Disney Springs Plans: What do they mean?

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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
This is true. The question is the scope of what will be changed. I've been told that very little in the way of BIG things will change. So, while these plans may not be 100% what gets done, it's a lot closer to say 96% than 52%.
And it's not like any of these designs are going to be innovative (structurally, technologically, etc.) in any manner. So it's not like changing documents is going to be a difficult process. Yes, there will be the decorations, but at the end of the day it will almost all be speculative retail space which has to be easy to change for different tenants.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That was Paul Yeargin and he was despised by most people. His opinion was not representative of TWDC.

Paul may have said that as well ... but George Kalogridis told it to the LA Times.

He regretted it almost as soon as the words left his mouth from what certain Spirits know.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I saw it at the Disney Parks Blog meet up. My review: The film is ever bit the charlatan and husker that the wizards professes to be: All Style, No Substance. Its visually stunning but the acting & the script fall flat.

UGH!!!

Our first MAGICal review ain't so MAGICal, after all.

I actually haven't had a chance to read any mainstream, so yours is the first I've read period. And I admit that I worried that it would be style and no substance.

And didn't know the DPB had another meet up, I guess I don't dare look at the list of attendees.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Most companies have capital budgets that have to be justified. While we might not like the thought, Disney is a for profit company, not just a creator of Magic. That said, capital spent of DTD can be easily run through financial models to determine ROI based on different scenarios. Risks can be evaluated based on historical data, trends, and research. All of this is done in business concepts that are easily understood by senior management. The results can also be directly measured by the incremental revenue DTD generates. The same is true for building resorts or DVC. Each can be modeled, justified, and ROI tracked independently.

Now contrast that with the parks. What is the ROI for better maintenance of a ride? While preventive maintenance usually costs much less than corrective maintenance, that may not be true if work requires regular closure of rides to fix cosmetic issues. At what point do you hit diminishing returns. What is the ROI of adding a ride to an existing park? While it might add capacity, does the reduced wait times translate directly to increased attendance? Will adding a new themed land draw in new crowds? The fact is, there are allot more unknowns and bigger risks associated with investing in the parks. From a business/financial perspective it is much harder to make a soundly justified decision.

None of this is to justify not spending money on the parks, but the reality is that investing in retail inside and outside of the parks helps to generate the revenue that can then support investment back into the parks.

So whether you like the plans for DTD or not, it's likely easier to secure capital for this project.

Lastly, people tend to think that there is a fixed amount of money available for improvements and that every dollar spent on DTD means one less spent on the parks. That is not necessarily the case. Capital spending is all based on ROI. If a company can invest additional dollars and expect a minimum return based on an reasonable level of risk, it will. An E-ticket ride gets green lit when someone makes a convincing business case. The other complexity is how much does "plussing" a ride add to your return or reduce risk? This creates the issue of doing things "on the cheap". But would spending more money create larger returns?

So I am not trying to justify any decisions made by TDO, but to point out that it is not enough to say Disney should invest more money into X. That has to be backed by what return will that generate for the company. Then, within each project, how much investment is needed to maximize the return or minimize the risk. It's real easy to make these decisions when you are a fan and are not accountable for the results. Try taking your entire life savings and investing it into a single stock for the next 20 years.

I agree with most of what you are saying. This project is a no brainer when it comes to ROI. 3rd party vendors locking in multi-year leases guarantees a healthy return. It will be successful and is probably long overdue. When I say that I would rather see the money spent on the parks and rides its not because I think that the money for this project is being taken away from the parks, but the company doesn't have unlimited funds so money and time spent on a 3 year overhaul of DTD will indirectly prevent or delay projects in the parks.

At the end of the day I don't know many people who go places on vacation just to shop. Not sure any level of theming or cool concepts will get someone to go to Orlando just for DTD. Disney Springs (or whatever it ends up being called) is a side trip or a diversion from the real reason to visit WDW, the parks. In the past maybe some people went to WDW just for PI (probably mostly locals) but most just saw it as an ancillary benefit. I loved the place, but I wouldn't have gone to Orlando just for PI alone. If you are that excited about clubs, places like South Beach or Las Vegas come to mind.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You...you...you !

Oh c'mon, you can do soooo much better than that.

Just type WDW1974 into Twitter and you'll get all sorts of much better putdowns.

Now, would you like hash browns or grits with that breakfast sandwich? BWAHHHHHHAHAHHAHHAHAHH.....
 

Cody5242

Well-Known Member
So...you're "THAT" guy, eh?
What do you mean that guy? I just think its stupid to think it would make less than 25 mill. I'm into the whole entire box office and I know the kind of film it is and I think it will open way north of that. Will it make a profit? I think a little bit but not enough for their to be a sequel if they are planning one
 

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
Paul may have said that as well ... but George Kalogridis told it to the LA Times.

He regretted it almost as soon as the words left his mouth from what certain Spirits know.
Let's cut to the chase. GK said that at the behest of Cynthia Harriss. That entire concept (DCA being a "super" draw) got its start with Yeargin. Remember that Yeargin and Harriss were tight from their old Disney Store days. You know as well as I do that VP's are instructed to say a lot of stupid things.
 

Monsterfan99

Active Member
Any chance this whole thing is about more than just keeping people on property or international visitors? What about all the people who just live in an area within a reasonable driving distance? Maybe this isn't meant to be anything more than a mall - to some WDW guests this super fancy outdoor mall may be like the one they have at home but what if Disney is building this to be the super fancy outdoor mall for those who live there in addition to getting whatever business they can from people on property?

If you're a local do you really have incentive to go to DTD for Disney themed merchandise and stores? Maybe once in a while but what if you need to go to an Apple Store or a GAP or whatever they're going to put in here? You go to whatever local mall there is but if you had the opportunity to go to the fancy outdoor mall to go to those stores (and get your favorite snack from Goofy's Candy Co) wouldn't you pick that over the local everyday run of the mill mall?
As a local, there is zero chance I would ever pick DTD over any mall in the local area. The local malls, at their worst, have a crowded food court and a couple of EVCs. DTD, on the other hand, is a mess to walk through (minus the west side) and enough evc's to dodge you would think it was combat training. The insanity that is parking at DTD is the icing on the cake and as shown by the parking garage at the outlet mall, they makes things a lot worse. Nothing like waiting 20 minutes while Joe Sixpack and his family pile crap into a rental Van while the person in front of you sits there waiting for that space on the first level.

I would honestly question the sanity of any local who would pick Disney Springs over a mall that has the same store.
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
There has never been a parking problem at DtD. Years ago the DtD buses used to run a route through the various parking lots to pick up passengers. The first stop was always the marlet place and the last stop was on the west side. After several years they eliminated the west side bus stop due to lack of use by passengers. The same is still true today. Lot number 5 (as it is now called) always has plenty of empty parking spaces.

The vehicle turnover in the other lots is so frequent that spaces open up constantly. In short, they don't need a multilevel parking garage with the current visitation the area now experiences. I think we can all agree that Disney is a master of crowd control and crowd movement. If they propose to build a parking garage at the DtD location then they must expect a significant increase (double or triple?) in visitation with their new plan. The crowds at DtD are rather brisk now and any increase would just make me less likely to visit.


Sorry I have to disagree. Not only has there been a parking problem at Downtown Disney but believe it or not this is NOT the first time a parking structure has been proposed for the complex. Parking has been a problem since the addition of West Side and re-branding to "Downtown Disney." Have you ever had to park in the overflow lot across the street by Team Disney? This was an emergency quick fix due to bad planning and not a part of the master plan.

I am not saying a parking garage is the answer but I do remember there was a time when Eisner wanted the "world's most unique parking structure." This was to be part of an overall capital investment combined with "MYST" island. No the projects were not related in any way but the budgets were combined along with a few other items. Neither made it past the cuts...
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Speaking of waffles........

Are you saying he's waffling on AC (i.e. at some point indicated it would come back) or is he waffling on his love of Waffle House (i.e. Mr. WDW1974 posted an 18 page WDW1974 style diatribe about the evils of Waffle House back in aught2 on his WaffleHouseKills.net website which would indicate he would never deign to eat there)...I'm sure he never claim that WoM was coming back though I sure miss it too.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Are you an idiot? Jack the giant slayer made 27 mill and that's considered a family film. Oz has that going for it and its a Disney film and a well known property. You just won idiot comment of the day. Can't wait to see your reaction once the films final numbers are out for the weekend

Dude, chill. Until very recently, a LOT of people, including those in the film business, thought Oz would tank. But the ad campaign appears to be working, probably because the trailers have been designed to invoke the 1939 film. Never underestimate the power of nostalgia...now let's just hope the film is actually good.
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
OK, I am sorry. The name still is stupid, especially compared with "Downtown Disney" -- which conjures up exactly what it means to be: shopping and excitement.

Disney Springs sounds more like the geiser at the Wilderness Lodge.
OK, I am sorry. The name still is stupid, especially compared with "Downtown Disney" -- which conjures up exactly what it means to be: shopping and excitement.

Disney Springs sounds more like the geiser at the Wilderness Lodge.

Downtown Disney is much better than one alternative which was considered...."The Disney District"
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Let's cut to the chase. GK said that at the behest of Cynthia Harriss. That entire concept (DCA being a "super" draw) got its start with Yeargin. Remember that Yeargin and Harriss were tight from their old Disney Store days. You know as well as I do that VP's are instructed to say a lot of stupid things.

Largely, true.

But in this case, I know first-hand, George could have worded things differently.

I am truly amazed that not once in his recent tenure as DLR Prez did Al Lutz bring it up. The dude has selective amnesia when he has a mancrush on a Disney exec.

George and I spoke about said interview a few times, once right after, and he hoped that no one would have recalled that. Even if DCA 1.0 had been all that Disney was trying to sell it as, no exec should have ever uttered those words about 'Walt's little park' ... again, all about knowing your audience.
 
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