Disney World unfairly slammed for wages.

[DisneyJoe]

like the poor can act like hobos, throw their kit in a bindle hop on the rails and arrive in a big city with a smile and their potential and find all them jobs no one else seems to be able to find

I watch poor hop on a bus every day, travel 90 minutes via bus each way to and from the city, just to ... ah nevermind.

Let me just say that I am very proud of some of the people that I see travel on the bus everyday, those I know are working multiple jobs and hustling to support themselves and their families (at minimum wage most likely) - then there are those who make the same commute, almost daily, to beg, borrow, and steal.

It's astonishing at times.

 

[devoy1701]

I don't understand why this is such an issue all of the sudden??!! cause the economy is bad?? Disney has paid minimum wage forever. so whats the big deal??? :shrug:

because someone found an article that mentioned Disney and minimum wage?

And because news is slow this summer for WDW...

 

[DisneyJoe]

Aren't many Disney workers represented by unions?

 

[floridabill]

because someone found an article that mentioned Disney and minimum wage?

And because news is slow this summer for WDW...

I guess so.... it just boggles my mind how everyone is acting like it's a new thing. Every retail fast food and amusement park all pay minimum wage. oh well it's not even worth arguing with people, cause they hear what they want to hear.

 

[Erin_Akey]

I know this may not come across as nicely as it is intended, but from my recollection back when i was in college, working at Disney was a very sought after job for college kids, not necessarily something to be a career choice.

While I hate it that people are not making what they feel they deserve, but didn't everyone KNOW what their pay was going to be BEFORE they accepted these jobs????

Of course I think I am worth more than i make, but I took this job knowing my pay and do the best I can each day and accept that the economy is what it is and I may not get a raise for a while.

 

[s8film40]

First, yeah, I get what you mean bout Minimum Wage, but for quite a while until I believe bout 1 or 2 years ago, FL's minimum wage was below the Federal Standard. It wasn't until the current administration that they brought every state's minimum wage to at least the Federal Standard.

What administration are you talking about? Florida's minimum wage is and has been for some time calculated on a yearly basis based on a cost of living formula. It goes up every year so long as the cost of living goes up, it has nothing to do with someone deciding to raise it.

Raising minimum wage rates actually usually hurts people in lower paying jobs. A company or department after all usually has a certain budget set a side for labor and most of the time this doesn't increase just because the minimum wage does. I know after the most recent minimum wage increase some areas began giving out less hours and overtime, this scenario can force people to work two jobs to make up the difference but then working the same or more hours with no overtime effectively reduces their pay. Some areas dropped the starting pay for certain positions that payed above minimum wage to make up the difference. So all in all the minimum wage increases aren't helpful at all. The best bet is if you want to make more find a job that pays more simple as that.

There are ways to make money at Disney. You just have to be smart and know how to find it. Many of the tipped positions are a good start when the guests are paying the wage castmembers do much better. I know of servers who make $100,000 a year.

 

[Lucky]

State minimums can be above the federal minimum, but not below it.

 

[Tom]

Last time I checked, you always know what your wage/salary is going to be when you hire on with a company. It's not a surprise. You can't blame your employer for not paying you enough to pay your bills when you know what they're going to pay you when you sign up.

 

[raven]

Aren't many Disney workers represented by unions?

Yes. Unions that can't represent you for your first 90 days but by then they've already taken $200 out of your paycheck for their dues.

What I often hear from new CM's that I train is "You want me to do how much for how little?"

Our union says the CM's in my department should be starting at $11.45/hr. That is maybe what you get after 10 years of service with seniority. We go through a lot of on-going training and are around hazardous chemicals, materials and often unsafe work areas every shift. So it's still very diffucult to believe they can expect so much from their CM's and pay so little. They don't tell you these detail at Casting when you are hired.

The other problem has been stated already. Disney will now hire just about anyone. Long gone are the screenings, interviews and weeding of potential CMs. They simply want people just to fill in empty roles and can care less if you like their company or not. This is often why guests wonder why some CMs are lazy or rude. No matter how hard they try you can't train someone to care.

I feel the company has gotten itself into a rut because of this. They can't get quality new CM's that care with paying such a low amount, so they settle for someone off the street.

 

[stlbobby]

If the CM's want better conditions why don't they form a union? With the specialized skills of many CM's, and the value of true customer service, the CM's would have a real shot at establishing collective bargaining.

Unlike a Walmart where a the entire staff of a store could easily be replaced in a matter of days, if not hours, WDW is vulnerable because it is a single location, they couldn't weather even a short disruption of services, and even the corporate culture dictates that not just anyone can jump into a CM role.

Hopefully if this were to happen the new union would work with the company to provide better working conditions for the employees without extorting the company into oblivion--ala the UAW.

A few notes on the specifics of WDW economics. Florida does not have an income tax so even if the standard of living is a bit higher than other cities people take home a greater portion of their paychecks than most places. I would also imagine that if WDW keeps their seasonal employees on the books while they are not working it is to avoid unemployment claims. It is probably cheaper to pay the administrative costs, continuing benefits, and slightly higher returning wages than pay people to not work for weeks at a time.

Another observation is people have to realize their choices will impact their lifestyle. The decision to work towards a degree in theater is going to impact your earning potential. I'm not denigrating a theater degree. I myself have a liberal arts degree, but I realized when I chose to pursue that degree that my earning potential was not nearly as great as someone specializing in business or a technical field.

Finally there are tons of options out there if someone is seriously looking for a way to better their lot in life. Try finding an apprenticeship program in a trade. Plumbers, sheet metal workers, and electricians do very well, but often they have difficulty finding journeymen to fill out their ranks. In St. Louis the sheet metal workers' union advertised on Cardinal broadcasts last summer seeking apprentice members they were so desperate to fill jobs. Those opportunities may have slowed recently, but they are still out there.

Another option is the military. The easiest way to move from low income to middle / upper middle class is the US military. The benefits are amazing. In the short term it is the easiest way to pay for college and get technical training on the job. Long term you can build a great career, craft a nice life for a family, and retire in as little as 20 years. You won't make CEO dollars, but you will make a good wage, have opportunities for education, healthcare, and family benefits. You can start a savings plan early and really have a great nest egg. If you are smart about your career you can retire on half pay with unmatched leadership skills, a security clearance, and specialized job skills that can take you directly into a six figure plus private sector job.

I admit it is tough out there, but there are many ways to improve your lot, sometimes it takes more than hard work. It might take short-term sacrifice and persistence, but just sitting back and blaming an employer or the economy isn't going to help you.

 

[floridabill]

Yes. Unions that can't represent you for your first 90 days but by then they've already taken $200 out of your paycheck for their dues.

What I often hear from new CM's that I train is "You want me to do how much for how little?"

Our union says the CM's in my department should be starting at $11.45/hr. That is maybe what you get after 10 years of service with seniority. We go through a lot of on-going training and are around hazardous chemicals, materials and often unsafe work areas every shift. So it's still very diffucult to believe they can expect so much from their CM's and pay so little. They don't tell you these detail at Casting when you are hired.

The other problem has been stated already. Disney will now hire just about anyone. Long gone are the screenings, interviews and weeding of potential CMs. They simply want people just to fill in empty roles and can care less if you like their company or not. This is often why guests wonder why some CMs are lazy or rude. No matter how hard they try you can't train someone to care.

I feel the company has gotten itself into a rut because of this. They can't get quality new CM's that care with paying such a low amount, so they settle for someone off the street.

But why would they do such a thing?? does it cost to train and screen?? why just take some nasty uncaring person off the street to work eek! especially in today's society you need to screen and wean!!!

 

[s8film40]

Yes. Unions that can't represent you for your first 90 days but by then they've already taken $200 out of your paycheck for their dues.

What I often hear from new CM's that I train is "You want me to do how much for how little?"

Our union says the CM's in my department should be starting at $11.45/hr. That is maybe what you get after 10 years of service with seniority. We go through a lot of on-going training and are around hazardous chemicals, materials and often unsafe work areas every shift. So it's still very diffucult to believe they can expect so much from their CM's and pay so little. They don't tell you these detail at Casting when you are hired.

The other problem has been stated already. Disney will now hire just about anyone. Long gone are the screenings, interviews and weeding of potential CMs. They simply want people just to fill in empty roles and can care less if you like their company or not. This is often why guests wonder why some CMs are lazy or rude. No matter how hard they try you can't train someone to care.

I feel the company has gotten itself into a rut because of this. They can't get quality new CM's that care with paying such a low amount, so they settle for someone off the street.

Yes, exactly. You get fired from Walmart where else is there to turn Disney. This is what Disney is working with, you get what you pay for.

 

[Tom]

If the CM's want better conditions why don't they form a union? With the specialized skills of many CM's, and the value of true customer service, the CM's would have a real shot at establishing collective bargaining.

Unlike a Walmart where a the entire staff of a store could easily be replaced in a matter of days, if not hours, WDW is vulnerable because it is a single location, they couldn't weather even a short disruption of services, and even the corporate culture dictates that not just anyone can jump into a CM role.

Hopefully if this were to happen the new union would work with the company to provide better working conditions for the employees without extorting the company into oblivion--ala the UAW.

A few notes on the specifics of WDW economics. Florida does not have an income tax so even if the standard of living is a bit higher than other cities people take home a greater portion of their paychecks than most places. I would also imagine that if WDW keeps their seasonal employees on the books while they are not working it is to avoid unemployment claims. It is probably cheaper to pay the administrative costs, continuing benefits, and slightly higher returning wages than pay people to not work for weeks at a time.

Another observation is people have to realize their choices will impact their lifestyle. The decision to work towards a degree in theater is going to impact your earning potential. I'm not denigrating a theater degree. I myself have a liberal arts degree, but I realized when I chose to pursue that degree that my earning potential was not nearly as great as someone specializing in business or a technical field.

Finally there are tons of options out there if someone is seriously looking for a way to better their lot in life. Try finding an apprenticeship program in a trade. Plumbers, sheet metal workers, and electricians do very well, but often they have difficulty finding journeymen to fill out their ranks. In St. Louis the sheet metal workers' union advertised on Cardinal broadcasts last summer seeking apprentice members they were so desperate to fill jobs. Those opportunities may have slowed recently, but they are still out there.

Another option is the military. The easiest way to move from low income to middle / upper middle class is the US military. The benefits are amazing. In the short term it is the easiest way to pay for college and get technical training on the job. Long term you can build a great career, craft a nice life for a family, and retire in as little as 20 years. You won't make CEO dollars, but you will make a good wage, have opportunities for education, healthcare, and family benefits. You can start a savings plan early and really have a great nest egg. If you are smart about your career you can retire on half pay with unmatched leadership skills, a security clearance, and specialized job skills that can take you directly into a six figure plus private sector job.

I admit it is tough out there, but there are many ways to improve your lot, sometimes it takes more than hard work. It might take short-term sacrifice and persistence, but just sitting back and blaming an employer or the economy isn't going to help you.

Unionizing the rest of the CMs would just be a disaster, and will only cause prices to skyrocket for us guests.

Again, when you hire on as a CM at WDW, you know exactly what you'll be making before you even start. Heck, all of their starting rates are clearly listed on their employment website for anyone to see.

To hire on and then be mad at your pay is just idiotic.

 

[s8film40]

But why would they do such a thing?? does it cost to train and screen?? why just take some nasty uncaring person off the street to work eek! especially in today's society you need to screen and wean!!!

Because they have to take what they can get, they have to hire everyone that walks through the door and sometimes that isn't even enough. If Disney wants to be selective with who they hire they would have to raise pay and that's not an acceptable option for them.

 

[stlbobby]

Yes. Unions that can't represent you for your first 90 days but by then they've already taken $200 out of your paycheck for their dues.

What I often hear from new CM's that I train is "You want me to do how much for how little?"

Our union says the CM's in my department should be starting at $11.45/hr. That is maybe what you get after 10 years of service with seniority. We go through a lot of on-going training and are around hazardous chemicals, materials and often unsafe work areas every shift. So it's still very diffucult to believe they can expect so much from their CM's and pay so little. They don't tell you these detail at Casting when you are hired.

The other problem has been stated already. Disney will now hire just about anyone. Long gone are the screenings, interviews and weeding of potential CMs. They simply want people just to fill in empty roles and can care less if you like their company or not. This is often why guests wonder why some CMs are lazy or rude. No matter how hard they try you can't train someone to care.

I feel the company has gotten itself into a rut because of this. They can't get quality new CM's that care with paying such a low amount, so they settle for someone off the street.

I didn't realize there were unions at WDW when I wrote my previous post (this line appeared while I was typing).

If everyone is so dissatisfied why don't the unions take a more proactive approach? It seems WDW would do just about anything to avoid a strike in the middle of summer. Do the unions represent everyone or just segments? And is that starting salary written into a contract or just a recommendation? If it's not written into a contract why not?

Maybe the CM's shouldn't blame Disney, but they should blame their union representation. The reps work for you. If you aren't satisfied then you need to find reps that will demand the working conditions you think you deserve and get them in writing. Of course you have to rally the rank and file and make sure they are ready to stand together and actually follow through with a strike if necessary. And they need to ensure other locals will not cross their picket lines. It's tough but it takes real leadership to make it happen.

 

[Phonedave]

I'll just pop my head in here for a second, then let you guys go back to your individual discussions...

While the minimum wage is generally considered to be the lowest amount a company HAS to pay an employee, it was originally designed as a means to counteract substandard wages in sweatshops. In other words, the minimum wage, as originally designed was to be better than substandard. The "minimum" in "minimum wage" was considered to be the minimum amount a person could live on. No one would get rich living on the minimum wage, but no one would starve either. I was meant to be a livable wage.

Now in most areas of the country, you can't survive, even as a single person with no dependents, on the minimum wage without additional assistance. It is not a livable wage anymore. People who don't have to worry about the minimum wage often talk about moving where the jobs are as if a: there were a plethora of better paying jobs out there, especially in an environment like today's where there are 5 unemployed people for every single job being generated, and b: moving itself isn't a tremendous financial difficulty, like the poor can act like hobos, throw their kit in a bindle hop on the rails and arrive in a big city with a smile and their potential and find all them jobs no one else seems to be able to find. It's a crock, and only the fortunate and the foolish would believe otherwise.

[\QUOTE]

The problem is, there are jobs that deserve below the minimum wage.

When I was in HS and College I worked in a grocery store. When I started I was paid minimum wage (and I deserved it). I was not looking to make a living off of my pay. I was looking from some folding money. The $4.25 an hour I got (in 1985) was plenty for my needs, and what I deserved for the cashiering I did. Fast foward to 1992, and I am still working in that store while in College. Now I am able to sub out a Manager in any department except for Meat Cutter (It is a different Union - I could do it, but had to keep the fact I was working as a butcher on the down-low). I was also a PIC - Person-In-Charge. In the absence of a Department Manager, I was in charge of the entire store. I was now making $8.75 an hour straight time, and was pulling 10 hour shifts at time-and-a-half on Sundays. I was also doing work that deserved that pay rate.

To set a minimum wage that allows a person enough to live on means that the person who works 40 hours sweeping floors and carrying boxes with no responsibilites is going to make that wage. A person with that sort of job should not be paid that much. Or, if they should be, then many many others should be making a lot more than they do.

-dave

 

[OFTeric]

without getting into the politics or anything of the like, i am going to give my .02 cents.

I am entertained that people who complain about the declining guest experience in the parks are the same people defending Disney and their wages.

People have stated that "disney has every right to pay what they pay" and that is a correct statement.

HOWEVER. I DO NOT go to Disney for a Walmart or Burger King experience.
I DO NOT stay at a Disney Resort for a Motel 6 experience.

If you are going to be charging 4 & 5 Diamond prices, I expect 4 & 5 Diamond Service.

The same goes for theme parks. I am NOT going for a regional amusement park experience. These parks are being marketed and sold as a World Class life changing family experience, and they brand their customer service as legendary, and as part of the experience. So if I am going to be charged 80.00 a day per person, I expect the same level of service I would get a Ski Resort that costs the same.

So I have LONG argued that Disney should not be hiring people who are "walmart" caliber, and in order to do that, they need to pay more so they can get the quality of people who can provide the experience that people are being charged for.

I argue that Disney is actually robbing the customer, and in turn robbing the share holder of long term value by NOT paying it's Cast Members more.

 

[stlbobby]

Unionizing the rest of the CMs would just be a disaster, and will only cause prices to skyrocket for us guests.

This is a false assumption. If the union overused it's power and decided to extort the company than yes it could happen, but it isn't a forgone conclusion. It is more than possible that by having a more satisfied and professional workforce customer satisfaction and productivity would increase, increasing profits. An effective union can streamline human resources procedures such as filing grievances and pay structures saving the company time and money. Also by raising wages and benefits WDW would attract a better class of worker that could find better ways of doing things again saving the company money.

It is a longterm business strategy as opposed to a bottom-line strategy.

In my opinion the best bet for a company is to pay their employees well, not ridiculous but well, develop talent, and create a fair and pleasant environment, preventing turnover and the need for employees to form a union that can then demand too much. Just my personal view.

 

[Mrs. Jobson]

as a former cm, i feel i should add to this discussion.

I had a dream to work at my favorite place in the world.
So i went there.
I was only scheduled 20 - 30 hours a week, but i ended up with 40 or more because whenever any of the cp's who didn't want their guaranteed 40 hours, knew to come find me. I also worked at downtown disney after my mk shift was over. When i didn't have to work at the virgin megastore i would pickup shifts at other parks or resorts. It was long hours, it was hard work, but i loved it. I was in florida, at disney and i didn't mind it one bit.

My goal was to work my way up. I have in every job before and at every job since. But there is only so much a person can do.

It was just discouraging then, and still is, to see a company make so much money off the backs of people, but not re-invest it them. Instead they fly artisans from india to build staircases for restaurants in ak. They give millions upon millions to charities (which is not a bad thing at all) but they could take a fraction of that amount, increase wages and still come out ahead.

You're right, a company doesn't owe anyone a living, but they owe them a fair wage for a hard days work. And cm's work their tails off.

amen!

 

[Mr. Morrow]

without getting into the politics or anything of the like, i am going to give my .02 cents.

I am entertained that people who complain about the declining guest experience in the parks are the same people defending Disney and their wages.

People have stated that "disney has every right to pay what they pay" and that is a correct statement.

HOWEVER. I DO NOT go to Disney for a Walmart or Burger King experience.
I DO NOT stay at a Disney Resort for a Motel 6 experience.

If you are going to be charging 4 & 5 Diamond prices, I expect 4 & 5 Diamond Service.

The same goes for theme parks. I am NOT going for a regional amusement park experience. These parks are being marketed and sold as a World Class life changing family experience, and they brand their customer service as legendary, and as part of the experience. So if I am going to be charged 80.00 a day per person, I expect the same level of service I would get a Ski Resort that costs the same.

So I have LONG argued that Disney should not be hiring people who are "walmart" caliber, and in order to do that, they need to pay more so they can get the quality of people who can provide the experience that people are being charged for.

I argue that Disney is actually robbing the customer, and in turn robbing the share holder of long term value by NOT paying it's Cast Members more.

I find this funny because if those wages went up a lot the guest experience would either be way more expensive or would just be cut.