Disney World unfairly slammed for wages.

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Almost forgot. For a career minded person, I would say deal with Disney for at least a year. Your resume gets the boost from a well respected company.

Especially if you look for work outside of a city with a large Disney presence. I was fired from Disney (not quit, not laid off)... and it's still on my resume because I know that all Disney states is dates of employment/title/wage, and I know that it's a great selling point for a potential employee.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
What should Disney start hiring at for the position of ride operator for Dumbo?
$8-9/hr doesn't seem unreasonable. It's about what a hotel front desk clerk earns when they first start.

Both are unskilled jobs that involve dealing with the public.
 

theRIOT

Active Member
Lazy huh?

As a former CM, I feel I should add to this discussion.

I had a dream to work at my favorite place in the world.
So I went there.
I was only scheduled 20 - 30 hours a week, but I ended up with 40 or more because whenever any of the CP's who didn't want their guaranteed 40 hours, knew to come find me. I also worked at Downtown Disney after my MK shift was over. When I didn't have to work at the Virgin Megastore I would pickup shifts at other parks or resorts. It was long hours, it was hard work, but I loved it. I was in Florida, at Disney and I didn't mind it one bit.

My goal was to work my way up. I have in every job before and at every job since. But there is only so much a person can do.

It was just discouraging then, and still is, to see a company make so much money off the backs of people, but not re-invest it them. Instead they fly artisans from India to build staircases for restaurants in AK. They give millions upon millions to charities (which is not a bad thing at all) but they could take a fraction of that amount, increase wages and still come out ahead.

You're right, a company doesn't owe anyone a living, but they owe them a fair wage for a hard days work. And CM's work their tails off.
 

Mr. Morrow

New Member
Original Poster
$8-9/hr doesn't seem unreasonable. It's about what a hotel front desk clerk earns when they first start.

Both are unskilled jobs that involve dealing with the public.

I see your point, those are 2 different things. What does a hotel front desk CM start at does anyone know?
 

t3techcom18

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, certain fields are very limited in what jobs are offered in regional areas.

I have a degree in Radio-TV-Film, I was on track to be a radio personality (luckily I also had a minor in Computer Science). As my college career progressed, and I began looking at jobs, I realized that I would need to move to where the jobs are. This meant possibly working the midnight shift at a radio station in Oklahoma (I'm in NJ), or somewhere else where they would let a beginner in - and then possibly moving around the country for better work.

Theater is the same way. A friend's son has a Masters in Theater - and his first job was on a cruise ship - with a 6 month contract, 3 months off, then another 6 month contract. He baled after the first contract, and was then traveling the country with either the "My Little Pony" show or a Sesame Street or Dora/Diego show - you get the idea. He will eventually end up in New York - but he will have traveled much before then.

Me? I would have traveled the country doing radio, but a physical challenge kept me close to home and turned my career into the computer field - and I was a wedding DJ for 10 years...

Not to criticize your father, but do you really expect to earn much with a Master's Degree in Theater?

I have an MFA, and I knew full well that it wasn't going to help me find work. Which is why I also have a more practical degree as well.

I understand what both of you have said - he has an MFA from FSU. Like I've mentioned before, he has indeed applied and even gone to interviews in Naples, Sarasota, and Miami for what he specializes in, Theater Management. He even applied to jobs that the pre-requisite was only a Bachelor's degree, yet that still didn't help. In this case, for him, it would be how many are about working for Disney when they love it - they don't care bout pay rates or benefits, they just love their job and everything else is honki dori, even if financials aren't. With that knowledge, that's why even though my aspirations for degrees are in Film or Writing, the third is to be a Professor in Philosophy, that, while it takes a lot of time and money because you can only get a PhD in the field, it's practical.

We very much considered moving to Ohio so he could get a degree in Theology, and ultimately that is his main goal - but as always, monetarily it's not feasible at all. If it says anything, I can't even save or spend 3/4 of my paycheck each week cause they will use it. The last time we went on a complete, actual vacation that wasn't to see relatives in PR that happens every 5 years or just a weekend somewhere else in FL, was back in 98 when he won a CM only free cruise for DCL, being the guinea pigs on the pre-maiden voyage of the Wonder.
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
I understand what both of you have said - he has an MFA from FSU. Like I've mentioned before, he has indeed applied and even gone to interviews in Naples, Sarasota, and Miami for what he specializes in, Theater Management. He even applied to jobs that the pre-requisite was only a Bachelor's degree, yet that still didn't help. In this case, for him, it would be how many are about working for Disney when they love it - they don't care bout pay rates or benefits, they just love their job and everything else is honki dori, even if financials aren't. With that knowledge, that's why even though my aspirations for degrees are in Film or Writing, the third is to be a Professor in Philosophy, that, while it takes a lot of time and money because you can only get a PhD in the field, it's practical.

We very much considered moving to Ohio so he could get a degree in Theology, and ultimately that is his main goal - but as always, monetarily it's not feasible at all. If it says anything, I can't even save or spend 3/4 of my paycheck each week cause they will use it. The last time we went on a complete, actual vacation that wasn't to see relatives in PR that happens every 5 years or just a weekend somewhere else in FL, was back in 98 when he won a CM only free cruise for DCL, being the guinea pigs on the pre-maiden voyage of the Wonder.

Florida in general is just not a good place for performing art degrees unless you want to stick with the universities or public school systems.
 

t3techcom18

Well-Known Member
$8-9/hr doesn't seem unreasonable. It's about what a hotel front desk clerk earns when they first start.

Both are unskilled jobs that involve dealing with the public.

Very true. When I meant by different pay in different lines of business, I believe it should be classified and designated through 3 things: 1) How much guest contact and store conditions (whether it's mostly A/C, outside, etc), 2) How labor intensive it is, and 3) How much responsibilities are given to you.

As a former CM, I feel I should add to this discussion.

I had a dream to work at my favorite place in the world.
So I went there.
I was only scheduled 20 - 30 hours a week, but I ended up with 40 or more because whenever any of the CP's who didn't want their guaranteed 40 hours, knew to come find me. I also worked at Downtown Disney after my MK shift was over. When I didn't have to work at the Virgin Megastore I would pickup shifts at other parks or resorts. It was long hours, it was hard work, but I loved it. I was in Florida, at Disney and I didn't mind it one bit.

My goal was to work my way up. I have in every job before and at every job since. But there is only so much a person can do.

It was just discouraging then, and still is, to see a company make so much money off the backs of people, but not re-invest it them. Instead they fly artisans from India to build staircases for restaurants in AK. They give millions upon millions to charities (which is not a bad thing at all) but they could take a fraction of that amount, increase wages and still come out ahead.

You're right, a company doesn't owe anyone a living, but they owe them a fair wage for a hard days work. And CM's work their tails off.

Amen to that, thankfully someone else knows how us CM's feel. :wave:
 

t3techcom18

Well-Known Member
Florida in general is just not a good place for performing art degrees unless you want to stick with the universities or public school systems.

I know, I'm not planning on staying here in FL. Just gunna do the first 2 years here in community college, then from there jumping somewhere else, depending on what I find between now and then.
 

DisneyJoe

Well-Known Member
Like I've mentioned before, he has indeed applied and even gone to interviews in Naples, Sarasota, and Miami for what he specializes in, Theater Management.

Are they big theater towns? Why limit yourself to Florida?

I was laid off from my NJ job in August 2001; it took me almost 9 months to find full-time work again (in the computer field in NJ); meanwhile, I took interviews in Albany NY, Washington DC, and various locations in Virginia and Maryland and yes, even the Orlando area - although I would have taken a huge cut in salary with an Orlando job.

Think big!
 

floridabill

New Member
Ridiculous!

Really whats next burger king doesn't pay enough either?? or walmart!! why does disney take all the crap?? like minimum wage is a new thing??!?? GIVE ME A BREAK!! And i get times are tough so don't give me that crap either!! I work in retail and get minimum wage!! you get paid for what the job is!! most CM jobs are only worth minimum wage anyway. Scooping ice cream and flipping burgers and cleaning the crappers is only worth that!!!!!!! and they employ over 50,000 plus people!!! if we started paying $20 for crap jobs!! then we would pay more to get in, more to stay, more to eat!!! AND THEN YOU WOULD ALL COMPLAIN EVEN MORE!!!!:fork::fork: Minimum wage works with inflation, the more it cost to live somewhere the wage will go up a little. Thats why when FL was so cheap to live in at one point minimum wage was $5.00.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
I know, I'm not planning on staying here in FL. Just gunna do the first 2 years here in community college, then from there jumping somewhere else, depending on what I find between now and then.
vuelve a PR... schools here are MUCH cheaper ;)
 

Mr. Morrow

New Member
Original Poster
that's surprising since you cannot spell correctly.

Sorry master, I hit an extra button I didn't mean to offend you. Anyway what does me hitting an extra key have to do with me working 2 jobs. I made a spelling error so that means I couldn’t have had 2 jobs? Also one of those jobs was as a CM.
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
I'll just pop my head in here for a second, then let you guys go back to your individual discussions...

While the minimum wage is generally considered to be the lowest amount a company HAS to pay an employee, it was originally designed as a means to counteract substandard wages in sweatshops. In other words, the minimum wage, as originally designed was to be better than substandard. The "minimum" in "minimum wage" was considered to be the minimum amount a person could live on. No one would get rich living on the minimum wage, but no one would starve either. I was meant to be a livable wage.

Now in most areas of the country, you can't survive, even as a single person with no dependents, on the minimum wage without additional assistance. It is not a livable wage anymore. People who don't have to worry about the minimum wage often talk about moving where the jobs are as if a: there were a plethora of better paying jobs out there, especially in an environment like today's where there are 5 unemployed people for every single job being generated, and b: moving itself isn't a tremendous financial difficulty, like the poor can act like hobos, throw their kit in a bindle hop on the rails and arrive in a big city with a smile and their potential and find all them jobs no one else seems to be able to find. It's a crock, and only the fortunate and the foolish would believe otherwise.

Some states (if not now, then in the past) mandate a higher minimum wage than the federal does, because they're aware that someone who works for the federal minimum wage often can't afford rent AND food. It seems that enough people in power in Florida would like that not to happen. After all, if resort employees all got paid an extra buck an hour, then a vacation might cost an extra 100 dollars per family, and people would stop flocking in Florida. But now, we may be witnessing a "slow bleed" approach to Florida tourism - companies cut corners by paying their employees cheaply, then cut corners further by limiting on-the-job training and other perks. So they're getting employees who are "content," or at least are not in aposition to complain, to get paid suck low wages. This means their customers are getting a less-satisfactory experience, and are less inclined to return, or at least return as much.

An educational approach might help; for instance, a national campaign that educates Americans that "the best price" for them might result in a substandard of living for other Americans, and if paying a few extra pennies for certain items means more Americans can live better - and thus contribute more to the economy themselves - then it's downright patriotic to want people to be paid well, even if it subsequently means more money out of your pocket; it all eventually comes back around, like karma and John Travolta's career.

Unfortunately, such efforts are oft undermined by shall-we-say certain types of Americans who would rather believe that type of logic leads to socialism, and the only true way to be patrotic is to exploit or be exploited; work hard for what you get so that maybe one day you can make someone else work even harder to get what THEY get until only a few can afford to get anything, and the rest can't afford to DO anything to get anywhere to get anything else.

Until that way of thinking is negated, minimized, struck down as being bad for America...until CEOs who get paid tremendous amounts of money realize that giving themselves less and putting more into their companies (and their employees' pockets) pays huger dividends all around - nothing will get better. Not for WDW CMs. Not for Orlando. Not for America.
 

Evil Genius

Well-Known Member
What it boils down to for me is the fact that the federal and state governments create these minimum wages that are classified as a "living wage" and the cost of living from state to state simply isn't proportionate to this so-called "living wage".

I'll agree that Disney being specifically attacked on this subject is unfair. At the same time I do feel that they are under paying their cast members. However I think most people in hourly positions in this country are under paid. I'm not saying these positions need to have their rates doubled...however I think raising the rate has multiple benefits.

For starters if a company was to raise their hourly rate of pay they could essentially eliminate the need for their employees to work multiple jobs in order to survive. This creates an enviroment where your work force is going to be more loyal, more productive and less fatigued. Thus increasing productivity.

Secondly a increased hourly rate virutally guarantees an increase in the overall economy of the surrounding area. The more a person makes generally equates to the more a person spends.

However saying all that you cannot remain in an hourly position anymore and expect to be incredibly successful. These positions are meant to be entry level as a general rule and as such people should strive for more.

That being said, minimum wage still too low.
 

Mr. Morrow

New Member
Original Poster
I have no problem with CM's getting paid more, I used to be one. I just don't think Disney should be attacked over this.

Here is to all CM's getting a big raise!
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
I'll just pop my head in here for a second, then let you guys go back to your individual discussions...

While the minimum wage is generally considered to be the lowest amount a company HAS to pay an employee, it was originally designed as a means to counteract substandard wages in sweatshops. In other words, the minimum wage, as originally designed was to be better than substandard. The "minimum" in "minimum wage" was considered to be the minimum amount a person could live on. No one would get rich living on the minimum wage, but no one would starve either. I was meant to be a livable wage.

Now in most areas of the country, you can't survive, even as a single person with no dependents, on the minimum wage without additional assistance. It is not a livable wage anymore. People who don't have to worry about the minimum wage often talk about moving where the jobs are as if a: there were a plethora of better paying jobs out there, especially in an environment like today's where there are 5 unemployed people for every single job being generated, and b: moving itself isn't a tremendous financial difficulty, like the poor can act like hobos, throw their kit in a bindle hop on the rails and arrive in a big city with a smile and their potential and find all them jobs no one else seems to be able to find. It's a crock, and only the fortunate and the foolish would believe otherwise.

Some states (if not now, then in the past) mandate a higher minimum wage than the federal does, because they're aware that someone who works for the federal minimum wage often can't afford rent AND food. It seems that enough people in power in Florida would like that not to happen. After all, if resort employees all got paid an extra buck an hour, then a vacation might cost an extra 100 dollars per family, and people would stop flocking in Florida. But now, we may be witnessing a "slow bleed" approach to Florida tourism - companies cut corners by paying their employees cheaply, then cut corners further by limiting on-the-job training and other perks. So they're getting employees who are "content," or at least are not in aposition to complain, to get paid suck low wages. This means their customers are getting a less-satisfactory experience, and are less inclined to return, or at least return as much.

An educational approach might help; for instance, a national campaign that educates Americans that "the best price" for them might result in a substandard of living for other Americans, and if paying a few extra pennies for certain items means more Americans can live better - and thus contribute more to the economy themselves - then it's downright patriotic to want people to be paid well, even if it subsequently means more money out of your pocket; it all eventually comes back around, like karma and John Travolta's career.

Unfortunately, such efforts are oft undermined by shall-we-say certain types of Americans who would rather believe that type of logic leads to socialism, and the only true way to be patrotic is to exploit or be exploited; work hard for what you get so that maybe one day you can make someone else work even harder to get what THEY get until only a few can afford to get anything, and the rest can't afford to DO anything to get anywhere to get anything else.

Until that way of thinking is negated, minimized, struck down as being bad for America...until CEOs who get paid tremendous amounts of money realize that giving themselves less and putting more into their companies (and their employees' pockets) pays huger dividends all around - nothing will get better. Not for WDW CMs. Not for Orlando. Not for America.


Well written post Slappy.

Though my conservative mind does quiver alittle. Because you can bring other factors into the conversation such as illegal immigration and its effects on employment.

I think you are being alittle extreme on the exploit or be exploited comments though. You can work hard, network, make a name for yourself, without ever having to actually exploit anything. Simple hardwork does still pay off in this country. I'm sure we have all held jobs where we thought we weren't being paid enough, but that it a entitlement mentality that many of us have when we are younger. I hated what I was being paid when I worked as a cashier...but when i look back, I really wasn't responsible for much...when I started working for a cruise line, the pay was significantly better and I was happy with it for a couple years...but of course I got to a point where I didn't feel I was being paid enough anymore...even though the responsibilities hadn't changed much since when I first started at the job.

It may be so that minimum wage needs to be increased...and I have not argued against that point in this thread...but a job that pays minimally should be seen as a stepping stone to gain experience, knowledge, and personality that can better equip you to move onto another position. CMs gain alot of practical knowlegde that they can take with them through their careers. It is no one's fault but there own if 5-10 years down the road they are still in a position where they have only received cost of living raises..etc. Extreme circumstances aside, everybody has the same opportunity to make something of themselves.

One last comment on CEO pay...I know that the general thought is that these people make too much money, and in some cases this is true (Eisner's stock compensation package was ridiculous). But these people have worked long and hard to get where they are, putting in 18-20 hr days for years and are now in command of million dollar corporations that employ thousands upon thousands of people...all of who's fate more or less depend upon the decisions they make, which is extremely hard and stressful to say the least. The job calls for high salaries.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Look... This is pretty simple.

Disney pays what they pay because they CAN. Disney uses its reputation and nostalgia in getting employees just as it's doing right now to keep attendance up at the parks. Just as people will continue to take trips to the parks even though the quality of the product isn't what it once was, so will people continue to want to work for the mouse.

People want to work there. For a list of reasons. But as long as people want to work there, Disney doesn't need to raise wages from where they're at. Are they low? Sure sounds like it. But it's supply and demand, people.

Until Disney is unhappy (for whatever reason) with the level of CM's they have, or until they have a hard time hiring people to fill positions because people aren't interested because of pay, things will stay the way they are.

It seems pretty simple to me. I don't really agree with it... But it's fairly black and white, none the less. They're the largest game in town, with a history and reputation that has people flocking to them. They've earned that reputation, and they're trading on it now, big time. Both with paying customers, and with CM's in many cases.

Now... Just how LONG they can continue to do that is a whole other discussion.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
I don't think Disney is wrong to pay as low as they pay. They are like any other business -- they should pay the least they have to pay to get the quality of employee they want to have. While we might wish Disney would pay more to get better employees, I think it is a fact that Disney's cast members provide better service (on the whole) than cast members at other theme parks. Some might say "Then they deserve more money." But the business analysis would be that since Disney is getting cast member who provide good service, there is no need to pay more -- they're getting the desired quality paying a low amount.

Every employer has similar issues to deal with. I worked for the US government for a number of years. I happen to be in a profession where private sector wages are much higher, than standard federal government wages. My agency could not hire the quality of people needed at standard government salaries. Congress agreed and created a special salary scale that allowed the agency to pay more for people in my profession. At the same time I was being paid more than standard government wages to do accounting, a good friend of mine was doing more difficult and more important work in the intelligence area, but was paid on the standard scale. Why? Simple -- if you want to do that kind of intelligence work, you pretty much have to work for the federal government. There's no competition, so no need for the government to pay extra to people doing that -- there's plenty of qualified people willing to do it for low salaries, so there's no need to raise the salaries.

Disney is in the same place, it seems. It's called capitalism and the free market.

That being said, I also have no problem with people criticizing Disney for choosing to pay the low wages they pay. That's also part of a free market. We, as consumers, are free to disagree with any business decision a company makes, and take our business elsewhere because of it. I don't think the criticism in the article was particularly unfair. It was an opinion, and one that I undersand, even if I don't entirely agree with it.

Finally, we have the government and the minimum wage laws. If I had a vote in Congress, I would certainly vote to raise the minimum wage, because I don't think somebody can live on that wage even working full time, and I do think that we should, as a society, be willing to pay enough for goods and services so that the people providing them can afford to live and eat.
 

floridabill

New Member
Look... This is pretty simple.

Disney pays what they pay because they CAN. Disney uses its reputation and nostalgia in getting employees just as it's doing right now to keep attendance up at the parks. Just as people will continue to take trips to the parks even though the quality of the product isn't what it once was, so will people continue to want to work for the mouse.

People want to work there. For a list of reasons. But as long as people want to work there, Disney doesn't need to raise wages from where they're at. Are they low? Sure sounds like it. But it's supply and demand, people.

Until Disney is unhappy (for whatever reason) with the level of CM's they have, or until they have a hard time hiring people to fill positions because people aren't interested because of pay, things will stay the way they are.

It seems pretty simple to me. I don't really agree with it... But it's fairly black and white, none the less. They're the largest game in town, with a history and reputation that has people flocking to them. They've earned that reputation, and they're trading on it now, big time. Both with paying customers, and with CM's in many cases.

Now... Just how LONG they can continue to do that is a whole other discussion.

I don't understand why this is such an issue all of the sudden??!! cause the economy is bad?? Disney has paid minimum wage forever. so whats the big deal??? :shrug:
 

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