked twice to fill out their surveys, and you bet I gave them a piece of my mind. Vast majority of who fills out those surveys though, is John and Jane Doe from Anytown USA.
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
Knowing that Disney will be getting a change in leadership in a couple of years, I'm hoping that whoever that is will be a bit more creatively-minded than Bob Iger. Iger has done a good job but perhaps a fresh and, hopefully, more creative impetus might improve some of the things that the fan community has become disillusioned with, particularly elements of WDW.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
I love it when people get all worked up about Disney World being this broken down mess all the while TDO is celebrating their huge bonuses with the money saved by making Disney World that way.
Fact.
Disney World is seen as this horrible and cheaply maintained vacation destination by a small, small minority thats less than one percent of all people who go to the parks. The people who complain seriously just have too much time on their hands.
Fact.
Most executives in power positions get paid in company stock for their bonuses, not cash. They get paid in stock because the intention is for that person to work harder to make that stock more valuable. While I don't personally know what happens in the Disney corporation, I would venture a ignorant guess thats how they do business. So to ridiculously think TDO is lighing cigars with unspent mantainence budget is humorous.
Jimmy Thick- Feel a new thread brewing...
Fact.
Disney World is seen as this horrible and cheaply maintained vacation destination by a small, small minority thats less than one percent of all people who go to the parks. The people who complain seriously just have too much time on their hands.
Fact.
Most executives in power positions get paid in company stock for their bonuses, not cash. They get paid in stock because the intention is for that person to work harder to make that stock more valuable. While I don't personally know what happens in the Disney corporation, I would venture a ignorant guess thats how they do business. So to ridiculously think TDO is lighing cigars with unspent mantainence budget is humorous.
Jimmy Thick- Feel a new thread brewing...
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
Why?
The next leader will follow the same suite and just do what is necessary because thats all they have to do. The days of another Walt will never happen in the business world of today. Esiner was the last bastion of creativity and we will never see that ilk again.
Jimmy Thick- Sadly.
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
That's why I said hoping, not expecting. Personally, I would like to see TWDC go back to the Eisner/Wells leadership structure where the CEO could concentrate on the creative elements of the company while an experience CFO could handle the business and financial side. This might never happen and I'm just ruminating here but there are creative executives out there who could be what Disney needs right now. If Disney promote Iger's successor from within, chances are things will stay as they are but if Disney were to search outside the company, like they did when they hired Eisner and Wells, they might someone who is creative and could bring about some kind of upturn.
asianway
Well-Known Member
Real WDW F&B survey they have been doing most of the year: hello I'm with Wdw research may I ask you if you purchased any food or beverage in the park today? "no" ok thanks for your time.
Ummm missing something important here? Care to hear why I didn't? They are leaving a significant number of potential negative responses from the results.
And if guest scores affect bonuses, well, the survey has just been manipulated to deliver a higher bonus percentage.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
Its a wonderful thought and honestly I think the theme parks could use a nice swift kick in the rear, but unless the company was on its last legs, like when they hired Eisner, I doubt they will look for someone like that. Disney has just too much going for it.
Jimmy Thick- Movies, theme parks, Marvel, the characters, thats a lot of stuff....
FrankLapidus
Well-Known Member
Agreed but I think there are other areas of the company that need a similar swift kick in the rear, particuarly the live-action film studio where I think there is a lot of room for improvement; hopefully that will come with the new leadership that has been brought in there. I wouldn't be surprised if the new CEO turns out to be someone like Tom Staggs (although the insiders here have said he will probably leave with Iger) but until whoever it will be is announced, I'll hold out some hope for a more creative figure at the head of the company.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I think this thread should close, it's becoming too crazy. People are mean.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Meanness aside, this thread has had numerous well thought out posts on both sides of the argument.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
True. Key word: HAD. Now everyone is just picking on other posters and there's a negative feeling on this thread. Hopefully it will get back on track.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
I tried earlier today but failed. I'm throwing up the surrender flag on this thread.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I posted when the thread first popped up. Maybe one or two posts. I've just been reading now and I'm not going to contribute to the actual subject of the thread. It's out of control now.
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