Disney once again showing why...

[Billy Chin]

I appreciate your thoughts. I never used the word "hate", but the tone of some here is so overwhelmingly negative and lacking in any sort of constructive tone that it is easy to wonder why some would continue to waste their time with it. Your views were well expressed, and I thank you for the clarity.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

It's far from a "ridiculous question" to wonder why people continue to criticize something which they no longer care for or agree with. As I said, when I'm unsatisfied as a consumer, I move on and find a better experience that suits my needs. Just curious why some choose not to do that.

I started going to WDW Dec.'71. And have been there hundreds of times. I still love the Disney Quality experience that I grew up with that WDW refuses to provide and can still get at Disneyland Resort, Tokyo Disneyland, the Disney Cruise Line and to a slightly lesser extent in Hong Kong, Paris, and at Universal Resort Orlando. It is infuriating that WDW can very much provide that exact same experience and might I add that they are charging more than ever for but refuse, and I mean REFUSE to deliver at WDW. It really is just insulting. We would LOVE for WDW to get back to basics instead of real estate projects and ways to manipulate us into paying more for a deminished product.

 

[Kuhio]

The most vocal critics here are typically those who most love Disney. That's precisely why they bother to expend so much time and energy discussing the product: they hope that, in some small way, what they say here can inspire those in charge of the product to undertake positive change that will make the product more worthy of everyone's patronage in the future.

I've never understood the idea that those who say anything that's at all negative about the parks must not care for them or must find them valueless.

Take movie critics as an example: you'd have to truly love movies to be a movie critic, yet critics provide negative criticism of movies every day -- sometimes criticism that comes across as harsh. Implicit in the critic's job is the aspiration that, by providing guidance to the public about what movies are worthy of their money, quality products are rewarded with patronage, and inferior products are not. In theory, this would encourage studios to produce more quality movies, enriching the market for everyone who appreciates watching them.

On a message board like this one, everyone is -- to some degree -- an amateur critic who seeks to effect positive change. Someone who doesn't care for WDW and other Disney parks is not going to waste time posting here when there are countless other things in the world to occupy their attention.

I find posts that provide constructive criticism to offer a far greater contribution to meaningful discussion than posts whose content suggests that Disney is infallible and that its products should never be considered with any substantive discernment.

 

[Billy Chin]

I started going to WDW Dec.'71. And have been there hundreds of times. I still love the Disney Quality experience that I grew up with that WDW refuses to provide and can still get at Disneyland Resort, Tokyo Disneyland, the Disney Cruise Line and to a slightly lesser extent in Hong Kong, Paris, and at Universal Resort Orlando. It is infuriating that WDW can very much provide that exact same experience and might I add that they are charging more than ever for but refuse, and I mean REFUSE to deliver at WDW. It really is just insulting. We would LOVE for WDW to get back to basics instead of real estate projects and ways to manipulate us into paying more for a deminished product.

Why do you keep "consuming" a product that you find inferior?

 

[Billy Chin]

The most vocal critics here are typically those who most love Disney. That's precisely why they bother to expend so much time and energy discussing the product: they hope that, in some small way, what they say here can inspire those in charge of the product to undertake positive change that will make the product more worthy of everyone's patronage in the future.

I've never understood the idea that those who say anything that's at all negative about the parks must not care for them or must find them valueless.

Take movie critics as an example: you'd have to truly love movies to be a movie critic, yet critics provide negative criticism of movies every day -- sometimes criticism that comes across as harsh. Implicit in the critic's job is the aspiration that, by providing guidance to the public about what movies are worthy of their money, quality products are rewarded with patronage, and inferior products are not. In theory, this would encourage studios to produce more quality movies, enriching the market for everyone who appreciates watching them.

On a message board like this one, everyone is -- to some degree -- an amateur critic who seeks to effect positive change. Someone who doesn't care for WDW and other Disney parks is not going to waste time posting here when there are countless other things in the world to occupy their attention.

I find posts that provide constructive criticism to offer a far greater contribution to meaningful discussion than posts whose content suggests that Disney is infallible and that its products should never be considered with any substantive discernment.

Thanks for your reply. Curious as to why so little of the criticism here is constructive or thoughtful, though? The first two replies to my query responded not with though but with personal attacks, much as the criticism that is commonly offered. I'll stop now as I really don't want a massive debate on the matter, but was simply curious as to what motivates people to do certain things. Thanks for the responses.

 

[George]

Why do you keep "consuming" a product that you find inferior?

Many of us are consuming less of the product. However, I find SNL to be a good analog. If you're a fan of sketch comedy, you keep watching SNL even when it's in the midst of a decade of suckiness because there aren't a lot of other alternatives. Universal and SW have upped their games and provide what is in many ways a superior alternative to Disney, but it's still not Disney. So, yeah, some of us will still got to EPCOT from time to time and enjoy ourselves. BUT, we'll still remember better days and see things that agitate. For all of us, there will be a point of no return. For most, there is hope that things will turn around before this point is reached. Capiche?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Thanks for your reply. Curious as to why so little of the criticism here is constructive or thoughtful, though? The first two replies to my query responded not with though but with personal attacks, much as the criticism that is commonly offered. I'll stop now as I really don't want a massive debate on the matter, but was simply curious as to what motivates people to do certain things. Thanks for the responses.

Why is it so hard to understand? Can someone be critical of what they see as missteps and decline in product and still enjoy it? I mean, if your favorite sports team suddenly has a losing season, do you just stop rooting for them or watching them ever again?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Why do you keep "consuming" a product that you find inferior?

I don't, I let my AP expire in March 2011. I am biding my time and am hopeful they will change course. I am just fortunate that I can see Hogwarts from my house.
That said, I have been comped into WDW twice since I let my pass expire. Mainly so I can knowledgeably discuss current offerings. While I was there I did "consume" a fine lunch with fine friends at the Biergarten and 1 LaFrou's Brew (so I could compare to to Butterbeer) and believe it or not I preferred LaFrou's even though I am a HUGE Harry Potter fan AND a recent Uni Fanboi (can I call myself that at 49 years old?).

 

[George]

Thanks for your reply. Curious as to why so little of the criticism here is constructive or thoughtful, though? The first two replies to my query responded not with though but with personal attacks, much as the criticism that is commonly offered. I'll stop now as I really don't want a massive debate on the matter, but was simply curious as to what motivates people to do certain things. Thanks for the responses.

Actually, I find a ton of the stuff on here to be constructive and thoughtful. I mean there's a ton of things like quit homogenizing merchandise and french fries, put up Christmas decorations in the parks, quit just marketing to parents of small children, invest 1.5 billion in attractions and not in NextGen.... people write multi paragraph posts about their thoughts on this stuff.

 

[TalkingHead]

We've all got different stories about how we became WDW regulars, but I suspect most of us so-called critics took our first trips in the 70s or 80s. Pre-2000, at any rate.

I personally find WDW's current business model offensive. Raise ticket prices every year -- and sometimes multiple times per year -- while diminishing what is offered to the day guest. I don't stay in the resorts, because I've got family in Orlando, so the parks are for me the most important part of the resort, though you'd never know it from the way WDW does business. I find it hard to believe anyone could argue the last ten years of WDW history have been anywhere near as impressive as the first few decades of WDW operations.

Fewer new attractions. What new attractions there are, aren't home runs because Disney doesn't swing for the fence in Orlando. The attitude has been, "Why bother?" They can trot out a social media campaign for a one-time-use dragon and get the Orlando Sentinel reporter to ask, "Will we see this again?" and the Disney suit will reply with a twinkle in his eye, "We'll just have to wait and see!"

It's baloney. I really think WDW is running on fumes. Fantasyland might be worth a drop or two in the tank, but not much more.

I don't hate the place. I have great memories of visiting over the years. But the way the parks are managed is infuriating. And I think the last few years they've bottomed out.

In the meantime, other parks in Orlando are capable of creating attractions and environments that make me feel the way Disney did when they were at the top of their game. Go figure. It can be done. It's not that all of us online critics can't be pleased (as is sometimes claimed). But seriously, when was the last time you can say Disney brought their A-game to Orlando? Is Fantasyland? Is Mermaid the new Haunted Mansion or Pirates or Space Mountain or Tower of Terror? Doesn't sound like it.

Yet Universal, the redheaded stepchild who, according to some Disney fans, lacks magic and imagination, manages to create Spider-man and Forbidden Journey which really are this generation's Pirates and Mansion. As much as I love Universal, that's depressing for anyone who grew up a Disney fan. The Mouse doesn't make magic in Orlando anymore like he used to.

And be sure, it isn't only online fans who are noting the changes at WDW. CMs notice it. People in Orlando who have been to the parks over the years have started to notice it. Disney's coasting on reputation at this point, and I think some of the interest in the current resort is out of morbid curiosity. How deluded is the resort's management? Shockingly so, I'd say. Will that change? Fingers crossed.

 

[WildcatDen]

My kids waited for Ross to perform and then it was back to the presents. Wonder when R5 is going to get better backing from Disney and take off???

 

[WildcatDen]

Why is it so hard to understand? Can someone be critical of what they see as missteps and decline in product and still enjoy it? I mean, if your favorite sports team suddenly has a losing season, do you just stop rooting for them or watching them ever again?

For some of my friends, yup. They wear the "Fair Weather" tag with pride. Then again, I like eggs.

 

[Captain Chaos]

For some of my friends, yup. They wear the "Fair Weather" tag with pride. Then again, I like eggs.

They aren't real fans. I'm talking real fans, not front runners... Real fans do not give up on their team while the team is in the midst of a down period... Real WDW fans won't give up on WDW during the down period... Real fans will stick by them and yet can still be critical...

 

[iYazmo]

I felt that it was all one giant commercial. At this point, I feel Samantha Brown is basically on the payroll, just like someone stated earlier. Although the floats were good, and some were the same from last year, I did enjoy last year's parade better. That's just me. :/ I would prefer the parade to me live.

Since they're the only one's doing the Christmas Parade on TV, they can be considered the best, but also the worst, because they really don't have anyone above or below them. It's just...them.

 

[alissafalco]

As a long time reader of this forum, I've usually enjoyed the exchanges here (even when I've disagreed with various views).

I do wonder, however, why some of the most vocal Disney critics here continue to spend any of their valuable time concerning themselves with Disney. They clearly find little value in the parks, and it seems evident that the product is no longer worthy of their patronage. Further, the criticism is far from constructive, as it's generally both personal in nature and snarky in tone.

As a consumer, I can't think of any product or service that I no longer care for yet continue to dwell on or criticize. I simply move on to things that better suit me. Just curious as to why some here seem unwilling to do that. Not offering criticism as much as being truly curious why anyone would waste their time with something they don't like.

A long time reader yet you only became a member today??? Hmmmmm

 

[WildcatDen]

They aren't real fans. I'm talking real fans, not front runners... Real fans do not give up on their team while the team is in the midst of a down period... Real WDW fans won't give up on WDW during the down period... Real fans will stick by them and yet can still be critical...

Believe me, I am on board with most of what you say, but what is a real fan? I have a brother in law who graduated from Miami of Ohio. He is a Ben "Don't let your daughter go to the bathroom in the same bar" Rapeherberger fan and now follows the Steelers over the hometown Bengal's he grew up rooting for. A 'real' fan would NEVER root for or follow the competition. Case in point, I do not know of any Red Sox fans that started rooting for theYankees when Johnny Damon wore the pinstripes.

 

[WildcatDen]

A long time reader yet you only became a member today??? Hmmmmm

You may want to use the 'new' math. . .

 

[WDW1974]

You sure have a funny way of showing it.

Nah. I don't. You just don't understand adult critical discussion. I actually love WDW. One of my favorite places. I'd like it to stay that way. I don't like how it's being run or how Disney is manipulating fans through social media (hell, you may even be one of their trolls, you just never know). Anyone who read my thread and took away anything other than I enjoyed myself, but was also pointing out issues is reading their own agendas into what I post.

 

[WDW1974]

Someone from another site who went by the name DisPhilip. Guy appeared in all of Spirit's threads and disagreed with everything he said.

Almost certainly Phil Holmes.

The Bear dude is definitely Phil ... I sorta wish he were Holmes, but he is something else.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't, I let my AP expire in March 2011. I am biding my time and am hopeful they will change course. I am just fortunate that I can see Hogwarts from my house.
That said, I have been comped into WDW twice since I let my pass expire. Mainly so I can knowledgeably discuss current offerings. While I was there I did "consume" a fine lunch with fine friends at the Biergarten and 1 LaFrou's Brew (so I could compare to to Butterbeer) and believe it or not I preferred LaFrou's even though I am a HUGE Harry Potter fan AND a recent Uni Fanboi (can I call myself that at 49 years old?).

Does this mean you are a wizard?!?!? I DINED WITH A WIZARD?!?!??!?!?! Oh, WOW!!!!!!