Disney Scanning Fastpasses

[Figment632]

God I don't. Its already bad enough having to plan where and when you plan on eating months in advance, the last thing I want to do is have to plan out my ride choices and times. The best thing about the parks used to be the taking your time and enjoying them. With the advent of fastpass and the like it feels far more like I'm having my entire day scheduled for me ahead of time, and if I don't want to take part in it, I'm going to have my visit drastically hampered by longer standby lines everywhere.

No one is stopping you from taking your time but if that is what you want to do you shouldn't complain about waiting in lines its your own choice.

3 hours is to long it can't be any longer than 2. 2 hours gives you plenty of time if you get stuck on a line or at dinner. If people don't know how to manage their time or feel like taking their time that is their own problem and the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer!

 

[KingdomHeart]

Everyone complains that people coming back late backs up both lines, which believe me isn't true. The percentage of late FPs in the line is incredibly small compared to the on time ones. And as long as the CM at the merge position is doing their job correctly, there should be no back up in either line.

I tend to disagree on this point - it is so much more than merge doing their job right. Really is and I having spent months at BTM, I have seen dozens of reasons for a back up and have to tell you, with at least BTM in particular, you're very inaccurate. If grouper is not going as quickly as they should, leaving rows empty, it slows down the line. If dispatch or unload are taking their time, slowing down dispatch, allowing the other station to steal the dispatch or worse - both are going slowly, it'll be messed up. If exit is having trouble loading someone (ECV, disability, someone over the safety line), you cannot dispatch to send it. If you're bringing out another train, for a moment, you must hold your dispatch, waiting for a certain thing to happen. So, I could be at merge, being the best merge CM of all time, and if anyone of those things happened (which they did daily), doesn't matter. Backup and then offset number of people on fp makes it worse, compounding the backup.

Additionally, fastpass is designed to give out (depending on the setting so the number can fluctuate) 80% of the amount of guests we can handle that hour, allowing for 20% on standby. It is figured on guests we can handle per hour. So if, let's say we can handle 1000 people per hour for the hour of 10-11 am (just for a hypothetical number), so we give out 800 fastpasses. Let's say 400 of those people decided to come back at 5 pm. Well, now, 5 pm is trying to accomodate it's 1000 people, plus this additional 400. They give out FP to compacity (as a fact), so then additional people over that number WILL in fact cause a slow down on both lines, because to keep FP moving properly, you have to cut into the number of standby you can use. So, yes, even a merge guy is doing a perfect job, you can still be faced with a particularly rough line.

And you'd be shocked by the number of late FPs. Some days I would see them in a nearly even ratio - people whose fps were late, trying to get in early (everyone always has a great reason they're early and can't use it later) to people who can and should be on the line then. The fact remains, people coming late to FP is a courtesy, not something people should be flaunting in their faces, in my opinion. But until Disney says something, I guess we just have to accept how it is.
-Nicholas

 

[PhilharMagician]

I tend to disagree on this point - it is so much more than merge doing their job right. Really is and I having spent months at BTM, I have seen dozens of reasons for a back up and have to tell you, with at least BTM in particular, you're very inaccurate. If grouper is not going as quickly as they should, leaving rows empty, it slows down the line. If dispatch or unload are taking their time, slowing down dispatch, allowing the other station to steal the dispatch or worse - both are going slowly, it'll be messed up. If exit is having trouble loading someone (ECV, disability, someone over the safety line), you cannot dispatch to send it. If you're bringing out another train, for a moment, you must hold your dispatch, waiting for a certain thing to happen. So, I could be at merge, being the best merge CM of all time, and if anyone of those things happened (which they did daily), doesn't matter. Backup and then offset number of people on fp makes it worse, compounding the backup.

Additionally, fastpass is designed to give out (depending on the setting so the number can fluctuate) 80% of the amount of guests we can handle that hour, allowing for 20% on standby. It is figured on guests we can handle per hour. So if, let's say we can handle 1000 people per hour for the hour of 10-11 am (just for a hypothetical number), so we give out 800 fastpasses. Let's say 400 of those people decided to come back at 5 pm. Well, now, 5 pm is trying to accomodate it's 1000 people, plus this additional 400. They give out FP to compacity (as a fact), so then additional people over that number WILL in fact cause a slow down on both lines, because to keep FP moving properly, you have to cut into the number of standby you can use. So, yes, even a merge guy is doing a perfect job, you can still be faced with a particularly rough line.

And you'd be shocked by the number of late FPs. Some days I would see them in a nearly even ratio - people whose fps were late, trying to get in early (everyone always has a great reason they're early and can't use it later) to people who can and should be on the line then. The fact remains, people coming late to FP is a courtesy, not something people should be flaunting in their faces, in my opinion. But until Disney says something, I guess we just have to accept how it is.
-Nicholas

I absolutely agree and the make a point to all, this is a CM that performed the job of loading guests at BTMRR and he is telling you that late FP's creates a problem. This is a fact not an assumtion.

The CM at the merge has nothing to do with the capacity of the ride. The CM at the line merge controls only which line moves forward. The line itself moves as fast as they can load and unload guests.

I would like to see this being enforced. If I miss my time slot, well I guess I deserve to wait in stand-by.

 

[CRO-Magnum]

It's a phase-in of a larger move...

Why is Walt Disney World now scannig Fast passes?

...toward using bar codes. Back in the late 1980's the annual passes had bar codes which worked well because the passes were nearly indestructable. Then they moved to the current paper nonsense and compounded that by using magnetic strips. Over the past several years as a family of six we would have to stop by and replace one or more passes anywhere from a low of two to a high of 12 times per trip (one week). When the paper bent the magnetic particle alignment would be modified and thus the strip would lose its "memory". This does not happen to bar codes!!!

Anyone who has been to a theme park at WDW knows how long it takes when someone's card doesn't work, and it happpens often. After 8+ years of complaining I finally had it at DHS earlier this year when again, my ticket didn't work which delayed my entry to the park by 30min while my family was already inside and looking for me. I called and emailed just about every executive I ever met to express my dissastifaction and recommendations for improvement. The quick reply was that Disney was already moving back to bar codes and was going to start testing soon.

Late this summer in a non-related conversation I was told Disney was adding bar codes to fast passes primarily to enable tracking (who got the pass, who used the pass, when was the pass used vs. the time stated, did the family get passes together or split them among two or more attractions, how many award/package passes are used, are they used by the intended recipient, etc.). The secondary reason was fraud.

I asked why they didn't "charge" the annual passes and resort pass/tickets with the fastpasses as an option to reduce paper waste and I was told they have been looking into something like that with the chief issue of how will people remember the attractions and times.

Magnetic will stay for some time with the large number of cards in use but expect a transition to bar codes for tickets resort wide.

P.S. Resort passes which incorporate a key, resort charge card, and package dinning/ticket card if applicable will remain the same with a magnetic stripe. They may add a bar code for the tickets but will not for the room key due to both the cost of changing systems and security concerns.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

You are missing the important point. Right now, the people who have decided that the end window time isn't important to enforce are the folks in Park Ops. Disney has made this decision, not individual guests. Disney has also decided that the opening time *is* important to enforce.

You can argue whether or not they should decide to do these things. But the fact is that that is what they've decided to do. And, because of the culture of the parks, that decision is unlikely to change until and unless so many people take advantage of it that it causes other problems elsewhere in the Fastpass system. Disney's current position is that such problems are not occuring---even at Disneyland, where a much larger fraction of the day's guests know, for a fact, that the end time doesn't matter one whit.

So, you can complain about it (to no effect) and follow the policy that you wish Disney implemented, or you can follow the policy Disney actually has implemented. It's up to you.

This is a point that seems to get overlooked a lot when this debate comes up. Regardless of the merits of the view that the FP window should be enforced strictly, expecting guests to self-enforce a policy that Disney isn't willing to enforce is excessively optimistic, to say the least.

 

[burninup4nick]

wow!


thats good to know!!!

I wasnt aware they were doing that lol.
thanks for the update!

 

[E-Ride Night]

So you guys are saying now that when you get into the fastpass line, instead of flashing your fastpass to the castmember, u have to scan it in a machine before you can get in line?

Is this what I'm understanding?

 

[captainkidd]

So you guys are saying now that when you get into the fastpass line, instead of flashing your fastpass to the castmember, u have to scan it in a machine before you can get in line?

Is this what I'm understanding?

That's the idea.

 

[Plutofan1]

Everyone that is against using fastpass after the alloted time slots is seeming to forget one thing. Isn't it the cast members who LET THEM IN? Most of the time, I do see the CM look at the FP time, and if it is expired (from same day, have never tried using FP tickets from different day) they let me in anyway. Someone must be telling the CMs that it is okay for people to use expired FP. Or am I wrong? It just seems like since nearly all CMs accept an expired FP, Disney must approve of it. I'm not saying collect all day and then use at night, but Lets say my Splash FP is from 2:15-3:15, and we've just gotten off Big Thunder at 3:00. But the little ones are tired and want a snack. I'm going to get them their snack. If we don't get back to Splash by 3:15 and are still let in the FP line, I think that it is completely fair. That being said, if a CM said no, your FP is expired, that would perfectly within reason. But if the CM lets me in, which would most likely happen, I won't refuse and say it is okay, I'll wait in the 100 minute standby line. Anyone else agree?:shrug:

 

[TurboCaroline]

I tend to disagree on this point - it is so much more than merge doing their job right. Really is and I having spent months at BTM, I have seen dozens of reasons for a back up and have to tell you, with at least BTM in particular, you're very inaccurate. If grouper is not going as quickly as they should, leaving rows empty, it slows down the line. If dispatch or unload are taking their time, slowing down dispatch, allowing the other station to steal the dispatch or worse - both are going slowly, it'll be messed up. If exit is having trouble loading someone (ECV, disability, someone over the safety line), you cannot dispatch to send it. If you're bringing out another train, for a moment, you must hold your dispatch, waiting for a certain thing to happen. So, I could be at merge, being the best merge CM of all time, and if anyone of those things happened (which they did daily), doesn't matter. Backup and then offset number of people on fp makes it worse, compounding the backup.

Additionally, fastpass is designed to give out (depending on the setting so the number can fluctuate) 80% of the amount of guests we can handle that hour, allowing for 20% on standby. It is figured on guests we can handle per hour. So if, let's say we can handle 1000 people per hour for the hour of 10-11 am (just for a hypothetical number), so we give out 800 fastpasses. Let's say 400 of those people decided to come back at 5 pm. Well, now, 5 pm is trying to accomodate it's 1000 people, plus this additional 400. They give out FP to compacity (as a fact), so then additional people over that number WILL in fact cause a slow down on both lines, because to keep FP moving properly, you have to cut into the number of standby you can use. So, yes, even a merge guy is doing a perfect job, you can still be faced with a particularly rough line.

And you'd be shocked by the number of late FPs. Some days I would see them in a nearly even ratio - people whose fps were late, trying to get in early (everyone always has a great reason they're early and can't use it later) to people who can and should be on the line then. The fact remains, people coming late to FP is a courtesy, not something people should be flaunting in their faces, in my opinion. But until Disney says something, I guess we just have to accept how it is.
-Nicholas

Well said!:sohappy:

 

[pjammer]

Everyone complains that people coming back late backs up both lines, which believe me isn't true. The percentage of late FPs in the line is incredibly small compared to the on time ones. And as long as the CM at the merge position is doing their job correctly, there should be no back up in either line.

I agree. I've worked at plenty of FP attractions (All of Epcot and Most of the MK, including BTM) and if you do your job right at merge then you won't have a problem.

I tend to disagree on this point - it is so much more than merge doing their job right. Really is and I having spent months at BTM, I have seen dozens of reasons for a back up and have to tell you, with at least BTM in particular, you're very inaccurate. If grouper is not going as quickly as they should, leaving rows empty, it slows down the line. If dispatch or unload are taking their time, slowing down dispatch, allowing the other station to steal the dispatch or worse - both are going slowly, it'll be messed up. If exit is having trouble loading someone (ECV, disability, someone over the safety line), you cannot dispatch to send it. If you're bringing out another train, for a moment, you must hold your dispatch, waiting for a certain thing to happen. So, I could be at merge, being the best merge CM of all time, and if anyone of those things happened (which they did daily), doesn't matter. Backup and then offset number of people on fp makes it worse, compounding the backup.

Additionally, fastpass is designed to give out (depending on the setting so the number can fluctuate) 80% of the amount of guests we can handle that hour, allowing for 20% on standby. It is figured on guests we can handle per hour. So if, let's say we can handle 1000 people per hour for the hour of 10-11 am (just for a hypothetical number), so we give out 800 fastpasses. Let's say 400 of those people decided to come back at 5 pm. Well, now, 5 pm is trying to accomodate it's 1000 people, plus this additional 400. They give out FP to compacity (as a fact), so then additional people over that number WILL in fact cause a slow down on both lines, because to keep FP moving properly, you have to cut into the number of standby you can use. So, yes, even a merge guy is doing a perfect job, you can still be faced with a particularly rough line.

And you'd be shocked by the number of late FPs. Some days I would see them in a nearly even ratio - people whose fps were late, trying to get in early (everyone always has a great reason they're early and can't use it later) to people who can and should be on the line then. The fact remains, people coming late to FP is a courtesy, not something people should be flaunting in their faces, in my opinion. But until Disney says something, I guess we just have to accept how it is.
-Nicholas

Working as a CP for four months at BTM does by no means make you an expert. Your numbers are also wrong. If an attraction can put through 1000 ppl an hour they do not hand out 800 FP. That's ridiculous. Then when you did your 80-20 ratio, that wouldn't account for the late arrivals, GAC Cards, Rider Switch, or Re-Entry Passes. Disney does careful studies and figures out how many other ppl come through the line and re-adjust the numbers accordingly. Thats why they where probably scanning the tickets at Buzz.

 

[figmentmom]

When I worked at Everest, over a year ago, we were instructed to collect fastpass and then give all of the tickets we received to researchers who scanned every single one when it was used. This was used as a research effort to find out when guests actually come back for their fastpass times...

In my experience though, a lot of guests don't know that you can come back after your fastpass scheduled window.

:xmas:

Same for me at Peter Pan last summer. We simply handed our collected fastpasses at the merge position to researchers, who scanned them all for data collection purposes.

 

[figmentmom]

I tend to disagree on this point - it is so much more than merge doing their job right. Really is and I having spent months at BTM, I have seen dozens of reasons for a back up and have to tell you, with at least BTM in particular, you're very inaccurate. If grouper is not going as quickly as they should, leaving rows empty, it slows down the line. If dispatch or unload are taking their time, slowing down dispatch, allowing the other station to steal the dispatch or worse - both are going slowly, it'll be messed up. If exit is having trouble loading someone (ECV, disability, someone over the safety line), you cannot dispatch to send it. If you're bringing out another train, for a moment, you must hold your dispatch, waiting for a certain thing to happen. So, I could be at merge, being the best merge CM of all time, and if anyone of those things happened (which they did daily), doesn't matter. Backup and then offset number of people on fp makes it worse, compounding the backup.

Additionally, fastpass is designed to give out (depending on the setting so the number can fluctuate) 80% of the amount of guests we can handle that hour, allowing for 20% on standby. It is figured on guests we can handle per hour. So if, let's say we can handle 1000 people per hour for the hour of 10-11 am (just for a hypothetical number), so we give out 800 fastpasses. Let's say 400 of those people decided to come back at 5 pm. Well, now, 5 pm is trying to accomodate it's 1000 people, plus this additional 400. They give out FP to compacity (as a fact), so then additional people over that number WILL in fact cause a slow down on both lines, because to keep FP moving properly, you have to cut into the number of standby you can use. So, yes, even a merge guy is doing a perfect job, you can still be faced with a particularly rough line.

And you'd be shocked by the number of late FPs. Some days I would see them in a nearly even ratio - people whose fps were late, trying to get in early (everyone always has a great reason they're early and can't use it later) to people who can and should be on the line then. The fact remains, people coming late to FP is a courtesy, not something people should be flaunting in their faces, in my opinion. But until Disney says something, I guess we just have to accept how it is.
-Nicholas

I completely agree. I've worked Peter Pan (a NOTORIOUS bottleneck) the last three summers, and there are an amazing number of variables that cause the system to fail. Huge tour groups who all come back at precisely the same time during their one-hour window of return time are part of the problem, but certainly not the whole issue. That's why research was there, collecting data.

 

[KingdomHeart]

I agree. I've worked at plenty of FP attractions (All of Epcot and Most of the MK, including BTM) and if you do your job right at merge then you won't have a problem.

Working as a CP for four months at BTM does by no means make you an expert. Your numbers are also wrong. If an attraction can put through 1000 ppl an hour they do not hand out 800 FP. That's ridiculous. Then when you did your 80-20 ratio, that wouldn't account for the late arrivals, GAC Cards, Rider Switch, or Re-Entry Passes. Disney does careful studies and figures out how many other ppl come through the line and re-adjust the numbers accordingly. Thats why they where probably scanning the tickets at Buzz.

Okie dokie. I never called myself an expert. I was on a message board and thought I was permitted to contribute, with whatever knowledge I had. I said for BTM constantly, because that's what I know, so that's all I was talking about. My numbers (while I gave 1000 which clearly isn't right) are based on what numerous coordinators and managers have said to me. Your opinion can dessent from mine and that's fine. This never started to sound personal but you clearly phrased your response is a way that makes me sound foolish.

Having often wound up in merge through rotation (more often than seemed logical), even if I did my job right, there could be a back up on the ride. You're saying that if the grouper gets into an argument with a guest (as I saw happen a few times) and stops grouping to deal with it, if the lines stop moving as quickly, if I did my job better, I'd be fine?

I appreciate that you disagree. However, I know the facts I know from my time working there. When you watch the coordinator set the fastpass machine in the morning and he tells you "It's set to 80% ride capacity per hour" you kind of have to believe him. So, yeah. Careful studies and this is what they landed on. You cannot count for late arrivals, rider switches, etc, more than x number average. And you know what, I'm sure they did. If your experience indicates otherwise to you, then that's fine and works for me. We can all share our opinions on the boards - that's why we join them. My problem here is not you implying I'm liar or wrong or anything. It's how you said it. You were needlessly rude. Please, feel free to share your opinions with me, as this is a message board, but do it in a way that does not call me ridiculous. I never attacked people who save up their fastpasses, but rather joined in a discussion as to why it is not in the best interest of everyone, using facts I knew to support it. You, however, were unkind.

-Nicholas

 

[figmentmom]

Okie dokie. I never called myself an expert. I was on a message board and thought I was permitted to contribute, with whatever knowledge I had. I said for BTM constantly, because that's what I know, so that's all I was talking about. My numbers (while I gave 1000 which clearly isn't right) are based on what numerous coordinators and managers have said to me. Your opinion can dessent from mine and that's fine. This never started to sound personal but you clearly phrased your response is a way that makes me sound foolish.

Having often wound up in merge through rotation (more often than seemed logical), even if I did my job right, there could be a back up on the ride. You're saying that if the grouper gets into an argument with a guest (as I saw happen a few times) and stops grouping to deal with it, if the lines stop moving as quickly, if I did my job better, I'd be fine?

I appreciate that you disagree. However, I know the facts I know from my time working there. When you watch the coordinator set the fastpass machine in the morning and he tells you "It's set to 80% ride capacity per hour" you kind of have to believe him. So, yeah. Careful studies and this is what they landed on. You cannot count for late arrivals, rider switches, etc, more than x number average. And you know what, I'm sure they did. If your experience indicates otherwise to you, then that's fine and works for me. We can all share our opinions on the boards - that's why we join them. My problem here is not you implying I'm liar or wrong or anything. It's how you said it. You were needlessly rude. Please, feel free to share your opinions with me, as this is a message board, but do it in a way that does not call me ridiculous. I never attacked people who save up their fastpasses, but rather joined in a discussion as to why it is not in the best interest of everyone, using facts I knew to support it. You, however, were unkind.

-Nicholas

Gracefully said, Nicholas, and I agree.

 

[maxime29]

I figured Disney would start doing this, but I didn't expect it now.

As for the late arrival FP discussion, I mentioned some stuff about it in a thread I posted a while back about the topic. I say just let them in to keep the guest happy, as long as they got the FP that same day.

 

[the-reason14]

So its been officially confirmed that they're doing this? Did someone see this? I didnt recall if someone confirmed this or not.

 

[figmentmom]

As for the late arrival FP discussion, I mentioned some stuff about it in a thread I posted a while back about the topic. I say just let them in to keep the guest happy, as long as they got the FP that same day.

We do in Fantasyland, but don't try it over at Soarin'. :ROFLOL:

 

[pjammer]

Having often wound up in merge through rotation (more often than seemed logical), even if I did my job right, there could be a back up on the ride. You're saying that if the grouper gets into an argument with a guest (as I saw happen a few times) and stops grouping to deal with it, if the lines stop moving as quickly, if I did my job better, I'd be fine?

I won't deny that there are other variables that can cause lines so slow or stop, but at merge, if you watch your line and adjust ratios accordingly then you should be fine. If you have a gap of ppl returning you don't just stop the standby line at 20 then say you have to wait for 80 fp ppl to come back. you adjust the ratio for the condition. Same thing if the line stops for awhile. You let a bunch of FP ppl come through so to adjust for the condition. That's what a good merge CM does.

So its been officially confirmed that they're doing this? Did someone see this? I didnt recall if someone confirmed this or not.

Yes it was being done at Buzz. Just for a study by the bean counters to determine FP factors probably.

 

[Brian Noble]

don't try it over at Soarin'.

Normally, not a problem. There have been two periods when Soarin was not accepting late same-day returns as a matter of course. The first was the opening crew (as I understand it, of their own accord), but that did not last very long. The second was when they were re-doing the floors in the pre-show area, and routing FP guests in through the exit.

Other than that, Soarin' works the same as every other stateside FP-enabled attraction.