News Disney World Cast Member unions to begin week of negotiations for wage increases, healthcare costs and more

[Lilofan]

What do you beg to differ? Everything I stated in my post is a fact.

- to get into Property Control/Cast Connection you must be a CM or accompanied by one
- it is against Disney policy (as a CM) to resell anything purchased there

To purchase merchandise with a CM discount, you must be a CM
- it is against Disneys policy to resell that merchandise, even if you’re just buying for a family member

All of those things are termable offenses

Against Disney policy to resell I understand , its not difficult to understand what was being sold at the flea market

 

[The Mom]

I beg to differ. I went to a flea market in Mt Dora a few years ago. There was a table that was staffed by a guy. He had for sale among many things Disney , chipped merchandise figurines . Does one think he bought what he was trying to resell he bought at a theme park gift shop? I think not.

But are you sure he was a current castmember? Posters have stated that CMs can purchase items at property control, but reselling them is a terminable offense. Either it was a former CM, or someone was taking a chance.

 

[Alanzo]

What do you beg to differ? Everything I stated in my post is a fact.

- to get into Property Control/Cast Connection you must be a CM or accompanied by one
- it is against Disney policy (as a CM) to resell anything purchased there

To purchase merchandise with a CM discount, you must be a CM
- it is against Disneys policy to resell that merchandise, even if you’re just buying for a family member

All of those things are termable offenses

Against Disney policy to resell I understand , its not difficult to understand what was being sold at the flea market

In your anecdote it is possible that the vendor in question obtained the merchandise through legitimate means, or that they were not a Disney cast member themselves. Therefore, the anecdote provided does not necessarily prove that Disney cast members can resell merchandise without risking being fired.

So I guess I beg to differ with your logical fallacy being a reasoned argument.

 

[Lilofan]

But are you sure he was a current castmember? Posters have stated that CMs can purchase items at property control, but reselling them is a terminable offense. Either it was a former CM, or someone was taking a chance.

My bet is someone taking their chance, 5 Pooh figurines each with a chip on each item, and that is just some what was for sale on the 3 tables the vendor had at the flea market.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Every several years the unions and company reach a compromise and the cast approve the contract, rinse and repeat every few years. So what's truly sad and insulting ? The cast voted after the unions convinced them to approve the contract presented to them every time contract time comes around ( after a few votes of course ).

I will tell you what's truly sad and insulting in my opinion.

The company says "Not a cent more" or something like that to its cast members for, it let's face it, what is the CASH COW for the company (the theme parks).

At the same time, to shift the focus, they give cast members a 50 percent discount on stuff they know they do not have the disposable income to make use of it.

"Unions and company reach a compromise", yea right.

The problem is, the folks that actually reach the "compromise", are making a lot more than $17 an hour. They just want to get a deal done, any deal done, they don't care about the folks on the front lines.

But we can agree to disagree.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I personally spoke with three realtors in Florida and one real estate broker for my reply. All who I have known personally for many years, who are licensed to practice their profession in the state of Florida, and whose primary source of income is real estate.

They're what some would call "expert witnesses".

Such a report as what you ask for doesn't exist in Florida, but you are free to pick apartment complexes at random in the state of Florida and contact them so you may ask what their income requirements are.

Again everything you just said isn’t evidence of any kind or anecdotal at best. You talked to a couple people. No one cares. Thats a small sample size as to not be very meaningful at all, leaving aside from an evidentiary standpoint would be inadmissible hearsay and not considered evidence at all.

Second just because your have a real estate license doesn’t make you an expert, either in the colloquial use of the word let alone as being qualified as an expert for evidence presentation. I know bartenders and cops that have real estate licenses that basically know how to pull up an LMS and that’s about it.

As to those reports not existing in Florida they most certainly do. Our Florida division both does developing and financing of single family buildings and does CM work building them. General market analysis for projected rental income projects are done up for every manages building we have ever done in florida, which includes prospective lessor profiles and target markets by earning capacity. The fact that people on this board might not have them, or if they work in that industry would be prohibited from sharing them on a public board isn’t that surprising. It doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

Hell the Palmento Law group, which is a primarily a tenants rights firm across Florida publishes data related to barriers to entry and potential landlord abuses, including preconditions to rentals pretty frequently. Full disclosure my dealing with them have been primarily Miami based but they frequently use statewide figures so I would be surprised if Orlando market wasn’t included.

So is there direct, compiled, and expert information available that could be presented on this issue? Absolutely. Would I expect that admissible direct and reliable evidence be presented on a public message board? No, this isn’t a court it’s not needed. But that doesn’t change the fact that what is being talked about here isn’t anything beyond hearsay and anecdotal.

 

[Lilofan]

I had to cosign both of my children's first apartments because they were just starting out and had no credit history.
When I got my first apartment no one had to cosign even though I didn't make 3X the rent, and really struggled a bit when my roommate moved away. But that was almost 50 years ago.

A number of years ago I moved into my first studio apt paying $300 per month include water before I bought my first home .I had no job. The apartment landlord said he felt good after talking to me that I would find a job quickly which I did. He gave me terms to pay 3 months in advance. I gave him $900 cash and we shook hands.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Iger seems to be the only hope in turning the ship on the right direction for WDW. I'm still waiting for that external list of non Disney executives being considered by the Disney Board for the CEO position. I don't think it even exists.

Iger is all about ensuring his legacy.

Let's hope whatever he does to ensure his legacy, trickles down as a better company for TWDC's customers and guests.

 

[Lilofan]

I will tell you what's truly sad and insulting in my opinion.

The company says "Not a cent more" or something like that to its cast members for, it let's face it, what is the CASH COW for the company (the theme parks).

At the same time, to shift the focus, they give cast members a 50 percent discount on stuff they know they do not have the disposable income to make use of it.

"Unions and company reach a compromise", yea right.

The problem is, the folks that actually reach the "compromise", are making a lot more than $17 an hour. They just want to get a deal done, any deal done, they don't care about the folks on the front lines.

But we can agree to disagree.

Yes there will be some that will be unhappy when the contract gets approved when it gets passed by the union members.

 

[mkt]

And in hopes in these times to draw more into Casting to be hired ( ie tattoos that no longer need to be hidden or disguised with tattoo make up. )

Yes.

 

[mkt]

Again everything you just said isn’t evidence of any kind or anecdotal at best. You talked to a couple people. No one cares. Thats a small sample size as to not be very meaningful at all, leaving aside from an evidentiary standpoint would be inadmissible hearsay and not considered evidence at all.

Second just because your have a real estate license doesn’t make you an expert, either in the colloquial use of the word let alone as being qualified as an expert for evidence presentation. I know bartenders and cops that have real estate licenses that basically know how to pull up an LMS and that’s about it.

Would three decades of experience in the field in three of the state's large metro areas qualify one as an expert? Sincere question, since you've decided to be a lawyer on a message board.

 

[celluloid]

Here are some logical fallacies in your argument:

1. Hasty Generalization: Your argument uses a single example of a potentially offensive tattoo ("bone daddy bad daddy" Jack Skellington Tattoo) to generalize that all tattoos could be seen as inappropriate by guests. This assumes that all tattoos are equal and may offend all guests, which is not necessarily true.
2. Slippery Slope: Your argument implies that allowing tattoos will lead to a situation where middle management must make subjective judgments about what is acceptable. This assumes that allowing tattoos will inevitably lead to more problematic situations, which may not be true.
3. Appeal to Tradition: Your argument suggests that dress codes exist because they have always been in place, and implies that this is the best solution to the problem of potentially offensive tattoos. This assumes that tradition is always the best approach, rather than considering new and potentially better solutions.

Here are some reasoned responses to your argument:

1. Hasty Generalization: It is important to recognize that tattoos come in many different forms, and not all tattoos are likely to offend guests. While some tattoos may be seen as inappropriate or offensive, it is not fair to generalize that all tattoos are equal and may offend all guests. Therefore, instead of outright banning tattoos, a more nuanced approach could be taken to address specific concerns.
2. Slippery Slope: Just because allowing tattoos may require middle management to make subjective judgments does not necessarily mean that all situations will be problematic. It is possible to set clear guidelines and expectations for acceptable tattoos, which could help minimize the number of subjective judgments that must be made. Furthermore, the potential benefits of allowing tattoos (e.g., promoting a more diverse and inclusive workplace) should also be considered.
3. Appeal to Tradition: While dress codes have traditionally been used to remove subjectivity, it is important to recognize that times and social norms change. What was considered unacceptable in the past may not be considered as such today, and vice versa. Therefore, it may be more appropriate to evaluate the merits of each individual policy or rule, rather than relying solely on tradition. Additionally, a more flexible approach to dress codes and appearance policies could be considered, which allows for some individuality and self-expression while still maintaining a professional appearance.

There, this is now settled.

Here are some logical fallacies in your argument:

1. Hasty Generalization: Your argument uses a single example of a potentially offensive tattoo ("bone daddy bad daddy" Jack Skellington Tattoo) to generalize that all tattoos could be seen as inappropriate by guests. This assumes that all tattoos are equal and may offend all guests, which is not necessarily true.
2. Slippery Slope: Your argument implies that allowing tattoos will lead to a situation where middle management must make subjective judgments about what is acceptable. This assumes that allowing tattoos will inevitably lead to more problematic situations, which may not be true.
3. Appeal to Tradition: Your argument suggests that dress codes exist because they have always been in place, and implies that this is the best solution to the problem of potentially offensive tattoos. This assumes that tradition is always the best approach, rather than considering new and potentially better solutions.

Here are some reasoned responses to your argument:

1. Hasty Generalization: It is important to recognize that tattoos come in many different forms, and not all tattoos are likely to offend guests. While some tattoos may be seen as inappropriate or offensive, it is not fair to generalize that all tattoos are equal and may offend all guests. Therefore, instead of outright banning tattoos, a more nuanced approach could be taken to address specific concerns.
2. Slippery Slope: Just because allowing tattoos may require middle management to make subjective judgments does not necessarily mean that all situations will be problematic. It is possible to set clear guidelines and expectations for acceptable tattoos, which could help minimize the number of subjective judgments that must be made. Furthermore, the potential benefits of allowing tattoos (e.g., promoting a more diverse and inclusive workplace) should also be considered.
3. Appeal to Tradition: While dress codes have traditionally been used to remove subjectivity, it is important to recognize that times and social norms change. What was considered unacceptable in the past may not be considered as such today, and vice versa. Therefore, it may be more appropriate to evaluate the merits of each individual policy or rule, rather than relying solely on tradition. Additionally, a more flexible approach to dress codes and appearance policies could be considered, which allows for some individuality and self-expression while still maintaining a professional appearance.

There, this is now settled.

It's not argument. What you just said is true in my post as well. All of those things are factual. They may not untrue.
Middle management is now responsible for harder calls that did not exist before.

Walt Disney World has arguably the most diverse audience of any place. This is why the "tradition" exists.

By the way, the course of training is still called Traditions, and they still teach the Disney Point.

Moderation in all things.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Yes there will be some that will be unhappy when the contract gets approved when it gets passed by the union members.

I hope the WDW cast members who are unhappy go up the road and get $17 at Universal while there are still openings.

Who knows? They may like it better there.

 

[Lilofan]

I hope the WDW cast members who are unhappy go up the road and get $17 at Universal while there are still openings.

Who knows? They may like it better there.

Who knows if the aura of playing in the park everyday if the CM wants to ( minus black out days ) and family and friends passes , cast discounts might be more appealing than working at Uni. Pros and cons of both companies.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Who knows if the aura of playing in the park everyday if the CM wants to ( minus black out days ) and family and friends passes , cast discounts might be more appealing than working at Uni. Pros and cons of both companies.

For the CM who is not worried about eating and living indoors and can actually take advantage of days in the park (and maybe even the 50 percent discount) is probably not a CM who even cares about the union negotiations.

It would be interesting to see the side-by-side comparison of WDW CM perks VS Universal team member perks.

 

[flynnibus]

Who knows if the aura of playing in the park everyday if the CM wants to ( minus black out days ) and family and friends passes , cast discounts might be more appealing than working at Uni. Pros and cons of both companies.

Can't afford to live... but can't give up those sweet merch discounts... oh the choices!!!

 

[mkt]

What do you beg to differ? Everything I stated in my post is a fact.

- to get into Property Control/Cast Connection you must be a CM or accompanied by one
- it is against Disney policy (as a CM) to resell anything purchased there

To purchase merchandise with a CM discount, you must be a CM
- it is against Disneys policy to resell that merchandise, even if you’re just buying for a family member

All of those things are termable offenses

Agreed, but this is one of those things that's harder for Disney to prove and is rarely enforced.

 

[celluloid]

Can't afford to live... but can't give up those sweet merch discounts... oh the choices!!!

It is silly to even think that would get that many to stay, as the pay increase Universal just gave would allow someone working 40 hours a week to live as they are and have a Pass to Universal, but also be able to afford a Pixie Pass to all four parks for themselves and family or friends, which is far more access than they could get from company.
They would also get Sea World and Busch Gardens most of the year as well.

 

[Lilofan]

Can't afford to live... but can't give up those sweet merch discounts... oh the choices!!!

You may or may not have heard a number of people in the USA are in debt. It is called
“Living above your means”. And believe it or not it affects the middle class also. We are a slaves to debt society .

 

[celluloid]

You may or may not have heard a number of people in the USA are in debt. It is called
“Living above your means”. And believe it or not it affects the middle class also. We are a slaves to debt society .

Wait, you think that people working full time front of the line at Disney are majority middle class? Not many are making enough to be considered that. American households earning as little as $47,189 and up to $141,568 are in the middle class.