Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

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dadddio

Well-Known Member
mahnamahna101 said:
Love how you couldn't even argue the first point I made ;)

The point is that you directly support the dumbing down of a park that GASP was DESIGNED to be educational to begin with..:rolleyes: I'm not offended that people like Nemo (offended at the shell of his former self that Figment has become). Rather, I'm disappointed with the Imagineers that they aren't allow to build spectacular attractions that are fun with some education along the way

Walt loved edutainment - Great Moments with Abraham Lincoln, Adventures Through Inner Space, the PeopleMover, Carousel of Progress, his plans for Liberty Street, Edison Square and International Street, the slight tidbits of history in Main Street and Frontierland, even Jungle Cruise showed Americans animals they weren't accustomed to seeing back in 1955 (AA animals but still lol)

Epcot was designed for edutainment - and I'm not picky. I have no problem with Test Track, Mission - Space, and Soarin' - may all be overrated, but they give some educational value.

But Nemo is just a Fantasyland style dark ride now - nothing educational about the seas (Epcot is an educational theme park, so there should always be a little something to learn on each ride). Three Caballeros teach me nothing about Mexico or entertain me currently - they could, but Disney value engineered it.

I doubt Frozen's overlay of Maelstrom will be remotely educational about Norwegian culture. Imagination 3.0 is a shell of its former shelf.

I bet you love Dinorama, huh? Kids have FUN on it. So it must be good if SOMEONE had fun. Who cares about theming? Someone had fun ;)

I'm more annoyed at your total lack of understanding towards Epcot's theme/vision than I am the general public's tendency to turn their brains off when they're anywhere but school/work.
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Well golly, now that you dropped Walt's name, I guess you automatically win. No one should like anything about Epcot that doesn't educate them. Fun for fun's sake will no longer be tolerated in this park.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
mahnamahna101 said:
It's simple. Certain movies are high quality regardless of one's opinion of how much they enjoyed it. The Godfather is high quality. Citizen Kane is high quality. Casablanca, Modern Times, Psycho, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Wizard of Oz, Mary Poppins, Back to the Future, The Shawshank Redemption - all well done even if one personally did not take a liking to the film itself.

POTC, HM, Big Thunder, Space, Splash, ToT, Spidey, Popeye, FJ, JttCotE, Indy - all well done, high quality attractions that can't be considered truly "bad". Even if you didn't personally like it, the ride is still a spectacular feat in theming, thrills, etc.

Certain pieces of media are just admirable feats even if you aren't particularly fond of it.

And anyone who thinks The Godfather is genuinely Michael Bay/Tyler Perry bad obviously doesn't need to be watching movies...
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Has anyone in this thread come out against the Godfather? Does anyone even care?
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
BigTxEars said:
Except when too many guys are involved the debate seems to need one of these eventually.

2lnxxf9.jpg


;)
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You know that those are centimeters, right? :joyfull:
 
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mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
dadddio said:
Well golly, now that you dropped Walt's name, I guess you automatically win. No one should like anything about Epcot that doesn't educate them. Fun for fun's sake will no longer be tolerated in this park.
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Clearly you don't have any respect for Walt or Epcot - and also can't come up with an intelligent counter argument based on the quote above.

I never said fun for fun's sake shouldn't be allowed. Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios are parks for pure fun. But Epcot was designed to combine education and fun - Spaceship Earth, Journey into Imagination, Living With the Land, World of Motion, The Living Seas, Wonders of Life.. Future World taught you a little without losing the fun. World Showcase does a little, but the Three Caballeros and soon to be Frozen overlay kinda muddle the message. And it's not meant to educate too much.

The Seas With Nemo and Friends is pretty mediocre aside from Turtle Talk. Mission - Space is considered a puke machine by many.

But I have no quaims with Test Track and Soarin'. Those are "fun for fun's sake" attractions.

Do you even know what Epcot was created for? Clearly you don't know if all you want it to be is fun - edutainment has been a part of Disney's history for quite some time. No reason for it to go away.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
mahnamahna101 said:
Do you even know what Epcot was created for? Clearly you don't know if all you want it to be is fun - edutainment has been a part of Disney's history for quite some time. No reason for it to go away.
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Of course I know what Epcot was created for. The company felt that having two theme parks on property would be more profitable than having one theme park on the property.

I also know why you think that it was created, because you and a few others keep telling us.

It should also be noted that no one has argued that 'edutainment' must go away. That is just you trying to twist other people's posts so that you can 'win'.
 
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mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
dadddio said:
Of course I know what Epcot was created for. The company felt that having two theme parks on property would be more profitable than having one theme park on the property.

I also know why you think that it was created, because you and a few others keep telling us.

It should also be noted that no one has argued that 'edutainment' must go away. That is just you trying to twist other people's posts so that you can 'win'.
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That's the Paul Pressler explanation for sure.. not sure if the Imagineers who designed the park would agree ;)

If everything is just stocks/profits with you, then that might explain your attitude. Most of the people on here care about immersion, theming and quality... not just "Epcot is making money from this fun stuff!" and the park itself isn't themed to profits so clearly Epcot started out with the theme that has been mentioned before.

I didn't try to twist your words.. you clearly have stated fun for fun's sake is more important than education.

And by definition, consensus determines whether people care or not
 
righttrack

righttrack

Well-Known Member
Letting Potter slip was awful. It's a ripe franchise and end-to-end a great universe of characters and stories. It's as mature as Star Wars (gasp!) in less years. People who are 16-25 years old right now identify with these characters and stories. They will introduce their children to them and give them a new life.

If you look at Star Wars, that is more my generation and yes, my children were introduced to the franchise. New movies coming out, will solidify that, but because it's younger, by 35 years, HP will last longer as an investment.
 
Skip

Skip

Well-Known Member
dadddio said:
I get his point with the Godfather thing. He is arguing that quality is something that can be decided and that any personal opinions (that run contrary to his) don't matter. I get his point. I merely think it's bunk.
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Then you're disagreeing with the very fundamentals of how quality and critique are perceived... but hey, that's fine. Anything to be the contrarian.

It's a weird thing - this whole new idea that everyone's opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's, that no true objective measure of quality exists. This may be controversial (and I realize I'm expanding from my initial argument here), but I say that's silly. An informed opinion is always going to be far more valuable than an uninformed opinion. Some are more qualified to give informed opinions than others depending on the arena. We as a society have recently taken on this urge to value everyone's opinion with equal weight... which really makes no sense considering the amount of uninformed opinions out there. There's a reason we have the electoral college versus a direct democracy in the United States - early government officials understood this notion. Why we can't seem to today amazes me.

But more to the point - you can't have what's called a good attraction without understanding what a bad attraction is. The opinion that the bad attraction is better than the good... well, that's a matter of your opinion of enjoyment, not an opinion of objective quality. You can't suggest that Stitch's Great Escape is a superior attraction to The American Adventure (you could try! but your argument would fall apart almost immediately).

Everyone is not on the same playing field. Some opinions are more valid than others. Some things will be bad and fail, others will be good and succeed. That's the reality.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Skip said:
It's a weird thing - this whole new idea that everyone's opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's, that no true objective measure of quality exists. This may be controversial (and I realize I'm expanding from my initial argument here), but I say that's silly. An informed opinion is always going to be far more valuable than an uninformed opinion. Some are more qualified to give informed opinions than others depending on the arena. We as a society have recently taken on this urge to value everyone's opinion with equal weight... which really makes no sense considering the amount of uninformed opinions out there. There's a reason we have the electoral college versus a direct democracy in the United States - early government officials understood this notion. Why we can't seem to today amazes me.
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The lack of equality amongst opinions is well established and the recent attempts to undo this natural acknowledgement of knowledge is not a good development in society. There is a reason we seek out doctors for medical opinions. There is a reason we seek out lawyers for legal opinions. The entire basis of specialization and professions is based on some opinions being more valuable than others.

What is amazing though is how strong and ferocious the sentiment against something more is amongst Disney, theme park and amusement park fans. There are large segments that praise aimlessness and consider it better than aspiration. Knowledge and understanding is something to be mocked and derided as obsessive and abnormal. It is all the silly amusement of children, nothing more.
 
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dadddio

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
The lack of equality amongst opinions is well established and the recent attempts to undo this natural acknowledgement of knowledge is not a good development in society. There is a reason we seek out doctors for medical opinions. There is a reason we seek out lawyers for legal opinions. The entire basis of specialization and professions is based on some opinions being more valuable than others.
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That's all awesome, and all, but this conversation was about whether one person is allowed to have the opinion that one attraction is enjoyable and to further enjoy one attraction more than another one. As such, only that one person's opinion matters.
 
SJN1279

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
righttrack said:
Letting Potter slip was awful. It's a ripe franchise and end-to-end a great universe of characters and stories. It's as mature as Star Wars (gasp!) in less years. People who are 16-25 years old right now identify with these characters and stories. They will introduce their children to them and give them a new life.

If you look at Star Wars, that is more my generation and yes, my children were introduced to the franchise. New movies coming out, will solidify that, but because it's younger, by 35 years, HP will last longer as an investment.
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I rather own Pixar and Star Wars, then rent Potter from JK and WB. If Disney landed Potter, they may have lost Pixar and probably never would have purchased Star Wars. I think Disney got the better end of the deal.
 

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