Disney Springs Plans: What do they mean?

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RandySavage

Well-Known Member
Thought it was interesting that a pic of the Forum Shops (at Caesar's LV) was posted earlier, because it helps to isolate the definitions of retail theme-ing, decorating, and what the possibilities and limitations are for DTD going forward. The Forum (and Paris, Paris, and once Desert Passage) is a shopping mall elaborately decorated/designed to evoke Classical Rome, but it is populated by the typical or upscale third party shops.

For a retail area to be "themed" (evoke a place/transport through time/tell a story), obviously the architecture is a key component. But I've found that the built environment is necessary but not sufficient. The interior details, the merchandise and the sales-people are also key, because without the latter completing the story, it's just a decorated mall.

At their apex, Main Street U.S.A.s were themed environments to a high degree because they were a collection of specialty shops (a tobacconist, a bank, an auto showroom, a magic shop, a book store, a camera shop) and inbetweens (a penny arcade, a working cinema, a fire house) as one might find in a romanticized turn-of-the-century Small Town America. There were always the commercial aspects, selling Disney merch, but it did not overwhelm the theme of the land. Similarly, the Adventureland shops (Timbuktu Traders) would sell unusual, exotic merch and enhanced the theme of the land; Frontierland: western trinkets, etc.
XLTF%2BCA.jpg

Woodcarvers Shop

Then, as we all know, came a long, tragic period where specialty shops and unique merchandise were eliminated or minimized across Disney theme parks, and plush, DisChannel DVDs, bright t-shirts, and all manner of generic items, no matter their appropriateness to the area's sense of place took over modern adjustable, wheeled shelves. An insidious change that poisoned theme in general:
7974419516_0d041e933d_b.jpg

Adventureland Paris with Princess Dresses shoved into the entrance path

I thought themed retail was extinct.

Then came a couple bright spots. Hogsmeade showed that the old model - where Show was tantamount, even in retail - can be very profitable. Interestingly, when the new Buena Vista St opened at DCA with windows full of historic, unique displays, salespeople found park-goers asking about the cool stuff in the windows, but the only thing stocked was the standard DisneyStore merch. The historic displays were promptly altered to show the DCA T-shirts sold inside.


Coming back to DTD, without some kind of radical shift in strategy at the top (e.g. eliminating the 3rd Party Vendor model or making vendors conform - inside the shops - to the imagined theme), the most that can be hoped for/expected is a very nice environment, with some interesting things to look at (locomotive, 'natural' springs), maybe a few special dining venues (Tiki Sam's) and some entertainers. I'd be fine with that if the parks would miraculously revert to actual themed-retail, and let DTD be a nice, Disney outdoor mall.

In a perfect world, I think there are ways - expensive ones - to take DTD far beyond a Lifestyle Center and create an 'actual-themed' district (as Main St or World Showcase or Port of Entry were actual-themed areas emphasizing retail and dining).
 

PeterAlt

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid the Iger team has lost its momentum concerning WDW. Under Eisner, WDW growth was EXPLOSIVE! Now, is like they forgot how to build things...
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Bogus streak. The Hawks have 3 losses. The real record is 35 games UNBEATEN to start a season (of course that was back when games ended in a tie). Plus Kane should be a Flyer. Damn coin toss...
The Flyers streak was in the middle of the season, not at the beginning. Plus, the Blackhawks' only losses have been in the shootout, so they would have been ties in the old system anyway. It would be different if they were like 13-0-9, but they're 19-0-3. Pretty impressive.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else having the same problem as me when they try to read the backstory for "Disney Springs"? I start reading and I swear by the time I make it to "brave pioneers of Florida" or blah blah blah, I slump in my chair, my eyes roll back in my head and my hand starts involuntarily moving the mouse. By the time I come to, I'm looking at lolcats. Maybe a driver issue?

@raven24, you've already been to Downtown Disney in FL, you just went to it in Anaheim. They're really the same thing, IMO, unless you're gonna go to Cirque. Just imagine DtD Anaheim with 3x as big with most all of the extra space filled up by more third party shops and restaurants. DtD in Anaheim cherry-picked a lot of the best parts of the Orlando version: World of Disney, House of Blues, Lego, Earl of Sandwich, Rainforest (haven't been there in a long time, but I still think it's a draw), plus ESPN sorta lifted from Boardwalk. Then they took all that and put it right next to the parks instead of either a long bus ride or parking lot slough away from most of the rest of property. Imagine if TDA built Downtown Disney on the strawberry fields... would you really bother to go there much? Wolfgang Puck Express is pretty good (I think you can find Wolfgang other places in CA, though!) and T-Rex is pretty cool. And I will walk through the Christmas shop. That about sums up DtD for me.

Time to go check out this new backstory for Disney Springs.
h318F62E9
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else having the same problem as me when they try to read the backstory for "Disney Springs"? I start reading and I swear by the time I make it to "brave pioneers of Florida" or blah blah blah, I slump in my chair, my eyes roll back in my head and my hand starts involuntarily moving the mouse. By the time I come to, I'm looking at lolcats. Maybe a driver issue?

/quote]



Agreed. Not only is the backstory uninspired, it's boring to boot. I'm still of the mind it was the architectural firm who came up with it and not Disney.

Between those awful 2013 WDW logos and this backstory, is there anyone left at Disney with any sense of creativity left?
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
Is anyone else having the same problem as me when they try to read the backstory for "Disney Springs"? I start reading and I swear by the time I make it to "brave pioneers of Florida" or blah blah blah, I slump in my chair, my eyes roll back in my head and my hand starts involuntarily moving the mouse. By the time I come to, I'm looking at lolcats. Maybe a driver issue?

Time to go check out this new backstory for Disney Springs.

Your not wrong, Disney is obsessed with Story and details, I miss the Disney where details didn't mean "let's create these clocks with paint brushes for hands" but was more of "oh during the summer the storms are kinda bad. Let us create an area which is covered to allow guests to go into different buildings without getting wet,using a retractable roof system".

I do yearn for the Disney details which helped guests, and not just there for guests to see a Mickey head on a planter
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Your not wrong, Disney is obsessed with Story and details, I miss the Disney where details didn't mean "let's create these clocks with paint brushes for hands" but was more of "oh during the summer the storms let us create an area which is covered to allow guests to go into different buildings without getting wet,using a retractable roof system".

I do yearn for the Disney details which helped guests, and not just there for guests to see a Mickey head on a planter
Thinking about how people will actually use something instead of just making a hidden Mickey in it... that's good design! Solving your problems before you have them; I feel like WDW used to brag about that more in a way I can't quite quantify.

I was flipping through Jeff Kurtti's Since the World Began the other day and there was a little blurb about the purple/black/red road signs and how they went through this whole design process and got this big design firm to help and how they simplified down to the "Epcot Resorts Area" idea and yada yada yada... that's good design. I wonder what would happen today? Disembodied Mickey arm arrows everywhere?
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
Thinking about how people will actually use something instead of just making a hidden Mickey in it... that's good design! Solving your problems before you have them; I feel like WDW used to brag about that more in a way I can't quite quantify.

I was flipping through Jeff Kurtti's Since the World Began the other day and there was a little blurb about the purple/black/red road signs and how they went through this whole design process and got this big design firm to help and how they simplified down to the "Epcot Resorts Area" idea and yada yada yada... that's good design. I wonder what would happen today? Disembodied Mickey arm arrows everywhere?

It is also a good design detail. Which is exactly what isn't happening today, like Fastpass was introduced to encourage more shopping, not fixing a complaint guests had. Fastpass+ is designed to fix a system which didn't work in the beginning. Then Magic Bands aren't designed to help guests - just in place for Disney to know where to put out the popcorn cart.
 

dcibrando

Well-Known Member
Parking at DtD was only a problem back in the old days when the buses still ran direct routes to the parks. As a result a lot of locals and off site guests parked at DtD free and rode the buses for free in order to avoid the parking fees at the parks. When WDW revamped the bus transportation, they specifically cut all direct routes from DtD to the parks and that solved the DtD parking problem.

The reason why people park in the Team Disney lot is because it's closer to the Market Place than two thirds of the DtD parking lots on the West Side.

And then they created a problem with people riding the SSR busses from the parks which fills up that resorts busses. Trust me in this. Seen if every time I've stayed there and it's getting worse
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
John Carter opened in this same slot at $25M-$30M and it was the disaster to end all disasters (supposedly). Oz will get more just because it's an Oz film and the marketing is trying to remind everyone of the MGM film.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
Have you ever had to park in the overflow lot across the street by Team Disney? This was an emergency quick fix due to bad planning and not a part of the master plan.

New Year's Eve--not early, either, had been at EPCOT first--parked without issue behind Cirque. Could easily have fit a couple hundred more cars back there without resorting to parking on the grass ala EPCOT during F&W.

Not the most convenient place to run into Earl for lunch or grab a last minute gift at WoD but nothing I've seen of the blueprints implies the parking garage will be any easier. (First comment my friend said upon seeing them: "Wait, I can't exit the garage on the Earl side?"). Throw in the fact that most WDW guests who drive are suburbanites who hate parking garages--again, Pointe Orlando, Premium Outlet Mall--this has the potential to be an expensive white elephant. Would be cheaper to just clone a WoD and Earl of Sandwich on the West Side, spread the crowds that way.

Also, haven't seen this mentioned, but at busier times of the year BVD is a mess with traffic leaving by 5 separate exits. How bad will this be when there is just one line of cars turning left?
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Are you saying he's waffling on AC (i.e. at some point indicated it would come back) or is he waffling on his love of Waffle House (i.e. Mr. WDW1974 posted an 18 page WDW1974 style diatribe about the evils of Waffle House back in aught2 on his WaffleHouseKills.net website which would indicate he would never deign to eat there)...I'm sure he never claim that WoM was coming back though I sure miss it too.

I just keep promoting the idea of someone bringing in a waffle stand to DTD that sells the real deal. I am convinced it would make billions.

It should look like this.....

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...E1F2A09677743B469557ED8FC5885&selectedIndex=4
 

rael ramone

Well-Known Member
Maybe, just maybe, the folks at Disney could step up and dream just a WEE bit bigger than "Disney Burger." You know, fill the Disney owned-and-operated spaces with unique, mind-blowing, one-of-a-kind experiences?

Or am I underestimating the sheer magical power and potential of Disney Burger?

You're not psyched for Disney Burger? Just take the same burgers served property wide, with the same toppings that you can get at Cosmic Rays, and give each burger a character name (why use IP for attractions when you can name a burger after them). All with Cockerell Fries, of course.
 
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