Disney springs not doing so well.....

[21stamps]

Classic coping mechanism.

It is one of the most strong examples of denial. Of course, you took it as an attack on you personally.

Do you know how to answer a question?

I don't think you have given an actual direct answer to a direct question one time in this thread.

Who is the abused and who is the abuser? Can you elaborate on that example?


Oh, and the infatuation comment- Dude, you saved a photo of me and reused it. Yeah, that's creepy.

 

[ford91exploder]

Uh... Disney Springs is fun, ain't it? Shops and fun restaurants and street entertainment and an Indiana Jones bar!

It's fun for some like a certain relative of mine (Not DW aka SWMBO) whose picture you see when you look up 'High Maintenance' on the internet for whom shopping is an art form. And I don't have a problem with Disney having a 'park' where the shopaholics gather as that's what Capitalism is all about and it's fun for that demographic and there is no reason Disney should not capture those dollars.

I have a problem when they try to turn a Theme Park into a shopping venue however.

 

[ford91exploder]

I feel certain with their current track record, that Pandora will ne "nice", but will miss the mark of "WOW" and will miss the expectation based on what they are spending to build it... Seems to be the way of the parks lately... I sure hope I am wrong, but I suspect I am not.

Sadly I agree I'm thinking we will get Hub/NFL level of execution instead of a Cars Land level of execution and the finished product will be 'meh

 

[Otterhead]

Uh... Disney Springs is fun, ain't it? Shops and fun restaurants and street entertainment and an Indiana Jones bar!

I am in no way a 'shopaholic' and didn't visit a single store at DS outside of ten minutes inside World of Disney, and I had a great time visiting Disney Springs several nights on my recent trip. Staying at the Treehouses, it was a five minute boat ride away, so getting a bite to eat and listening to the multiple bands playing outside, watching the aquacars, playing games at DisneyQuest (for now), or getting a drink at Jock Lindsey's was a great way to wind up an evening before heading back 'home' on a boat. I love the new layout and think it's a really nice upgrade from Downtown Disney, very refreshing, and look forward to The Edison.

 

[Otterhead]

Pandora will ne "nice", but will miss the mark of "WOW"

Everything I've seen from Joe Rhode's work-in-progress reports looks really awesome, honestly. And I'm far from a fan of Avatar. I think it's going to be a stunning environment to walk around in and explore. I trust Joe's track record of quality on this kind of thing.

 

[Bandini]

I feel certain with their current track record, that Pandora will ne "nice", but will miss the mark of "WOW" and will miss the expectation based on what they are spending to build it... Seems to be the way of the parks lately... I sure hope I am wrong, but I suspect I am not.

That's the saddest part of all. It's like seeing a kid with all of this potential flush his future down the toilet. I miss the Wows! I'm sure the imagineers do too.

 

[CDavid]

Uh... Disney Springs is fun, ain't it? Shops and fun restaurants and street entertainment and an Indiana Jones bar!

Indeed. Someone should definitely start a thread to discuss Disney Springs and how well it is performing.

 

[21stamps]

I am in no way a 'shopaholic' and didn't visit a single store at DS outside of ten minutes inside World of Disney, and I had a great time visiting Disney Springs several nights on my recent trip. Staying at the Treehouses, it was a five minute boat ride away, so getting a bite to eat and listening to the multiple bands playing outside, watching the aquacars, playing games at DisneyQuest (for now), or getting a drink at Jock Lindsey's was a great way to wind up an evening before heading back 'home' on a boat. I love the new layout and think it's a really nice upgrade from Downtown Disney, very refreshing, and look forward to The Edison.

I have been back and forth on if we will have time to do DS and DisneyQuest. Do you recommend DQ for a 6 year old? He's over 48" so can do most but not all of the attractions.

 

[Otterhead]

Do you recommend DQ for a 6 year old? He's over 48" so can do most but not all of the attractions.

There's definitely stuff he'd enjoy, like the Buzz Lightyear "cannon" bumper cars, the "Sid's Create-a-Toy" game, the 'virtual Jungle Cruise', and the 'virtual Space Mountain'. The Pirates of the Caribbean ride might be too tricky for a 6 year old unless you have several people in your group at once. But if your time is short, there's nothing there that's amazing enough that I'd recommend a special trip to DQ to check it out.

 

[flynnibus]

There's no question that Disney has had the advantage of being the dominant market leader; I don't dispute that. However, their ability to shape consumer tastes and preferences is limited by the consumer's willingness to buy the product offered and remain loyal

Not once they customer has entered the wall garden. This is the very concept of 'captive audience' - No one as a preference to pay $4 for a bowl of cereal... but because Disney controls the food offerings and they universally all charge the same.. you pay it or face additional hurdles. When those hurdles are greater than people's willingness to tolerate.. they will either concede and pay $4 or do without. Disney isn't limited by customer loyalty or preference... it's limited by customer tolerance.

What is going on here is... Disney is creating product models that encourage people to enter the walled garden, even if they didn't necessarily believe they wanted to initially. Disney is steering that behavior based on how their products are structured.. not just simply the end thing they are consuming. IE: "I need a hotel" - Disney's structuring of bundling across silos.. including dining, ticket structure, and transportation.. steer customers to pay for that hotel and enter the walled garden. Once in the walled garden, Disney further structures the products in ways to raise the height of those walls to The topics like locking dining to your hotel room days is completely artificial and done to build up those walls. Those types of constraints are not things customers enter because of preference or loyalty, they are artificial limits Disney introduces to drive behavior.. and customers tolerate because the burden generally does not impede them to the point of conciously being distraught over it. But being in the walled garden, Disney is able to capitalize on the customer's current condition...

That's the key... shape customer behavior, drive them to your end-goal, and wall them in as best you can without making the walls the focus point.

Overtime, because Disney has structured these products in a way that customers see them as a value to THEM... they can evolve into seeing the offering as their preferred way of consumption... and people forget or don't focus on the compromises they gave up to buy into that model.

This strategy is not about who is the market leader... etc... this is about product design and structuring done explicitly to STEER CUSTOMER BEHAVIOR.

 

[flynnibus]

I understand. I guess I simply don't think that Disney is being 'manipulative' or using some kind of spectacular psychological trick by offering attractive packages that consumers apparently want

simple example... why are only later days cheaper on a ticket, rather than simply lowering the day price across the board? Because the model is intended to make the stretch days of a vacation less of a commitment to pick Disney vs an alternative... or extend the stay at Disney 'because its so cheap' when someone compares the $30 a day vs the $100 a day they know the single day ticket is.

Why not take the same discount and as long as I paid up front.. let me use those days as I want? Because the pricing discount is not a discount for buying in bulk or for a larger transaction... it's a discount intended to stretch stays.. so the discounted tickets expire to ensure the discount works per trip, not for bulk buying. (and why Disney caps how long a MYW ticket can be bought for)

Using a simple argument you say "Disney is offering cheaper tickets.. which is what people want". Disney isn't offering cheaper tickets, it's offering an incentive to extend the length of your stay by offering discounted days...

When a guest compares going to Seaworld.. they now face 'giving up Disney discounts', and will compare paying Disney's $30/day rate instead of the regular $100/day rate. You can see how this makes it difficult for non-Disney properties to compete against Disney's super-discounted day prices.

The market used to survive by 'go to disney, and come see us on the side'. People would (happily) stay offsite, visit DIsney, visit Seaworld, visit the various Orlando town sideshow attractions, etc. People would day trip into Disney a few days and have a varied Orlando vacation. Disney has snuffed most of that ecosystem purely by how their products are structured and leverage each other. Not necessarily because customers suddenly ONLY care about Disney. But a decade plus later... people almost forget what the most common way to visit Disney used to be because Disney created new products and 'walls' through offerings to capture that type of visitor, then strangle out their ability and willingness to go outside Disney.

 

[21stamps]

simple example... why are only later days cheaper on a ticket, rather than simply lowering the day price across the board? Because the model is intended to make the stretch days of a vacation less of a commitment to pick Disney vs an alternative... or extend the stay at Disney 'because its so cheap' when someone compares the $30 a day vs the $100 a day they know the single day ticket is.

Why not take the same discount and as long as I paid up front.. let me use those days as I want? Because the pricing discount is not a discount for buying in bulk or for a larger transaction... it's a discount intended to stretch stays.. so the discounted tickets expire to ensure the discount works per trip, not for bulk buying. (and why Disney caps how long a MYW ticket can be bought for)

Using a simple argument you say "Disney is offering cheaper tickets.. which is what people want". Disney isn't offering cheaper tickets, it's offering an incentive to extend the length of your stay by offering discounted days...

When a guest compares going to Seaworld.. they now face 'giving up Disney discounts', and will compare paying Disney's $30/day rate instead of the regular $100/day rate. You can see how this makes it difficult for non-Disney properties to compete against Disney's super-discounted day prices.

The market used to survive by 'go to disney, and come see us on the side'. People would (happily) stay offsite, visit DIsney, visit Seaworld, visit the various Orlando town sideshow attractions, etc. People would day trip into Disney a few days and have a varied Orlando vacation. Disney has snuffed most of that ecosystem purely by how their products are structured and leverage each other. Not necessarily because customers suddenly ONLY care about Disney. But a decade plus later... people almost forget what the most common way to visit Disney used to be because Disney created new products and 'walls' through offerings to capture that type of visitor, then strangle out their ability and willingness to go outside Disney.

Every theme park and amusement park in the US does this. Not all with the same length of time, but they all offer either a 2 day pass, 1.5 day pass, season/annual pass etc etc at a lower rate than a 1 day admission.

 

[SorcererMC]

This strategy is not about who is the market leader

I understand your argument and you can keep rephrasing it if you like. The Orlando theme park industry is a textbook oligopoly case which is not perfect competition. The ONLY reason that Disney is able to adopt that strategy, structure their product as you describe it, and implement it successfully is due to their market position. You don't have to like it! I agree that there is a limit as to what the consumer will tolerate in terms of price increases and quality decreases, and the market will eventually shift as Uni increases their quality and offerings.

 

[21stamps]

I understand your argument and you can keep rephrasing it if you like. The Orlando theme park industry is a textbook oligopoly case which is not perfect competition. The ONLY reason that Disney is able to adopt that strategy, structure their product as you describe it, and implement it successfully is due to their market position. You don't have to like it! I agree that there is a limit as to what the consumer will tolerate in terms of price increases and quality decreases, and the market will eventually shift as Uni increases their quality and offerings.

Agree, but only a certain market. For those of us who have children under 54" it is a lot easier to choose a park where our kids can do "everything" over a park where they can't.

Even when they aren't yet 48" Disney still has more to offer that market than Universal does. That's why I never compare the 2 as apples to apples.

 

[flynnibus]

Are you saying that Eisner wasn't trying to make Disney a profitable company when he was in charge?
And that massive, expensive expansions under Iger's leadership (Star Wars, Pandora, DS, Toy Story, Shanghai, Fantasyland) weren't done for the enjoyment of guests?
This kind of post is why WDWMagic has a bad reputation.

It's this kind of hyperboylic 'one or nothing' type of post that gives posters a bad reputation. One can be trying to be profitable... without a profit above all else mentality.. which is what your assertion misses. For instance, the mantra of building champions will lead to more repeat business instead of 'extra as much as possible for every transaction'.

To close your eyes to how Disney is monetizing things now vs the past is delusional.

 

[21stamps]

Not once they customer has entered the wall garden. This is the very concept of 'captive audience' - No one as a preference to pay $4 for a bowl of cereal... but because Disney controls the food offerings and they universally all charge the same.. you pay it or face additional hurdles. When those hurdles are greater than people's willingness to tolerate.. they will either concede and pay $4 or do without. Disney isn't limited by customer loyalty or preference... it's limited by customer tolerance.

What is going on here is... Disney is creating product models that encourage people to enter the walled garden, even if they didn't necessarily believe they wanted to initially. Disney is steering that behavior based on how their products are structured.. not just simply the end thing they are consuming. IE: "I need a hotel" - Disney's structuring of bundling across silos.. including dining, ticket structure, and transportation.. steer customers to pay for that hotel and enter the walled garden. Once in the walled garden, Disney further structures the products in ways to raise the height of those walls to The topics like locking dining to your hotel room days is completely artificial and done to build up those walls. Those types of constraints are not things customers enter because of preference or loyalty, they are artificial limits Disney introduces to drive behavior.. and customers tolerate because the burden generally does not impede them to the point of conciously being distraught over it. But being in the walled garden, Disney is able to capitalize on the customer's current condition...

That's the key... shape customer behavior, drive them to your end-goal, and wall them in as best you can without making the walls the focus point.

Overtime, because Disney has structured these products in a way that customers see them as a value to THEM... they can evolve into seeing the offering as their preferred way of consumption... and people forget or don't focus on the compromises they gave up to buy into that model.

This strategy is not about who is the market leader... etc... this is about product design and structuring done explicitly to STEER CUSTOMER BEHAVIOR.

Or......A poor unfortunate soul such as myself knows ahead of time that cereal is $4, so I actually use this thing called a brain and choose to bring cereal with us...as well as Zbars and a few other snacks. They don't take up much luggage space.

 

[SorcererMC]

Agree, but only a certain market. For those of us who have children under 54" it is a lot easier to choose a park where our kids can do "everything" over a park where they can't.

Even when they aren't yet 48" Disney still has more to offer that market than Universal does. That's why I never compare the 2 as apples to apples.

Historically that has been the case but I expect it to change since Uni is going to want to capture as much market share as possible and not be limited to families with kids of that height; they'll diversify. I'd have to update myself on what they are doing in that regard (Nintendo?)

 

[Mr Ferret 75]

Denial is the easiest way for people to distance themselves from an awareness of unpleasant thoughts or behaviors.

Denile is a river in Egypt

 

[flynnibus]

Manipulation only works if one doesn't know how it's done

False.

You have some misconception that this is about DECEPTION or somehow duping people - it's not. It's about influencing decisions. And not all the factors and choices made to steer the customer's choice may necessarily be immediately apparent to the customer. Often customer thinks the decision was made out of their interest... when in fact the decision was made to influence the customer in a way the seller wants.

For instance... When you goto the grocery store these days.. you often find coolers of drinks at the checkout lines. Those aren't there because the store realized so many of their customers were coming in parched and they really need to sell cold individual drinks. Or customers saying "you know, I really need a 16oz bottle of coke". The put the same product that is on the shelf elsewhere in the store in coolers at the front of the store because they are encouraging customers to make an additional purchase... by offering an adhoc portion size, in a ready to consume format.. right where you are going to be and making it a simple transaction.

Customer goes 'wow, this is great... I could use a drink' - even if they didn't walk in the door looking for a individual soda to drink right now.

 

[SorcererMC]

Denile is a river in Egypt

Or a spring in FL!