Disney springs not doing so well.....

[21stamps]

Historically that has been the case but I expect it to change since Uni is going to want to capture as much market share as possible and not be limited to families with kids of that height; they'll diversify. I'd have to update myself on what they are doing in that regard (Nintendo?)

I compared the 2 extensively over the past few months. I know that my 6 year old would love everything at Universal...except for the fact that there a few coasters that he can't do. If this wasn't a Christmas themed trip, and our first one at Disney, then we would have done a few days at Uni for sure. I even went as far as reserving a room at Royal Pacific for 3 nights. In the end I just think Disney is the winner at that specific age. There are 2 "new to him" rides that he will be able to do this year that we couldn't do last year..so now in Disney terms he can do "everything".

When I think back to when he was 1-4 there is no way I would have even considered Universal. The only thing he knew at those ages were Disney Junior characters, and Mickey Mouse. He was a Jake fanatic and didn't have a clue about Nintendo, Harry Potter etc.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

simple example... why are only later days cheaper on a ticket, rather than simply lowering the day price across the board? Because the model is intended to make the stretch days of a vacation less of a commitment to pick Disney vs an alternative... or extend the stay at Disney 'because its so cheap' when someone compares the $30 a day vs the $100 a day they know the single day ticket is.

Why not take the same discount and as long as I paid up front.. let me use those days as I want? Because the pricing discount is not a discount for buying in bulk or for a larger transaction... it's a discount intended to stretch stays.. so the discounted tickets expire to ensure the discount works per trip, not for bulk buying. (and why Disney caps how long a MYW ticket can be bought for)

Using a simple argument you say "Disney is offering cheaper tickets.. which is what people want". Disney isn't offering cheaper tickets, it's offering an incentive to extend the length of your stay by offering discounted days...

When a guest compares going to Seaworld.. they now face 'giving up Disney discounts', and will compare paying Disney's $30/day rate instead of the regular $100/day rate. You can see how this makes it difficult for non-Disney properties to compete against Disney's super-discounted day prices.

The market used to survive by 'go to disney, and come see us on the side'. People would (happily) stay offsite, visit DIsney, visit Seaworld, visit the various Orlando town sideshow attractions, etc. People would day trip into Disney a few days and have a varied Orlando vacation. Disney has snuffed most of that ecosystem purely by how their products are structured and leverage each other. Not necessarily because customers suddenly ONLY care about Disney. But a decade plus later... people almost forget what the most common way to visit Disney used to be because Disney created new products and 'walls' through offerings to capture that type of visitor, then strangle out their ability and willingness to go outside Disney.

You do realize that Disney has been doing this since the 80's, right? e.g. in 1985:
1 day ticket - $21.50
3 day ticket - $44.00
4 day ticket - $56.50
5 day ticket - $65.50

And this is when they only had 2 parks. So if you bought 5 1 day tickets, it would cost you $107.50. So you saved $42 for each person by getting the 5 day ticket. No different than today, except now they have 4 parks, so they go up to 10 day tickets.

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

Think this thread needs this alert

 

[Otterhead]

One can be trying to be profitable... without a profit above all else mentality.. which is what your assertion misses.

I agree. Which is why I think the assertion that Disney is "profit above all" is ridiculous. One does not spend billions and billions of dollars on customer-centered next-level experiences if one's company is only about profit.

 

[SorcererMC]

False.

You have some misconception that this is about DECEPTION or somehow duping people - it's not. It's about influencing decisions. And not all the factors and choices made to steer the customer's choice may necessarily be immediately apparent to the customer. Often customer thinks the decision was made out of their interest... when in fact the decision was made to influence the customer in a way the seller wants.

For instance... When you goto the grocery store these days.. you often find coolers of drinks at the checkout lines. Those aren't there because the store realized so many of their customers were coming in parched and they really need to sell cold individual drinks. Or customers saying "you know, I really need a 16oz bottle of coke". The put the same product that is on the shelf elsewhere in the store in coolers at the front of the store because they are encouraging customers to make an additional purchase... by offering an adhoc portion size, in a ready to consume format.. right where you are going to be and making it a simple transaction.

Customer goes 'wow, this is great... I could use a drink' - even if they didn't walk in the door looking for a individual soda to drink right now.

I understand that companies do this and I think that customers are aware of it; manipulation is by definition a deceptive practice. Not all customers are going to be susceptible to such influence. Certainly with a WDW vacation, one must do their research. The onus is on the customer to know what they are getting, know their options, and decide what they are willing to pay for.

 

[Matt_Black]

I agree. Which is why I think the assertion that Disney is "profit above all" is ridiculous. One does not spend billions and billions of dollars on customer-centered next-level experiences if one's company is only about profit.

Let's not forget the charitable donations they make. Those fat cats, giving away money to sick orphans. I'm onto them!

 

[21stamps]

I understand that companies do this and I think that customers are aware of it; manipulation is by definition a deceptive practice. Not all customers are going to be susceptible to such influence. Certainly with a WDW vacation, one must do their research. The onus is on the customer to know what they are getting, know their options, and decide what they are willing to pay for.

There are a few here who refuse to acknowledge reasonable thinking. No matter how many people are presenting it to them. They rant, then don't answer direct questions... just continue the same tangent.

I'm thinking that it is hopeless to try to rationalize with them.lol

 

[flynnibus]

I understand your argument and you can keep rephrasing it if you like. The Orlando theme park industry is a textbook oligopoly case which is not perfect competition. The ONLY reason that Disney is able to adopt that strategy, structure their product as you describe it, and implement it successfully is due to their market position

Other Orlando businesses have similar bundling strategies as well (Discovery Cove/SW/BG for instance) - these kinds of strategic choices are not limited by market position. Viability and profitability of doing as such of course will depend on your success.. but its not a product of their market position. The fact Disney's implementation of these strategies was in a move to combat competition speaks to that as well. Disney moved to change the market from a pond of a few big fishes with some smalls mixed in.. to Disney having their own pond isolated from the other pond everyone else hangs out.

I agree that there is a limit as to what the consumer will tolerate in terms of price increases and quality decreases, and the market will eventually shift as Uni increases their quality and offerings.

That has nothing to do with what I was saying.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

There are a few here who refuse to acknowledge reasonable thinking. No matter how many people are presenting it to them. They rant, then don't answer direct questions... just continue the same tangent.

I'm thinking that it is hopeless to try to rationalize with them.lol

 

[LuvtheGoof]

The fact Disney's implementation of these strategies was in a move to combat competition speaks to that as well. Disney moved to change the market from a pond of a few big fishes with some smalls mixed in.. to Disney having their own pond isolated from the other pond everyone else hangs out.

OK, so in one sense you seem to say that Disney doesn't care about the competition, because they are number one. Now you are saying that they need to combat the competition. Which is it? They can't both be true.

 

[21stamps]

OK, so in one sense you seem to say that Disney doesn't care about the competition, because they are number one. Now you are saying that they need to combat the competition. Which is it? They can't both be true.

Does this site have a 'buzz button'? Can someone page me if we ever get an actual answer, one that makes sense and is directly related to the question, from either Flynn or the other guy. I've been tabbing back to this thread in hopes to see one..but I probably should get some actual work done today...

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Customer goes 'wow, this is great... I could use a drink' - even if they didn't walk in the door looking for a individual soda to drink right now.

But a customer who isn't thirsty in the first place, wouldn't even look there at all. You act like we have no free will of our own anymore - well, except for you. We are all sheep who do whatever advertising tells us to do.

 

[flynnibus]

Every theme park and amusement park in the US does this. Not all with the same length of time, but they all offer either a 2 day pass, 1.5 day pass, season/annual pass etc etc at a lower rate than a 1 day admission.

You see similar outcomes but fail to understand they differ in motivation and purpose.

A regional theme park offers cheaper second days, buy 2, get all year, etc because they are trying to generate additional repeat visits.. usually not even in the same trip. The discount (the common element you picked up on) is implemented by Disney to drive a completely different behavior which is increase the total length of stay and try to ensure a more comprehensive portion of the vacationer's stay.

They both use a same tool (discounts) but are aiming for very different behavior modifications.

It's why MYW is structured in this fashion.. and Disney doesn't push AP purchases for a 2-4 day break even point like a regional park does. Disney can easily sell the 1-3 day stay and doesn't need the AP upsell at that price point like most regional parks do. Disney's discount is aimed to get that 3-4 day stay into a 5+ day ***stay*** - very different.

 

[flynnibus]

Or......A poor unfortunate soul such as myself knows ahead of time that cereal is $4, so I actually use this thing called a brain and choose to bring cereal with us...as well as Zbars and a few other snacks. They don't take up much luggage space.

Refer to the lines in the post with 'hurdles' in them and try doubling the comprehension effort.

 

[SorcererMC]

Other Orlando businesses have similar bundling strategies as well (Discovery Cove/SW/BG for instance) - these kinds of strategic choices are not limited by market position. Viability and profitability of doing as such of course will depend on your success.. but its not a product of their market position. The fact Disney's implementation of these strategies was in a move to combat competition speaks to that as well. Disney moved to change the market from a pond of a few big fishes with some smalls mixed in.. to Disney having their own pond isolated from the other pond everyone else hangs out.




That has nothing to do with what I was saying.

Ok. I think we are going to have to respectfully disagree (and agree where we do) at this point since it is off-topic.

 

[flynnibus]

You do realize that Disney has been doing this since the 80's, right? e.g. in 1985:
1 day ticket - $21.50
3 day ticket - $44.00
4 day ticket - $56.50
5 day ticket - $65.50

And this is when they only had 2 parks. So if you bought 5 1 day tickets, it would cost you $107.50. So you saved $42 for each person by getting the 5 day ticket. No different than today, except now they have 4 parks, so they go up to 10 day tickets.

Those tickets were very different... They didn't have any consecutive or expiration limits. Disney was giving you a discount for buying in bulk, a classic 'increase the size of the transaction' incentive. They were incentivizing you to visit more. Why did Disney introduce these new artifical limits if everything was the same as before??

Disney changed the game and intended outcomes with MYW.

You need to recognize not just the OUTCOME/Tool is the same (A Discount) and look at what the tool is being used to do.. and its effectiveness in doing that. That's why this discussion isn't just about PRICES but how Disney structures, integrates, designs, and implements things.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Does this site have a 'buzz button'? Can someone page me if we ever get an actual answer, one that makes sense and is directly related to the question, from either Flynn or the other guy. I've been tabbing back to this thread in hopes to see one..but I probably should get some actual work done today...

Well, they can't give a straight answer, because they know their arguments are extremely weak, and when challenged, will simply move the goal posts or start talking about something else that has nothing to do with the conversation. I will say, they are masters at that part.

We were at DS multiple days last week. We saw at least 50% of the people with bags in their hands, and not just from Disney stores. The restaurants were busy every night. We alone ate at a few of them, and spent a considerable amount of money there during our week visit. Are we sheep that just mind-numbingly buy something Disney just because of product advertisement or placement? No of course not, and neither are 99% of anybody else that is there either. Will all of the stores survive? Of course not. Anyone who thinks so is deluding themselves. Will most? Probably. What people here seem to completely overlook is one simple thing - even though a lot of these stores are available where THEY live, the vast majority of the people on the planet have never even heard of a lot of them. They don't have local access to them, and their prices are not out of line with what they might be used to paying. Just because the people here aren't the target audience, they think it's stupid or that we are being manipulated somehow.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

You see similar outcomes but fail to understand they differ in motivation and purpose.

A regional theme park offers cheaper second days, buy 2, get all year, etc because they are trying to generate additional repeat visits.. usually not even in the same trip. The discount (the common element you picked up on) is implemented by Disney to drive a completely different behavior which is increase the total length of stay and try to ensure a more comprehensive portion of the vacationer's stay.

They both use a same tool (discounts) but are aiming for very different behavior modifications.

It's why MYW is structured in this fashion.. and Disney doesn't push AP purchases for a 2-4 day break even point like a regional park does. Disney can easily sell the 1-3 day stay and doesn't need the AP upsell at that price point like most regional parks do. Disney's discount is aimed to get that 3-4 day stay into a 5+ day ***stay*** - very different.

And a LOT of the visitors to WDW are from overseas markets nowadays that couldn't care less about comparing their local park to Disney. Apples and oranges again.

 

[flynnibus]

But a customer who isn't thirsty in the first place, wouldn't even look there at all.

So anyone who has ever bought a product, only bought it because they had a demonstrated need for it? Sorry, this is a fallacy that is ignorant of sales and advertising in general.

You act like we have no free will of our own anymore - well, except for you. We are all sheep who do whatever advertising tells us to do.

That has never been the argument presented here at all... so I suggest you either re-read, or bow-out.. because I've never suggested any such thing.

 

[flynnibus]

And a LOT of the visitors to WDW are from overseas markets nowadays that couldn't care less about comparing their local park to Disney. Apples and oranges again.

w t f does that have to do with anything? Customers aren't the ones designing the product and pricing strategies.. so their input or ability to compare is as relevant as the price of tea in china. I don't you have a clue on what the actual discussion is.. product marketing and strategies..