News Disney offers to pay union members at least $15 by 2021

[grimb168]

Wow, I can't believe people are arguing over this pay raise. These will be the same people who will be yelling when the quality of their service goes down. I have been a frequent traveler to WDW since 1999 and have witnessed a huge change in the cast members. We are now seeing more and more college program cast being hired. I don't have a problem with this, but this translates to cheap labor for disney. We are also seeing many new WDW hires coming in as part time employees with many that work also at universal to make ends meet each week.

 

[sxeensweet]

But what's the Bacon of living like?

Well Bacon is a nice guy, but prefer Costner!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Before you posted a total fallacy regarding this. Now you are posting a half truth.

Automation is coming. It has NOTHING to do with starting hourly wage for CMs.

Dude I have three degrees in finance and accounting and almost ten years in corporate finance. This is literally what I do for a living and I'm damn good at it. I don't have the time or the patience to post twenty pages explaining how the math works, but you're the one posting half-truths.

Correct: Automation is coming no matter what.

Incorrect: The pace and scale of automation have nothing to do with labor inflation.

Automation initiatives are approved or denied based on their forecasted net present value, i.e. the discounted value of future savings minus the current investment in the automation technology. When wages go up, you're increasing the potential savings associated with cutting labor hours, increasing the amount of automation investment you're willing to make.

 

[ford91exploder]

That’s because that opinion is reflective of watching/forming their world view from a low rate squawbox show on “cable news”

It was never true...it never will be...higher wages put more money into the economy...including to the business and owners...in order to sell, you have to have someone to buy...

It’s pretty common sense.

Not to your average MBA, Yet this rule is why Henry Ford doubled his workers salaries so that they could afford to buy his cars.

 

[drew81]

And they wonder wire morale is low.

And they wonder why there's constant staffing issues.

Getting paid that much and dealing with idiotic managers doesn't go very far.

 

[Lensman]

This is a big socio-economic dilemma in that we naturally want all workers to be able to make a living wage and yet we want high labor efficiency to keep costs down so that prices can remain "low". [Disney doesn't deserve the adjective "low" anywhere near their prices]

And lest we become Luddites in our fear of automation leading to massive unemployment, we should remember the apocryphal story attributed to Milton Friedman:

At one of our dinners, Milton recalled traveling to an Asian country in the 1960s and visiting a worksite where a new canal was being built. He was shocked to see that, instead of modern tractors and earth movers, the workers had shovels. He asked why there were so few machines. The government bureaucrat explained: “You don’t understand. This is a jobs program.” To which Milton replied: “Oh, I thought you were trying to build a canal. If it’s jobs you want, then you should give these workers spoons, not shovels.”

So we might agree to think of automation as a way of improving labor productivity rather than as merely taking jobs away from people.

I'd also like to see starting wages at WDW set high enough to restore the true excitement that cast members consistently used to have back in the "good old days" [whenever those were]. Back then, the front-line staff were great brand ambassadors. I hope Disney management does whatever it needs to do to get back to that high standard. I think it's what really built the Disney Park's brand and it's customer preference moat against competition.

My personal preference? Raise the wages and raise the prices. To me, it's worth it.

 

[xdan0920]

Dude I have three degrees in finance and accounting and almost ten years in corporate finance. This is literally what I do for a living and I'm damn good at it. I don't have the time or the patience to post twenty pages explaining how the math works, but you're the one posting half-truths.

Correct: Automation is coming no matter what.

Incorrect: The pace and scale of automation have nothing to do with labor inflation.

Automation initiatives are approved or denied based on their forecasted net present value, i.e. the discounted value of future savings minus the current investment in the automation technology. When wages go up, you're increasing the potential savings associated with cutting labor hours, increasing the amount of automation investment you're willing to make.

This doesn’t require 3 business degrees. It doesn’t require 20 pages of notes. It barely requires 20 words.

We are discussing WDW. The truth is, they are already automating. Small scale wage increases over the next 3 years is not going to make any difference to the speed with which they continue the process. They are already going as fast as they can.

FWIW. I own a business, I don’t have 3 business degrees.

 

[xdan0920]

Wow, I can't believe people are arguing over this pay raise. These will be the same people who will be yelling when the quality of their service goes down.

Disagree, at least in this thread....

The people arguing against wage increases seem to be the folks eagerly lapping up Disney’s nickel and diming.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Imagine being the type of person who pays Disney thousands and thousands of dollars a year, but begrudges hourly CMs getting a raise.

The front line staff are the ones ultimately responsible for delivering and maintaining the systems and products (aka "magic") that these fans love.

But they're being called lazy addicts who are too stupid to find better work and should just suck it up no matter what happens?

I bet the guy in the Pooh costume would love to hear that the next time you eat at Crystal Palace.

 

[grimb168]

This is a big socio-economic dilemma in that we naturally want all workers to be able to make a living wage and yet we want high labor efficiency to keep costs down so that prices can remain "low". [Disney doesn't deserve the adjective "low" anywhere near their prices]

And lest we become Luddites in our fear of automation leading to massive unemployment, we should remember the apocryphal story attributed to Milton Friedman:


So we might agree to think of automation as a way of improving labor productivity rather than as merely taking jobs away from people.

I'd also like to see starting wages at WDW set high enough to restore the true excitement that cast members consistently used to have back in the "good old days" [whenever those were]. Back then, the front-line staff were great brand ambassadors. I hope Disney management does whatever it needs to do to get back to that high standard. I think it's what really built the Disney Park's brand and it's customer preference moat against competition.

My personal preference? Raise the wages and raise the prices. To me, it's worth it.

 

[grimb168]

This is 100% correct. I believe disneys "tax savings" will go a long long way to pay for the wage increase. Bottom line.... they can afford this.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sorry...I stepped out on this lower income class hate for avengers again.

Regarding automation...it’s not a debate of whether it saves money...of course it does.

The question is whether the wage increases their decision to automate? And it does not.

It’s not as though they say “well, at $11 we were gonna order 18 self service kiosks out of 20 at pecos...but since it’s $15, we’re getting 22...”

That number was ALWAYS gonna be 22...it’s not done on half measures. It’s maximum automation with minimum staffing where feasible.

I’d rather who’s left make $20...frankly.

There is a complete false equivalency there.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But what's the Bacon of living like?

...fell off my chair...

And I have to add that I hear the state legislature is passing a new jobs bill in the Commonwealth of Macchio next week...

 

[Disone]

Is this directed at me, or did you quote me on accident?

I asked a question because the poster I quoted made a statement that looked like it may not be true.

sorry. I didn't notice the ? My bad.

 

[Disone]

My post is correct. My post and this entire thread are referencing hourly cast members covered by the STCU. Those cast members do not receive merit raises. They receive raises based on service time consistent with other cast members at those same milestones covered by the STCU. They do not receive raises based on performance.

IMO, Your post was.... incomplete. I filled in the gaps. And I specified hourly because STCU or not, the raises are the same.

 

[larryz]

...fell off my chair...

And I have to add that I hear the state legislature is passing a new jobs bill in the Commonwealth of Macchio next week...

That's a shame. I imagine they'll make half of the people wax on, while the other half must wax off. And all for less than the $15 per hour they'll be making in WDW if (a) they're in the union, (b) they still have a job in 2020, and (c) the world doesn't suffer another economic setback between now and then.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Wow, I can't believe people are arguing over this pay raise. These will be the same people who will be yelling when the quality of their service goes down. I have been a frequent traveler to WDW since 1999 and have witnessed a huge change in the cast members. We are now seeing more and more college program cast being hired. I don't have a problem with this, but this translates to cheap labor for disney. We are also seeing many new WDW hires coming in as part time employees with many that work also at universal to make ends meet each week.

College Program and Disney Dining Plan have been the two biggest detriments to the guest experience WDW has seen. FP is not far behind, except on peak attractions during peak seasons.

 

[Driver]

Consider this though.. someone spends a lot of money on a degree/degrees, they enter a position and bust their bums, they then work through the promotion ladder and still bust their bums, they miss their children’s events, they get phone calls/emails/texts while out with their family or on vacation.. they consistently work over 40 hours per week, at the office, at home, and wherever they may be. They do not get to leave work at work.

But someone in an hourly wage low skilled job, who does get to leave their work at the workplace -they should be able to work only 40 hours per week and be paid enough to be comfortable with their finances.

I am not saying that a ride operator or guest services rep doesn’t work hard, but we have to consider what we’re asking for. An entry level wage isn’t supposed to be a long term wage.

In a perfect world, everyone would be comfortable. But it’s not a perfect world, and there is a reason that some positions receive a higher pay than others.

Agreed, I'm one of those people that busted my buns many years ago. My pay off was an early retirement (51) I'm here now on my terms to have fun. But not all who are in a bad way suffer from self inflicted wounds. Many things can happen in life that are out of your control like a financial draining illness.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This doesn’t require 3 business degrees. It doesn’t require 20 pages of notes. It barely requires 20 words.

We are discussing WDW. The truth is, they are already automating. Small scale wage increases over the next 3 years is not going to make any difference to the speed with which they continue the process. They are already going as fast as they can.

FWIW. I own a business, I don’t have 3 business degrees.

It’s a “product” world...everything is a retail product when you boil it down.

...including that particular “product”. It’s not that it doesn’t have merit or isn’t an accomplishment...it’s that a campus is also a storefront, and the advisor, placement offices, and alumni networks are selling a product to a consumer for a high fee. Especially since the 1980’s.

It’s really the result of a post industrial western world...and part of the phenomenon that ends in us debating whether a Place that costs a fortune - and goes up every year - should pay their workers what amounts to peanuts on the grand scale. You see this all time...”degree fueled hate”. It’s almost comes off as “buyers remorse”. It’s so weird.

The only valid complaint here is a worry that higher employee wages will be directly responsible for price increases. And in this case that is not valid. Cast hourly rates don’t really affect pricing...no matter what they told you at the factory of academia.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

College Program and Disney Dining Plan have been the two biggest detriments to the guest experience WDW has seen. FP is not far behind, except on peak attractions during peak seasons.

There are exceptions, but I typically have much more pleasant interactions with the CPs than the full timers.