News Disney World Cast Member unions to begin week of negotiations for wage increases, healthcare costs and more

[_caleb]

Of course they will. Because all that ever happens when these type of wage disputes come up is the cost is then passed down to the consumer. There's no chance the executives will erode their margins and bonus potential.

That’s not inevitable. Executive compensation is not strictly market-driven, it’s also values-driven.

BTW, so, too are stock dividends.

 

[erasure fan1]

You must be 100% against Disney+ then… because the money lost from Disney+ has had more effect on raising prices in the parks than any raise in pay ever has or will.

I did cancel my subscription. I wasn't talking just about Disney, but all businesses.

 

[kingdead]

we do (for the most part). basic human dignity is actually not expressed through compensation IMO Everyone to a poster has said that every cm regardless of pay or position deserves, respect and a safe, non toxic work environment. they all deserve and should never be subjected to abuse from guest or fellow workers. sadly it does happen.

Next, fair compensation. generally fair compensation is a product of a number of things. One of them is the value society has deemed for the position. whether or not folks here like the terms "unskilled" and "low wage", the reality is those are what we have deemed certain positions. so no I don't think a unskilled fast food worker automatically deserves a certain salary simply because the executive made a bunch of money. It is not a product of spreading the money around "equally".

No one here is arguing that the cm's shouldn't be compensated in accordance with the position and the quality of their work. what I argue against is this nonsense of just because you show up every day, and sorry there use to be a time where showing up is the very least you were expected to do. now it seems like coming to work when you are supposed to be there is some type of major achievement, that you are entitled to a standard of living someone deems acceptable.

the cm's will get more money, a contract will be agreed upon and dollars to donuts they will say it's not enough. Sadly instead of saying maybe these are not jobs I can support a family on, they will again blame greedy Disney.

I think that "living wage" might be confusing people here--nobody expects a burger flipper to have the same standard of living as a Harvard professor, a neurosurgeon, or the person who owns the burger franchise. However, if you're working you should be able to afford food and shelter. Your own room, three meals a day. Not your own house that you own outright but not sleeping in a van, either.

As for the young kids who are supposed to be holding down those entry-level jobs, there was a huge jump in prices during COVID and a bunch of people moved to Florida and drove up rent--so if you're a kid, that fun lifestyle where you can live with a few housemates and party for a while with your CM pals might now be out of reach. Do you really want to share a room and spend all your money on gas commuting an hour a day just to work at Disney World when you can get similar money somewhere closer? Unless you are the kind of person who has multiple visible tattoos of Jack Skellington making love to Elsa, probably not!

 

[RobWDW1971]

As a company, Disney should look longer term than immediate labor costs. A park full of experienced, knowledgeable, happy, guest-relations-minded CMs would allow them to sell the best experience possible at the best value long-term.

Considering they continue to lower the standards, apparently they disagree.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I think that "living wage" might be confusing people here--nobody expects a burger flipper to have the same standard of living as a Harvard professor, a neurosurgeon, or the person who owns the burger franchise. However, if you're working you should be able to afford food and shelter. Your own room, three meals a day. Not your own house that you own outright but not sleeping in a van, either.

As for the young kids who are supposed to be holding down those entry-level jobs, there was a huge jump in prices during COVID and a bunch of people moved to Florida and drove up rent--so if you're a kid, that fun lifestyle where you can live with a few housemates and party for a while with your CM pals might now be out of reach. Do you really want to share a room and spend all your money on gas commuting an hour a day just to work at Disney World when you can get similar money somewhere closer? Unless you are the kind of person who has multiple visible tattoos of Jack Skellington making love to Elsa, probably not!

But don't you see the impossibility of that?? You just mentioned the problem outside forces that the business any business has no control over can cause the cost of living to go out of control. Never mind Disney, I can't imagine how a small business or restaurant is supposed to keep up with that?
At one time wasn't the object to move out of these low paying jobs?? So you're a burger flipper and you want a 35k-40k a year and never enters your mind to say "you know I can't live on this lousy salary, let me make a plan to get something that pays more".

SMH God bless them, it took me less than a year to figure out sales clerking at a major retailer was not going to support me in nyc and never did I think Macy's or Walmart "owed" me anything.

Okay I'm going to bow out, I both sides lots of luck.

 

[_caleb]

Considering they continue to lower the standards, apparently they disagree.

And guess who can help change their minds? Us!

 

[_caleb]

But don't you see the impossibility of that?? You just mentioned the problem outside forces that the business any business has no control over can cause the cost of living to go out of control. Never mind Disney, I can't imagine how a small business or restaurant is supposed to keep up with that?

There’s a reason folks around here routinely point to quick service restaurants like Chick-fil-a and In-N-Out as examples of how higher pay can be part of successful business. These places “compete” with McDonald’s, Burger King, etc. though they pay, on average, much higher wages. The result isn’t just higher revenue per store, but also: greater quality (perceived), greater customer satisfaction, higher customer loyalty/return, lower employee churn, less spent on recruitment/hiring/training, less spent on marketing, less need for discounts/promotions, and overall better business.

At one time wasn't the object to move out of these low paying jobs?? So you're a burger flipper and you want a 35k-40k a year and never enters your mind to say "you know I can't live on this lousy salary, let me make a plan to get something that pays more".

It’s sort of both—people should earn more responsibly (and more pay) as they increase their skill. But the “entry level” can’t stay the same while the cost of everything else increases. If consumers demand low prices AND high-quality customer service, wages will go up.

SMH God bless them, it took me less than a year to figure out sales clerking at a major retailer was not going to support me in nyc and never did I think Macy's or Walmart "owed" me anything.

Employment is a relationship. The employer owes the employee a fair wage for the work done. If the employer doesn’t treat the employee well, they’re not just disrespecting the employee, they’re also disrespecting the customer.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Why not demand good pay for CMs as part of the experience you’re consuming?

Disney already pays about 40% more than Florida minimum wage, that’s already good compared to the other options available to most CMs in the area. I was shocked when I heard the CMs turned down an offer that would have resulted in $20 minimum in a couple years, $20 for selling popcorn and operating rides is beyond good, it’s absolutely amazing for the job requirements.

 

[flynnibus]

You cannot complain about poor experiences at the parks or poor customer service while also arguing against better CM compensation—they are directly related.

You're confusing two different things. He didn't argue CMs can't make more than they make now - he's pointing out they should be compensated based on a value and/or skillset they deliver.. not based on some individual's needs.

"It's about what that individual offers in a skillset to an employer versus what the employer is willing to pay for that skillset. Not for that individual."

Stop trying to say someone against artibitrary living wage standards is against raises for CMs. Those are not the same arguments.

 

[_caleb]

Disney already pays about 40% more than Florida minimum wage, that’s already good compared to the other options available to CMs in the area. I was shocked when I heard the CMs turned down an offer that would have resulted in $20 minimum in a couple years, $20 for selling popcorn and operating rides is beyond good, it’s absolutely amazing for the job requirements.

As a fan and frequent guest, I don’t want Disney’s customer service to be on par with (or even slightly above) the rest of Central Florida’s. I want it to be world class. They’re not competing with Walmart, or even Universal; they’re competing with all the other places I might go for an amazing (and expensive) family vacation.

If Disney paid much better wages, high-quality CMs would move to Orlando, stay there, buy houses, and spend their money in the local economy. This would be better for me, for them, for the competition, and for the neighbors.

 

[flynnibus]

No, “we” haven’t decided this, big corporations have. And they’ve convinced you (and lots of other people) that it’s true. Disney doesn’t HAVE to treat any job as “unskilled” labor. That’s a choice they make to try to save a buck. If custodial staff were also security, or if attraction operations were cross-trained as guest relations and entertainment, they wouldn’t be treated as (or compensated as) “unskilled.”

Lol.. know why they don't do this? Because that person can't be in all those places at the same time. That person also has limited availability and capacity to work. Ultimately it is more beneficial to have multiple employees than to try to have superheros that can do anything. This is not a Disney thing... this is labor management period.

And training a person to do three unskilled jobs doesn't somehow make it into a skilled position.. it just makes it so less people would be successful at it.

If you're upset that work can be broken down into simpler tasks that can be readily trained to people with little to no experience instead of requiring higher skilled people to do work... sorry, you will never win that effort trying to hold back efficiency.

You’ve made this clear. But in choosing this philosophy, you’re also choosing to enrich the upper-level management and investors in the company at your expense. You’re willingly paying them more to pay CMs less. That seems like a strange way to live, and not very sustainable.

If we don’t set a floor, there will not be a floor.

The issue is the WORKERS should be setting the floor with their willingness to work. It's like every sale... there needs to be a seller AND a buyer. The workers are the buyers into the job the employers offer. The workers are also competing with other workers and the employers are competing with other employers. Wages get depressed because workers get more desperate when they haven't enabled themselves to compete for something more. The more people that do that, the weaker the market will be for those workers because there is more competition for the same jobs. It spirals down when workers couldn't get the opportunity to improve themselves in the first place.

But as we've seen all over... there are plenty of better paying jobs or jobs that could allow people to do more than what Disney is offering. So it's in the power of the workers to show the employer they will demand more... by actually moving past those jobs.

But the union model isn't setup to do that. Fighting through your union is simply a means to fight to get more for doing the same job. You aren't actually threatening to leave... and why ultimately it's a weaker point of leverage vs a market rejecting the pay.

 

[mkt]

I live in Miami, Florida. The cost of living down here is even worse. It’s abusive.

It's the most rent burdened city in the US (well, second if you count Manhattan as a separate city from the rest of NYC).

We left last year, as did many of our friends, due to being priced out.

 

[_caleb]

You're confusing two different things. He didn't argue CMs can't make more than they make now - he's pointing out they should be compensated based on a value and/or skillset they deliver.. not based on some individual's needs.

"It's about what that individual offers in a skillset to an employer versus what the employer is willing to pay for that skillset. Not for that individual."

Stop trying to say someone against artibitrary living wage standards is against raises for CMs. Those are not the same arguments.

That’s fair. I actually wan’t trying to reinforce anyone else’s argument, I was taking the conversation in a bit of a different direction. But I think it’s all related, because “value of a skill set” is not something that is set automatically or determined solely by unseen market forces. Value isn’t strictly monetary, it’s also philosophical.

This is why sweat shops and child labor have been brought up. If we let the market do its thing, businesses will look for the cheapest labor possible. Without any ethical standards, business will exploit people to save money. We (the consumers) can value something beyond just monetary savings, we can consider quality of service/product, treatment of workers, health, happiness, etc.

 

[eliza61nyc]

There’s a reason folks around here routinely point to quick service restaurants like Chick-fil-a and In-N-Out as examples of how higher pay can be part of successful business. These places “compete” with McDonald’s, Burger King, etc. though they pay, on average, much higher wages. The result isn’t just higher revenue per store, but also: greater quality (perceived), greater customer satisfaction, higher customer loyalty/return, lower employee churn, less spent on recruitment/hiring/training, less spent on marketing, less need for discounts/promotions, and overall better business.

It’s sort of both—people should earn more responsibly (and more pay) as they increase their skill. But the “entry level” can’t stay the same while the cost of everything else increases. If consumers demand low prices AND high-quality customer service, wages will go up.

Employment is a relationship. The employer owes the employee a fair wage for the work done. If the employer doesn’t treat the employee well, they’re not just disrespecting the employee, they’re also disrespecting the customer.

Just and FYI
Chic fil a in Philadelphia, full time "back of house" team member ? 13.00-16.00 hour
Lol definitely not "living" wages in Philly


So again what's the problem? I did love this very prominent line on their career page.

A job at Chick-fil-A is more than just a job. It's a stepping-stone to a successful future in the world of business.

Translation: try not to be a back of house team member for 10 years.

 

[mkt]

Sure - but we are bouncing between different discussions like they are the same - and they aren't.

That's a function of the internet.

The thread should be this:

CM's voted overwhelmingly against the contract Disney offered them, CM's are now working without a contract.

Reply "wow... Americans voted overwhelmingly for something? That never happens"

/thread

Instead it devolved into whataboutism, an argument about the declining standards, about cost of living, about "my day"... and none of it is relevant or important. It all ignores the fact that an overwhelming majority of CMs voted one way, and no matter what anyone on this thread says, it will not change that fact.

 

[Trauma]

It's the most rent burdened city in the US (well, second if you count Manhattan as a separate city from the rest of NYC).

We left last year, as did many of our friends, due to being priced out.

I’m surprised rents are so high considering housing seems very affordable. According to google the average home price is less than 600k.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Disney already pays about 40% more than Florida minimum wage, that’s already good compared to the other options available to most CMs in the area.

Chipotle and Chik-fil-a in the Orlando area start at $15 an hour (based on a quick search).

Chipotle offers free food, holidays off, and health insurance.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Chipotle and Chik-fil-a in the Orlando area start at $15 an hour (based on a quick search).

Chipotle offers free food, holidays off, and health insurance.

Is that considered “good” for the job requirements?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Is that considered “good” for the job requirements?

You said what Disney pays is good compared to other options. I pointed out that other options pay similar and provide value in other ways.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Chipotle and Chik-fil-a in the Orlando area start at $15 an hour (based on a quick search).

Chipotle offers free food, holidays off, and health insurance.

So again what's the problem?? Chipotle wins a little because of the benefits so everybody seems to be bouncing around the same pay grade.