Disney Springs Plans: What do they mean?

[Bolna]

That may be true but WDW attracts a lot of international guests that would never visit your local mall.

And I am sure that the Brits will be thrilled to find a Topshop in Orlando.

I know indeed many people who do quite a lot of shopping when they travel to the US - but I always get the impression that it is the outlet malls where they spend the largest junk of their money.

Also, the willingness of the international guests to spend money does depend very much on exchange rate as well. Which is something that will fluctuate over the years. At the moment the dollar is rather cheap for many people, but who knows how that will be like in 5 years. So building malls with a view especially to international guests might not be the best bet...

 

[jme]

I do wonder how well this will work as folks here aren't used to parking in them and I can one person holding up traffic for someone to fill up their SUV and leave on Level 2 when Level 4 has 543 empty spaces.

Perhaps they could implement a "Smart Parking" system like they have at BWI airport:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech...ystems-make-it-easier-to-find-a-parking-space

Basically, the entrance to each level has a digital sign that tells you how many open spaces there are (factoring in people that decided to enter that level but have yet to park), letting you know if you should venture in or continue up. Once you've chosen your level, green arrows at every aisle (along with a number) tell you how many spaces are open. Once in an aisle, green/red lights let you easily spot the space.

It's super efficient and there is no racing to spots/waiting for someone to back out (at least not at BWI) - sounds perfect for somewhere that will get a lot of parking traffic in an area unfamiliar with the structures.

 

[Lexxweb]

Nothing is official until it's official.

 

[dcibrando]

the more I see and hear about this plan... the more I'm starting to REALLY like this.

 

[djlaosc]

And I am sure that the Brits will be thrilled to find a Topshop in Orlando.

I know indeed many people who do quite a lot of shopping when they travel to the US - but I always get the impression that it is the outlet malls where they spend the largest junk of their money.

Also, the willingness of the international guests to spend money does depend very much on exchange rate as well. Which is something that will fluctuate over the years. At the moment the dollar is rather cheap for many people, but who knows how that will be like in 5 years. So building malls with a view especially to international guests might not be the best bet...

That's what I was saying - as a Brit - "Topshop - big deal" - according to Wikipedia, we have 319 in the UK, and I have 10 available to me in an area less than 25miles away to me - never go to them (Topman) though - I don't like their clothes.

But, looking at Wikipedia, there are only 4 Topshops in the US (Chicago, New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles), and you can buy their clothes in Nordstrom (19 stores) as well - so it would seem to be more of a big deal for WDW to have one than what I, as a Brit, would think.

And, as for the exchange rate - it's getting worse for us all the time (it seems) - the rates that I can get now ($1.46-$1.48) are the same as the interbank rate was September 12th 2001 (I think - and so the interbank rate will be around £1:$1.50 at the moment) - add on the taxes and surcharges that we are being charged to fly, the cuts at airports to increase our wait at immigration, airlines cancelling flights/pulling out of Florida means that they can charge more to fly (supply/demand), and the reduction of discounts - will all mean that UK attendance should be going down.

And, because of all of this, we are all waiting to see if free dining is going to be announced in April for 2014 - because without it, our holidays are going to cost so much more (just due to the exchange rate dropping).

 

[thehowiet]

His main valid point (that i happen to agree with) is that people shouldnt be taking content from other sites. That does not excuse peoples (or his) behavior and I tend to hit the ceiling as well as when people steal my photos (i've learned to invoice them instead) but if someone posts something on their Disney site, that does not give anyone free reign to repost it here.

I see your point, but the difference here is that Tom does not own those leaked photos. They are not his property to claim. Once those photos are leaked, the only entity people have to answer to for posting them are TWDC, not the original person who posted them.

Now, I do think it would be wrong for someone to take the story word for word from his site, post it on their site and pass it off as their own. However, as far as the photos go, Tom has zero ownership of them, unless he owns the copyrights.

I do like your idea of sending the people who steal your photos an invoice. I'd love to see their face when that invoice arrives.

EDIT: I see @Bolna already addressed this.

 

[71jason]

Noticeably absent below? Hot Dog Heaven, Mahogeny Bay: Motor Boats & Root Beer Floats, or any of a half dozen other restaurant concepts floated by Schussler Creative (whatever it goes by now). Supposedly the reason the clubs were closed 5 years ago was to make room for these--Hot Dog Heaven even had a "coming soon" on their website.

Perhaps the rumors are true, T-Rex largely cannabalized RFC, and they realize the DTD full-service restaurant market is largely tapped out.


[quote="raven, post: 5351444, member: 2087"

[/quote]

 

[JustInTime]

Downtown Disney was always just a mall to me anyway. I don't see why people are upset. Sure, the clubs are gone, but just like a mall you can go to clubs anywhere. You gotta look at it like this; no matter what they do, it will end up better than what it is now. Period.

P.S. I am excited about the notion of a Paul Frank store.

 

[71jason]

The BVDDTDMP (Buena Vista Drive/Downtown Disney Master Plan) has been revised 4 or 5 times as Raven stated...

This plan is well developed and well thought out, and the visuals and design are amazingly well done...

I also agree with Raven, the consistent negativity is a definite turn-off for me on these boards.. Most of the faithful are just ed because the plan doesn't include (nor has it ever) Adventurers Club.

I actually agree with you on the Adventurers Club point--I've said before I'll put my AdvClub fanboi credentials up against anyone on the board, but I don't think it's absence necessarily dooms a project. (A lack of any nightlife is a black mark, given the lack of it property-wide, but still just another factor to weigh.) And I mentioned in an earlier thread it's a shame most DTD reinvention threads dissolve into that debate.

And I'm not going to judge the visuals based solely on leaked concept art, but I'll take your word they could be amazing.

But I cannot believe a plan is "well thought out" when:

• it includes a parking garage;
• it doesn't include a solution/alternative to traffic back-ups on BVD;
• it doesn't provide transportation other than the existing, inadequate boats; and
• it seems largely based on increasing the number of full-service restaurants and third party retail shops--the former are not necessary, and neither has shown much interest in being on WDW property outside of the parks in the past 5 years.

ETA: I do like the new bridge to avoid the cluster-muck in front of the Lego store, as well as the Outlet Mall like roof over West Side. Neither is a bold new vision complete with back story inspired by Henry Flagler, but both are common sense improvements.

 

[MattM]

He claimed that WDWMagic stole concept art he posted(which they clearly did not) and went off about it on twitter bigtime bashing this site and people who post here.

WDWMagic Derangement Syndrome.

 

[71jason]

I don't care what they do to the rest of the place, but wouldn't the Club fit perfectly in with this plan? Isn't it a no-brainer?

After I just complained how these threads always get derailed, here I go derailing it ...

But no. Would not fit at all. Would just exacerbate the trend critics tend to exaggerate of it becoming exclusively a hang-out for local hard core fanbois and CPs. Also much of the humor would cease to work. And after the intial rush of internet-inspired popularity, the place would start losing money.

 

[MattM]

What would I do if I was the Disney CEO tomorrow? I'd invite only the travel and business reporters from the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, Christian Science Monitor and a couple of Conde Naste magazines, and let all the rest of the frothing fan bloggers sit in their kitchens in their PJ's to pound out their frustrations on their laptops until their dishwasher was finished with the rinse cycle.

And the housewife from Colorado would remain at home, regardless of how wonderful she is.

Then you would be doing yourself and your company a great disservice. I don't necessarily like nor dislike that, but it's the way things are moving...

 

[jt04]

Per Screamscape today PH is being reimagined. Good.

It appears the AMC will be expanding again. I am guessing some sort of way for customers to get dropped off when raining or just so everyone in a party does not have to trek the parking lot. Nice add potentially.

Love that they seem to be relocating the marina and creating a section of water that appears separate which the promenade borders. Rumored water/light show?

The building featured in the artwork for the former PI looks perfect and bodes well for the Empress Lily IMO.

I still see elements of HW here and there. Seems as though they kept the best theming.

The atrium promenade looks great too. Love all the water features. Will bring back the serene elements of the Marketplace during the morning.

Just keeps getting better.

 

[Prototype82]

Maybe I haven't looked at the plans well enough but it looks so... Generic. When I want an escape, the neon borderline-Tokyo that is CityWalk calls to me. Putting "Springs" into it makes it sound like a retirement home...

 

[Lee]

After I just complained how these threads always get derailed, here I go derailing it ...

But no. Would not fit at all. Would just exacerbate the trend critics tend to exaggerate of it becoming exclusively a hang-out for local hard core fanbois and CPs. Also much of the humor would cease to work. And after the intial rush of internet-inspired popularity, the place would start losing money.

Nah...I disagree.
I think it would be a huge hit, to the extent that most locals, fanboys and CPs would give it up as "too full of tourists."
AC, over 21 only, with a modest cover (for everyone)....gold mine.

 

[lazyboy97o]

At some point, can we have a discussion about the difference between decoration ( a la the All Stars or the AoA and theming like say the BW, Poly or DAK Lodge)? I know it's a different topic, but so many of today's fans truly don't get a very important distinction.

Those can get quite interesting as at times it can show a very strong love for the brand over substance. Despite snubbing Six Flags a good many Disney fans love their design model and may even prefer it over the one pioneered by Disney.

 

[71jason]

Nah...I disagree.
I think it would be a huge hit, to the extent that most locals, fanboys and CPs would give it up as "too full of tourists."
AC, over 21 only, with a modest cover (for everyone)....gold mine.

But most of the humor came from club-hopping people wandering in not knowing what the hell it was, be they convention-goers or college girls. I think you lose that as a stand-alone venue. Simply put, Babylona's bodyguard induction ceremony isn't as funny if you know what she's going to ask you to do first. (This became an issue the final month, trying to find "volunteers" who had never been in the Club before.)

Capacity would be an issue too. "Library's full, can't go in" is fine when there are 7 other venues open to you and you don't really know what a Library show is anyway. If you paid the $30 cover (let's face it, that's the minimum) just to go in the AC and then get told you can't see a Library show ... let's just say I wouldn't want to be customer service. But if you limit attendance to 100 tickets a night, first and last shows will be empty, and you're not going to sell enough drinks to be profitable.

I loved the AC but it needs the PI club-hopping model to survive. The only alternative is to turn it into something else (the oft proposed dinner show, for instance) but at that point, it's not really the AC anymore.

 

[Californian Elitist]

This is just weird. And it's clearly been created by people in Southern California, as many of those brands are only found in hip Southern California neighborhoods. Or Southern Californians who vacation stylishly in the Pacific Northwest and visit hipster hangouts in Portland or Seattle.

I'm not sure this is actually a list of future tenants more than its a visual collection of clip art from some young California Imagineers who were brainstorming and thinking "Wouldn't it be cool if DTD had this? And this? And one of those places they have in Pasadena? And that hipster bar we went to up in Portland last year?"

The Edison (and their logo that was stolen here) already exists, for example; as a hyper-themed and rather expensive hipster bar in downtown Los Angeles where 98% of the blubbery tourists waddling around Orlando in their best Crocs and drip-dry travel shorts would never get past the doorman. http://www.edisondowntown.com/main.htm

And is there anyone living east of Phoenix who knows where Temecula is, and what it's now famous for? Powell's, as the West Coast hipster gem from rainy Portlandia? West LA's Paul Frank boutiques. Orange County's locals-only Shake Shack near Laguna Beach. American Girl from The Grove. Trader Sam's, as the fabulous mid-century mod tiki bar at the fabulous mid-century mod Disneyland Hotel, and on and on.

But then... the actual mall in Orlando will be managed by TDO property managers living in central Florida who aren't... um... exactly on the cutting edge of hip.

That collection of retail logos and brands seems very random, and obviously from a West Coast perspective. Are you sure it's a listing of actual future tenants, or is it just one of those "mood board" design activities that some young Imagineers in Glendale, California came up with as a brain exercise?

Swear, I was thinking the EXACT same thing. All that's missing is an In-N-Out, Fatburger and a Trader Joe's. Oh, and a Sprinkles.

 

[baymenxpac]

only on page 5, but let me chime in with something. if dannny meyer brings shake shack to WDW, just watch as the money gets dropped off by the truck loads.

i know some of you may not be familiar with shake shack, but it essentially prints money in NYC. even after 5 years of the ballpark being open (and an attendance drop off because they haven't been good in a while), it still commands a 3-4 inning line at mets games. the nationals just put one in nationals park, which again, proved to be very popular.

soft retail market or not, frozen custard shakes seem to be the key to people's wallets.

 

[DrewmanS]

Calling this a mall is a pretty big generalization. This is a mall:



So is this:


One I would not be caught dead at, the other is a pretty amazing place.

It's downtown Disney. It will have shopping, restaurants and nightlife. It's not a 5th gate. Could all 4 parks use a facelift in areas? Yes, for sure. I can't really think of a strong argument for spending money on DTD over the actual parks. With that being said the concept art looks pretty good. If they actually build this it's a major improvement over what's there now. The money could perhaps be better spent on rides, but at least it's not going into executive bonuses or everyone's favorite fall guy, another DVC resort.

Most companies have capital budgets that have to be justified. While we might not like the thought, Disney is a for profit company, not just a creator of Magic. That said, capital spent of DTD can be easily run through financial models to determine ROI based on different scenarios. Risks can be evaluated based on historical data, trends, and research. All of this is done in business concepts that are easily understood by senior management. The results can also be directly measured by the incremental revenue DTD generates. The same is true for building resorts or DVC. Each can be modeled, justified, and ROI tracked independently.

Now contrast that with the parks. What is the ROI for better maintenance of a ride? While preventive maintenance usually costs much less than corrective maintenance, that may not be true if work requires regular closure of rides to fix cosmetic issues. At what point do you hit diminishing returns. What is the ROI of adding a ride to an existing park? While it might add capacity, does the reduced wait times translate directly to increased attendance? Will adding a new themed land draw in new crowds? The fact is, there are allot more unknowns and bigger risks associated with investing in the parks. From a business/financial perspective it is much harder to make a soundly justified decision.

None of this is to justify not spending money on the parks, but the reality is that investing in retail inside and outside of the parks helps to generate the revenue that can then support investment back into the parks.

So whether you like the plans for DTD or not, it's likely easier to secure capital for this project.

Lastly, people tend to think that there is a fixed amount of money available for improvements and that every dollar spent on DTD means one less spent on the parks. That is not necessarily the case. Capital spending is all based on ROI. If a company can invest additional dollars and expect a minimum return based on an reasonable level of risk, it will. An E-ticket ride gets green lit when someone makes a convincing business case. The other complexity is how much does "plussing" a ride add to your return or reduce risk? This creates the issue of doing things "on the cheap". But would spending more money create larger returns?

So I am not trying to justify any decisions made by TDO, but to point out that it is not enough to say Disney should invest more money into X. That has to be backed by what return will that generate for the company. Then, within each project, how much investment is needed to maximize the return or minimize the risk. It's real easy to make these decisions when you are a fan and are not accountable for the results. Try taking your entire life savings and investing it into a single stock for the next 20 years.