Disney is big legal & public trouble...

[coastermaster83]

I just think this time, they are pushing things too far in the wrong direction where you are going to get negative press from it. I think they need to create some rules and such but also need to train there security and those coming in how to deal with things better, its called sensitivity training or how to handle certain situations and every company I've worked for makes you do some form of it. Now I still say that the US as a whole needs to start cracking down on the parents of the people that are causing the problem and hey I also thought about something else the other day while reading a story about how much LA paid for paris hiltons jail time. I think if we made people pay for living in jail and the things they get like the cable and such while in there it might just make them thing twice about going into the jail. anyways ya thats my soap box for the day.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Umm...technically...if they bought movie tickets...aren't they considered patrons?

 

[WhyteAL]

Exactly what I'm saying. That's fine in my book. If they comply...then leave them alone. If they don't...then do whatever you need to do.

But, again, if there is a large group of 40+ year olds in Pleasure Island hanging out...they won't be approached unless they do something wrong.

If they're not doing anything wrong...they'll comply to what the security guards say...much like teens. If you're going to do it to the teens, do it to everybody.

You can't have security that's profiling...it's just trouble all around. Whether it be racial profiling, profiling by age, profiling by $ex, or financial status.

(By financial status I mean...if Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, the Olsen Twins, Paris Hilton, and Nicole Ritchie were all loitering in PI...I highly doubt security would ask them to move along).

I completely agree with you, especially if we take a look at certain statistics. For instance most people who are pediphiles, rapists, and such. Are usually above the age of teenagers, shouldn't thoses individuals be targeted as well? I mean if you see a 40 year old male just walking about by himself looking about, could be trouble!

Most of you may not agree but kids between the ages of 13-18 need to do and see things. They need to experince and they need to socialize. And places like malls, DTD, movie theaters are environments that they gravitate too.

A good bulk of profits made by these establishments are made by this target crowd, which marketing for these venues target indirectly. The reason why there is most likely going to build the western beltway is because of over crowding in DTD.

Orlando has had a huge residential boom, what did we expect it to be just a bunch of 40 year olds moving without kids to the entertainment capital of the world??? Disney is free to handle this situation as they see fit, even though I don't agree with kicking kids out, there should be more patrolling in the area, better security, etc. I never feel uncomfortable around people because of certain prejudices (ie ______, color, creed, national heritage, age, or disability). I do understand that some people might, and its understandable because of the way they were brought up.

Another reason why you also see more kids is becasue it's summer there is no school to go to. These kids have nothing to do.

Another thing I can't get over is how many people say they always see gangs in DTD...can somebody please explain this to me...where????? I have not seen gangs anywhere up there...I'm tring to understand if what is refernced as a gang is kids dressed in baggy cloths, fake dimond chains (lol idk why they do this it's ridicoulous lol) and ipods? Is that what a gang member is?

 

[bob0012]

Am I the only one though that thinks being banned for life is a bit much? I mean - how are you going to enforce that? If I was banned from Disney property for life, and I was a teenager, how are you going to follow that through if I book a trip say 20 years from now? Are they creating a database or something?

They are banned for life because the police tresspass them, meaning it goes on file that they are not welcome on disney property (and they sign a form that says they know and agree). Its not all that easy to enforce for just people visiting, however if 10 years down the line they end up getting in trouble on disney property again not only are they in trouble for whatever, but they are also in legal trouble because they were tresspassing.

What is the definition of loitering?

If they were just hanging around and not doing anything...then fine, ask them to move along or leave.

For one, this group admited they were just hanging around, not doing anything. They also tried to gain access into a 21 and over club. Bottem line here is there are a lot of teens of all colors hanging around at DTD which leads me to belive the 50 people they kicked out over the last month did somthing to bring attention to themselves.

Would they ask the typical family (Mom, Dad, 2 1/2 kids) to move along or leave? No. There is definitely some profiling going on. Rules are rules...No loitering means no loitering. If it's a group of punk kids loitering...treat them the same as if they were an elderly group that was loitering. No action is needed unless they don't comply.

First off comparing the typical family to the group of punk kids isn't a fair comparision. The family is there to spend money, the kids tend to not be. Also of all the groups of kids there, only 50 got thrown out in the crackdown over the past month, so as I said, I think they did somthing more.

Just a couple of things...

5 teens were approached and told to move along. One teen said "yes sir" and everything was fine for him. 4 others apparently said "You can't tell me what to do!" or something to that effect and were removed from the property and banned for life. IMHO they got what they deserved.

EXACTLY!

If I tell my child to sit and wait for me at said food court and some Rent-A-Cop comes up and tells them to move along you can bet im going to get ed, you can also bet that just wait for that one day that some cop comes up to a kid and says that and the kid doesn't move and the cop grabs them and the kid has some medical problem and dies and you see how fast people will jump ship on the whole system.

In that situation that "rent a cop" has every right to ask your kid to move along, I see no reason to be "ed". People jump down the throats of employees for enforcing rules. Any cop who is going to "grab" a kid, obviously should not be a cop, however if any person who is told to move along doesn't, then proper action should be taken.

It's entirely possible that he didn't give a false name to police. His parents very well could be divorced and he gave the last name of another parent or something.

Your saying he may not have known his last name? Yea....

To be legally loitering, don't you have to not have X amount of dollars in your pocket but still hanging out? It's some relatively small sum like $20.

So, they can't just say they were loitering, they had to fit the definiton of the FL laws.

They were tresspassed from private property, where due to their actions they were designated as not welcome.




There are some very interesting things in this story:

1. They were given the option to leave and did not. All this means
is they were dumb enough to not leave when given the choice of either
you leave or we'll throw you out.

2. The article states that "at least one made 'kind of smart remarks'
to WDW security." but what it doesn't connect is where it points out
it wasn't only WDW secuity but also Orange County deputy sheriffs.
And if you screw around with the police like that, then yea, it makes
things harder for you.

3. The article trys to create some kind of racial tension about how
security and the deputys were only hunting down black kids and it's
all racist. What's interesting is that as a white teen and a
Hispanic teen were brought in they "started slapping 'high-5' and
joking" so really, who's the racist group here?

 

[disney_nutter]

I'm heading to orlando tomorrow with my brother for a fortnights holiday we are staying off site but we always go to DTD most nights to past the time and sometimes we will sit maybe for up most to an hour just talking and watching the world go by, im 23 and hes 18 does this mean that if we are sitting on a bench just relaxing that we will be told move.

 

[Nebrfan]

I agree that rules are rules and security needs to be enforced. I do sympathize with the kids somewhat. When we were young, didn't we all cruise up and down the strip? Kids can't afford that with gas at $3 (unless Mom and Dad are footing the bill). We used to hang out with our girlfriends or a friend or two. Now kids go to movies in groups. Times have changed and people need to recognize this. I'm white but feel sorry for any group that is racially profiled. I know it goes on in places, even if it's age or class profiling. I personally think it's probably done more by $$$ status than anything else. If a group of teens is very well dressed they will get the benefit of the doubt over those dressed poorly. I would probably be leery of a bunch of teens hanging out as well, but where do they go if every place wants to kick them out? Times have changed. Unfortunately so has parenting. There is no easy answer.

 

[tigsmom]

Just a snippet from the story:



If you aren't doing anything wrong, why bother giving a false name to the police? Which is illegal, in case someone doesn't know. Buh bye lawsuit.

All this is is that the 'civil rights lawyer' father wants to make some money.

Why is it a false name? Because father and son have different last names?
Thats a big step to take there, but I'm not surprised at all.

 

[tigsmom]

A mall near our home town had to ban kids that were not accompanied by an adult during the day. It seems parents have found this to be a cheap form of child care.

What I find disturbing is the parents who automatically say not my angel. The teen that left had no problems! I live near a college town and I have seen some of the kids become defiant when asked to behave. And lets face it put a group of teens (especially ones that are a little full of themselves) and it can be worse. As a parent I guess my question to my child would have been why did you not leave when they asked you to?

The malls here have no un-escorted teens after 4 pm Friday, Saturday & Sundays. There has been problems with packs of teens hanging out at the mall for hours causing problems both inside and out. They will arrest them and escort them of premises, again PRIVATE property.

 

[hls1023]

GO GATORS!!!!:sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:

 

[WDWFREAK53]

They are banned for life because the police tresspass them, meaning it goes on file that they are not welcome on disney property (and they sign a form that says they know and agree). Its not all that easy to enforce for just people visiting, however if 10 years down the line they end up getting in trouble on disney property again not only are they in trouble for whatever, but they are also in legal trouble because they were tresspassing.



For one, this group admited they were just hanging around, not doing anything. They also tried to gain access into a 21 and over club. Bottem line here is there are a lot of teens of all colors hanging around at DTD which leads me to belive the 50 people they kicked out over the last month did somthing to bring attention to themselves.

Agreed, if they did something wrong...(which trying to gain access to a 21+ club while being underage is)...they should be disciplined.

First off comparing the typical family to the group of punk kids isn't a fair comparision. The family is there to spend money, the kids tend to not be. Also of all the groups of kids there, only 50 got thrown out in the crackdown over the past month, so as I said, I think they did somthing more.

I am not talking about past events...I'm talking about "in general." Not all kids are "punk kids" and not all families are there to spend money. Some families...and kids...just go there to hang out and people-watch or window-shop. I would go as far as say that more kids buy movie tickets earlier in the day to guarantee that they don't sell out...and then hang out there to pass the time. If you purchase a movie ticket for a 9:00 show at noon...that's a lot of time to kill.

In that situation that "rent a cop" has every right to ask your kid to move along, I see no reason to be "ed". People jump down the throats of employees for enforcing rules. Any cop who is going to "grab" a kid, obviously should not be a cop, however if any person who is told to move along doesn't, then proper action should be taken.

By the story, I got the impression that the kid left the building and went across the street. If this was not on the property of the building...the security guard is out of his jurisdiction and had no rights in the matter.

 

[tigsmom]

Why would someone who works for Disney drop kids off at DTD to "hang out" for over 2 hours when they know (or should know) that Disney is craking down on teens who go to DTD just to hang out?

And just a question... Does Orlando not have a city wide cerfew for teens? It said in the story that one of the kids called their parents at midnight to tell them they were having problems with the security gaurds. I know that in my city if a kid 17 or younger is out past midnight they are braking the law.

We have no curfew here unless its Halloween so kids can (and do) stay out at all hours. My oldest (just 19) goes out with her friends (of varying ages) and they meet at the diner or go to the movies. If she causes a problem she would have more to worry about than the police.

I don't have a problem with teens hanging out with their friends, its loitering and causing problems I have a problem with. Were the kids in question causing trouble? I don't know, but the police and security are hired to take care of that, so let them do their jobs. If they overstep their bounds then let it be sorted out in court. :shrug:

 

[mdisney]

They might lose the chance to play for FSU, and that is why they are wanting to sue Disney.

 

[Champion]

It's entirely possible that he didn't give a false name to police. His parents very well could be divorced and he gave the last name of another parent or something.

All I am saying is that he may not have been consciously lying to the police.

He gave his name as Nick Cannon. Obviously he was lying.

Why is it a false name? Because father and son have different last names?
Thats a big step to take there, but I'm not surprised at all.

Then explain to me why his REAL name was given in the article? It says right in the article 'his son, Nickolas Moody'. Not 'Nickolas Cannon'. Again, he was using Nick Cannon as his name because its the first thing that came to his mind that wasn't his name.

 

[Epcotian]

Banned for life. Just an empty threat. When I buy my park tickets, I buy them from a discount vendor like Undercover Tourist. Disney has no info on who I am other than my fingerprint upon entering, and I'm not even required to provide that. Perhaps I'm wrong and this info is transferred from the vendor to Disney. So then, the ticket purchase is in the same scenario as the following: When I book my room, I give my name, address and phone number. These kids' addresses and phone numbers will all change before they decide to return as resort visitors. It's conceivable that a unique name triggers the database ban, but I doubt it's likely. A spouse could easily book the ressie in her name and provide a false one for the "banned" spouse. Nobody ever checked to see if my spouse's name was the one I provided. I just think this threat is impossible to enforce given the info Disney currently collects from its visitors.

 

[fyn]

Setting a precedent

I think Disney is trying to make a strong statement to the public as to its stance on security in DTD, especially following the bad PR after the 'supposed abduction' a few weeks ago. Given that it's their property, and Disney should do everything in its power to make the paying guests' experiences as great as possible, I think this sort of action because its just meant to make guests feel safer.

The "ban for life" is, IMHO, also a PR tactic, and isn't something anyone needs to worry about. Unless, of course, Disney fingerprinted them (which I think is illegal) and not the Orange County deputies.


-Fyn

 

[fyn]

They might lose the chance to play for FSU, and that is why they are wanting to sue Disney.

I highly doubt a loitering charge is going to make them ineligible to play for the crimi-noles...I mean Seminoles. :lol:

 

[mdisney]

I highly doubt a loitering charge is going to make them ineligible to play for the crimi-noles...I mean Seminoles. :lol:

You never know, and also not listening to authority figures.

 

[Epcotian]

I think Disney is trying to make a strong statement to the public as to its stance on security in DTD, especially following the bad PR after the 'supposed abduction' a few weeks ago. Given that it's their property, and Disney should do everything in its power to make the paying guests' experiences as great as possible, I think this sort of action because its just meant to make guests feel safer.

The "ban for life" is, IMHO, also a PR tactic, and isn't something anyone needs to worry about. Unless, of course, Disney fingerprinted them (which I think is illegal) and not the Orange County deputies.


-Fyn

Even if Disney did fingerprint them, nobody is required to provide their fingerprint to enter any Disney property as a visitor. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Disney has an alternate method for entering the parks for anyone who is not comfortable with the finger check system.

 

[Champion]

You never know, and also not listening to authority figures.

It won't. They've had much bigger problems than loitering and the players have stayed on the team.

 

[Champion]

Banned for life. Just an empty threat. When I buy my park tickets, I buy them from a discount vendor like Undercover Tourist. Disney has no info on who I am other than my fingerprint upon entering, and I'm not even required to provide that. Perhaps I'm wrong and this info is transferred from the vendor to Disney. So then, the ticket purchase is in the same scenario as the following: When I book my room, I give my name, address and phone number. These kids' addresses and phone numbers will all change before they decide to return as resort visitors. It's conceivable that a unique name triggers the database ban, but I doubt it's likely. A spouse could easily book the ressie in her name and provide a false one for the "banned" spouse. Nobody ever checked to see if my spouse's name was the one I provided. I just think this threat is impossible to enforce given the info Disney currently collects from its visitors.

Its not about not letting people come back. Its for if you DO come back and do something else, they can have you arrested for violating it.