News Disney offers to pay union members at least $15 by 2021

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
That is just simply false.

There is a cost to automation. It is not free. Disney would not pursue it unless it would save them more money than it costs.

When hourly wages go up, including those of entry level cast members, labor costs Disney more and the benefit of automation becomes greater. Thus, automation becomes more likely.

Why that is so difficult to see I don't understand.
Not surprised you are finding it difficult.

Let me slow it down for you.

Automation saves money. Period. Full stop.

The fractional increases CMs are asking for have no impact long term on automation. An employee making $12 and hour with all associated costs and an employee making $15 are the same when it comes to automating.

You know how I know this?????

Because it is already happening.

Jobs won’t disappear any faster then they already are.
 

Tom P.

Well-Known Member
Not surprised you are finding it difficult.

Let me slow it down for you.

Automation saves money. Period. Full stop.

The fractional increases CMs are asking for have no impact long term on automation. An employee making $12 and hour with all associated costs and an employee making $15 are the same when it comes to automating.

You know how I know this?????

Because it is already happening.

Jobs won’t disappear any faster then they already are.
If you believe that automation always saves money and that a change in labor costs has no impact on that, then there is nothing more that I can add to this conversation. Clearly, you are not going to be convinced. But you are just wrong. There is not even a grey area here. What you said is just 100% false.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
If you believe that automation always saves money and that a change in labor costs has no impact on that, then there is nothing more that I can add to this conversation. Clearly, you are not going to be convinced. But you are just wrong. There is not even a grey area here. What you said is just 100% false.
Ok. Tom. Where is your evidence that automation isn’t saving money right now????

My evidence is all the food ordering kiosks. The online check in. The new entry points where 1 CM mans multiples.

It is already saving TWDC money!!!!

This is not hard to grasp Tom.
 

Tom P.

Well-Known Member
Ok. Tom. Where is your evidence that automation isn’t saving money right now????

My evidence is all the food ordering kiosks. The online check in. The new entry points where 1 CM mans multiples.

It is already saving TWDC money!!!!

This is not hard to grasp Tom.
Imagine being the type of person who pays Disney thousands and thousands of dollars a year, but begrudges hourly CMs getting a raise.

:banghead:
Okay, let's start with a clarification... I absolutely do not begrudge cast members getting a raise. I don't believe you will find anywhere that I have said that. In fact, as a fan of Walt Disney World, I would prefer to see the cast members make more. Not only does that benefit them but, from a selfish perspective, my family and I are likely to receive better service from people who are well paid and not constantly stressed about their finances.

But that being said, I understand why Disney wants to keep labor costs at a certain level, I understand the impact that labor costs have on a business, and I understand that the cost of automation is always balanced against the cost of labor. If the cost of labor changes, that impacts the calculus on automation. Yes, even if Disney is already doing some automation. It impacts how much more they are going to do and at what speed.

And, yes, like it or not, I also understand that jobs have a certain value in the marketplace. People will line up for miles to get a job at WDW. And when you are talking about entry-level, hourly, front-line CM jobs, almost anyone can do the job. So it's not like Disney has to fight to get people to come work for them.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
That is just simply false.

There is a cost to automation. It is not free. Disney would not pursue it unless it would save them more money than it costs.

When hourly wages go up, including those of entry level cast members, labor costs Disney more and the benefit of automation becomes greater. Thus, automation becomes more likely.

Why that is so difficult to see I don't understand.
As @xdan0920 says, though, this is already where we are. In positions where companies like Disney can get a computer screen to do the task of a worker, it is always going to be cheaper to run that computer unless wages drop down to starvation levels. It's not a reason for workers they can't yet get rid of yet to gratefully accept whatever Disney will give them... until Disney finds a way to eliminate their position, too.

The social breakdown that this is bringing about is already playing out across America. Yet people keep spouting this nonsense that all these displaced and underpaid workers should work hard until they ascend into one of the apparently unlimited number of blue collar positions available to anyone with a bit of get up and go.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
I understand that the cost of automation is always balanced against the cost of labor. If the cost of labor changes, that impacts the calculus on automation. Yes, even if Disney is already doing some automation. It impacts how much more they are going to do and at what speed.

That’s where you are wrong though. The calculus changes, the result doesn’t. Automating saves money. Wether it saves x or y is immaterial.

Disney will automate to save x or y, if they can get away with it from a guest stand point. We are the ones standing between Disney and full automation. Guests, erm, slowness in learning new systems leads to heavy inefficiencies. Which is bad.

Anyhoo.....

My point was, and remains, $3 an hour over 3 years has zero impact on the speed at which TWDC is automating.
 

rricks26

Member
There’s more to it than just the ot being taken away. Disney wants to essentially get rid of any union involvement on day to day operations. This includes getting rid of cms set schedules every week, Disney can force transfer a union representative out of the location at any time with no reason, a union representative does not have to be present if a cm is getting a trouble, if a cm wants to transfer out of a location they can not have had more than 2 points over the course of a year (that equates to calling in no more than twice, you get 1 point for calling in, .5 point for being late) The entire dynamic of how the company is currently run changes in Disney’s favor.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
There’s more to it than just the ot being taken away. Disney wants to essentially get rid of any union involvement on day to day operations. This includes getting rid of cms set schedules every week, Disney can force transfer a union representative out of the location at any time with no reason, a union representative does not have to be present if a cm is getting a trouble, if a cm wants to transfer out of a location they can not have had more than 2 points over the course of a year (that equates to calling in no more than twice, you get 1 point for calling in, .5 point for being late) The entire dynamic of how the company is currently run changes in Disney’s favor.

An employee is never allowed to be sick without receiving a negative point on their record?
 

rricks26

Member
An employee is never allowed to be sick without receiving a negative point on their record?
You get a certain amount of call in sick free days but, there are stipulations to receiving them and, only “full time” cms get them. There’s only a handfull of full time classified cms in a specific location in comparison to the many many part time ones. Hours worked don’t apply either. A part time worker can work 50 hours a week but, not receive the same full time benefits.
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
There are no merit raises.
Incorrect. If you are not hourly, there is most definitely a merit raise. If your hourly there's a rate you get for starting, which is the $15 being discussed here. And then there's the rate you get for being a one-year cast member, a two-year cast member, a three-year cast member, a four-year cast member, and it keeps going until you hit a top out rate. Which is well into the double digits of years served. In either case, hourly or not hourly, There is almost most always a annual pay raise. In the case of the hourly, that is a specified dollar amount as dictated in the terms of the contract, and the case of the non hourly it is a percentage based on performance.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
You get a certain amount of call in sick free days but, there are stipulations to receiving them and, only “full time” cms get them. There’s only a handfull of full time classified cms in a specific location in comparison to the many many part time ones. Hours worked don’t apply either. A part time worker can work 50 hours a week but, not receive the same full time benefits.
If a part time cast member consistently works 50 hour weeks they will quickly get capped.
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
An employee is never allowed to be sick without receiving a negative point on their record?
And the company you work for allows you to just call sick without any ramifications to you at all? You can just call sick whenever you want? Hey you're sick it shouldn't count against you? The fact of the matter under Disney's current contract you can call sick once a month for 11 consecutive months, and as long as you skip that 12-month, you're going to be just fine without any actual reprimand coming to you. That seems more than generous.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Incorrect. If you are not hourly, there is most definitely a merit raise. If your hourly there's a rate you get for starting, which is the $15 being discussed here. And then there's the rate you get for being a one-year cast member, a two-year cast member, a three-year cast member, a four-year cast member, and it keeps going until you hit a top out rate. Which is well into the double digits of years served. In either case, hourly or not hourly, There is almost most always a annual pay raise. In the case of the hourly, that is a specified dollar amount as dictated in the terms of the contract, and the case of the non hourly it is a percentage based on performance.
My post is correct. My post and this entire thread are referencing hourly cast members covered by the STCU. Those cast members do not receive merit raises. They receive raises based on service time consistent with other cast members at those same milestones covered by the STCU. They do not receive raises based on performance.
 

rricks26

Member
If a part time cast member consistently works 50 hour weeks they will quickly get capped.
If I’m not mistaken, they got rid of being capped for part timers a few years ago. They will just hire more of them to make sure the hours can be spread more around. I was just using that as an example for classification of pt and ft purposes. Your hours worked don't factor into your pt and ft status.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
And the company you work for allows you to just call sick without any ramifications to you at all? You can just call sick whenever you want? Hey you're sick it shouldn't count against you? The fact of the matter under Disney's current contract you can call sick once a month for 11 consecutive months, and as long as you skip that 12-month, you're going to be just fine without any actual reprimand coming to you. That seems more than generous.

Is this directed at me, or did you quote me on accident?

I asked a question because the poster I quoted made a statement that looked like it may not be true.
 

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