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Disney is big legal & public trouble...
- Thread starter Disney4648
- Start date
mikeymouse
Well-Known Member
in most cases, if they are causing a problem, they will refuse to leave after security asks them to. then it gets hairy. if they would just leave when they're asked to, it wouldn't get that way. maybe the population of blacks and hispanics are high in Orlando? or maybe they are being profiled. hard to tell.
JML42691
Active Member
I agree with you on this, but the apparent reason is that they refused to leave when asked to by authourities, as the only one not banned left when asked.
brusoe
Member
This wont go anywhere it doesnt matter if they have .01 or 1,000 dollars in there pocket on private property you can be asked to leave for anything. People tend to forget this and think they have some right to be there. I personaly have grown tired of this additude being that I use to be a bouncer. I mean lets face it a bunch of 18-19 yearold young men full of testosterone, were just walking around on there best behavior and wernt doing anything at all to bring attention to themselves and im sure when they were asked to leave they said ok we will leave, and walked off without incident.:hammer:
disney_nutter
Active Member
There's nothing wrong with ohio state true there isn't much right with either
tigger1968
Well-Known Member
It seems that a lot of people are taking exception to the "lifetime ban" that WDW is handing out to offenders. While I agree that the term is basically PR to impress upon the public the seriousness of WDW to handle this, maybe I can put some perspective on this from a personal angle.
It sounds to me like WDW security is having Orange County deputies issue basic tresspass warnings. It's a great way to get someone into the system for future reference. All that happens is that the person is told not to return, ever, or face arrest for Criminal Tresspass. The person in question would have to return and do something to draw the attention of security to be actually arrested, as that would be the point where police would determine the prior warning had been issued. I have used this technique in a prior job and my current one.
I worked Loss Prevention at a large retailer in a mall. Both Mall Security as well as my store used Trespass Notices all the time. We would detain someone (typically for shoplifiting), then have Police come in and arrest them if I was charging them for a crime,do the paperwork and issue the notice as a final insult to them. In my current work, I have used Tresspass notices to help remove homeless poeple who bother shoppers at my location, or who are drunk or otherwise causing a disturbance. I only use it if they are really being a nuisance, about twice a year or so.
At any rate, for those who have posted saying that Disney won't know who you are, or that you can just give false info, or that they can't make it permanent, its not WDW Security you need to be wary of, its the Orange County Sheriff's Dept. And giving false info to police is a crime in and of itself. Tresspass notices are typically permanent, and not set by the proerty owner ( i.e. Disney).
The main thing that I get out of this debate is to remember that its private property, and WDW can remove anyone they want....with no need to give a reason. The notices that these kids got are permanent, but they would have to do something to attract attention on a future visit in order to be charged with Trespassing. I should of course point out that I don't know the actual law in Florida, I am only sharing opinions based on personal experience in another state.
Finally, on a personal note, the last several times we have been to DTD, we commented on how bad the teenage crowd had gotten, and how we wished Disney would do something about it. I for one am glad they did.
It sounds to me like WDW security is having Orange County deputies issue basic tresspass warnings. It's a great way to get someone into the system for future reference. All that happens is that the person is told not to return, ever, or face arrest for Criminal Tresspass. The person in question would have to return and do something to draw the attention of security to be actually arrested, as that would be the point where police would determine the prior warning had been issued. I have used this technique in a prior job and my current one.
I worked Loss Prevention at a large retailer in a mall. Both Mall Security as well as my store used Trespass Notices all the time. We would detain someone (typically for shoplifiting), then have Police come in and arrest them if I was charging them for a crime,do the paperwork and issue the notice as a final insult to them. In my current work, I have used Tresspass notices to help remove homeless poeple who bother shoppers at my location, or who are drunk or otherwise causing a disturbance. I only use it if they are really being a nuisance, about twice a year or so.
At any rate, for those who have posted saying that Disney won't know who you are, or that you can just give false info, or that they can't make it permanent, its not WDW Security you need to be wary of, its the Orange County Sheriff's Dept. And giving false info to police is a crime in and of itself. Tresspass notices are typically permanent, and not set by the proerty owner ( i.e. Disney).
The main thing that I get out of this debate is to remember that its private property, and WDW can remove anyone they want....with no need to give a reason. The notices that these kids got are permanent, but they would have to do something to attract attention on a future visit in order to be charged with Trespassing. I should of course point out that I don't know the actual law in Florida, I am only sharing opinions based on personal experience in another state.
Finally, on a personal note, the last several times we have been to DTD, we commented on how bad the teenage crowd had gotten, and how we wished Disney would do something about it. I for one am glad they did.
LivingtheDream
Member
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
A lot of people stand around Downtown Disney aimlessly.
Disney security guards wouldn't ask you to leave unless you were causing some sort of commotion.
They had to have been up to something.
Disney security guards wouldn't ask you to leave unless you were causing some sort of commotion.
They had to have been up to something.
Disneyfanman
Well-Known Member
Disney is dealing with the same issues that many shopping and entertainment complexes deal with, but it's magnified because it's a very public resort and is supposed to be safe. They really have to balance the needs of the guest with the need for security. I am really happy that they are addressing this.
tigsmom
Well-Known Member
beachclubbasics
New Member
It just seems to be the sad state of affairs on our country. I am a teacher and the atttitudes of kids, and their parents, never fails to amaze me. Some just feel that the world owes them whatever they want and that they can do whatever they please. It's even more shocking to hear how some of these people speak to our principal,superintendent, and even our school-based police officer (I've seen kids and parents take swings at him). The entitlement attitude is one thing that is really hurting the American culture.
And, if these guys were like the average boys I run into at work and out in my area, I'll bet they would have been in a lot less trouble if they just kept their mouths closed. Kids these days just don't seem to know when to stop...they like to just keep talking and pick pick picking away at the authority figures when they feel thatthese figures are wronging them.
Disney, as a privately owned property, has a right to make policies and to not serve those who break those policies as long as the policies don't infringe on civil rights (which are a bit different for private property than public) or discriminate based on gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Eventually Disney will have a tool that will allow them to effectively ban people from their properties permanently. Once retinal scanning and facial recognition devices become more advnaced and readily available, it will be much easier to scan faces and retinas as people enter a property and compare them to a database...similarly (but with even more accuracy) to the finger indentification system that the gates use now.
And, if these guys were like the average boys I run into at work and out in my area, I'll bet they would have been in a lot less trouble if they just kept their mouths closed. Kids these days just don't seem to know when to stop...they like to just keep talking and pick pick picking away at the authority figures when they feel thatthese figures are wronging them.
Disney, as a privately owned property, has a right to make policies and to not serve those who break those policies as long as the policies don't infringe on civil rights (which are a bit different for private property than public) or discriminate based on gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Eventually Disney will have a tool that will allow them to effectively ban people from their properties permanently. Once retinal scanning and facial recognition devices become more advnaced and readily available, it will be much easier to scan faces and retinas as people enter a property and compare them to a database...similarly (but with even more accuracy) to the finger indentification system that the gates use now.
beachclubbasics
New Member
I read this..why should Disney apologize? Theu have a right to run their business the way they see fit as long as it meets criminal and federal anti-discrimination laws.
People using the racism card always bothers me. I am Native American and, in a situation like this I would not feel discriminated against due to my race. In fact, I have been blatantly discriminated against by people who treated me totally differently before they knew I was NA (I'm light skinned and actually look more Asian). Ya know what? I just look at these people as small minded individuals who lack something in their lives that they have to blame on minorities and I move on.
That being said , there are some things (such as a certain way of wearing pants, or speaking and cursing VERY loudly) that some groups feel are a part of their "culture", that are just not accepted in polite society and do not need to be tolerated in a private property. To call kids out on these behaviors is not profiling or infringing upon their civil rights, but it is protecting the civil rights of others who don't need to hear the phrases "h_", "b___h", "M____F____".every 5 seconds. Nor do I need to see not only the color of, but also the brand, of your drawers....and neither do young kids. If this group was also standing in a large group and blocking crowd egress (as teenagers seem to like to do these days), it then also becomes a fire hazard and Disney could be fined by the fire inspector.
BTW, when I speak of this "culture" I am not pointng to one group...many teen groups (black, white, NA, asian, etc) seem to like to emulate this behavior these days. I don't get it, but I've rasied my own kids more with an Eastern philosophy to be quiet, polite, and helpful to those around them. I think that's one reason why many people (including a lot of Asian people we know) assume that we're actually Asian and not NA.
the face recognition is very easy to get around. Since people can use a distugise to get around it.
RobGraves
New Member
Nope.
They use this technology extensively in Vegas, it measures the distance between your eyes and a few other points that are un alterable.
I dare you to get kicked out of a vegas casino, and attempt to go in later in a disguise.
There are plenty of people kicked out of a casino and go back and play, and nothing is done to them
TOCPE82
Well-Known Member
If they were giving security trouble by trying to enter 21+ pleasure island, they deserved to be asked to leave. I don't know about a lifetime ban, but I don't see that what Disney did was wrong. Every story about something like this focuses on what allegedly happened while ignoring what probably did happen. As a former teen, I know I probably would have been cursing and been rowdy and wanted to get into pleasure island too. However, as a non delinquant when they asked me to stop, I would have. End of issue.
As has been mentioned by many, the ban is more PR than anything....as long as the banned person behaves him/herself in the future. I'm pretty sure that if these young men show up in 10 years with children in tow, they will NOT be stopped at the gate or escorted off the property, as long as they behave.
And there is another story floating around here that gives the number of people escorted off property/banned in the last YEAR, and the majority are NOT African or Hispanic.
I susoect that the increase in numbers may have to do with a combination of things, including the number of teenagers gathered together. My limited experience (having been "invited" to leave a few private malls, etc in my wilder teen/young adult years) has been that 4 people of the same age, dressed similarly, seems to be the magic number. 4 or less, no problem. 5 or more, and you MIGHT be a gang (or demonstrators, in my case
), and would be watched closely.
I was just as indignant as most of you younger folks are, but now that I'm a mom who just wants to enjoy myself in peace, I can understand the attitude of those who "invited" us to move along.
I would assume that a group of skinheads would get the same treatment. I would hope that a group of religious fanatics preaching or handing out tracts would also be asked to leave.
I also wonder if this wasn't planned in response to LAST week's incident and news story? Things that make you go hmmmm. Then again, I do still have that civil disobedience streak left somewhere, so maybe I'm just remembering what MY group of friends would have done. :lookaroun
And there is another story floating around here that gives the number of people escorted off property/banned in the last YEAR, and the majority are NOT African or Hispanic.
I susoect that the increase in numbers may have to do with a combination of things, including the number of teenagers gathered together. My limited experience (having been "invited" to leave a few private malls, etc in my wilder teen/young adult years) has been that 4 people of the same age, dressed similarly, seems to be the magic number. 4 or less, no problem. 5 or more, and you MIGHT be a gang (or demonstrators, in my case
), and would be watched closely.I was just as indignant as most of you younger folks are, but now that I'm a mom who just wants to enjoy myself in peace, I can understand the attitude of those who "invited" us to move along.
I would assume that a group of skinheads would get the same treatment. I would hope that a group of religious fanatics preaching or handing out tracts would also be asked to leave.
I also wonder if this wasn't planned in response to LAST week's incident and news story? Things that make you go hmmmm. Then again, I do still have that civil disobedience streak left somewhere, so maybe I'm just remembering what MY group of friends would have done. :lookaroun
they were asked to move along and they didn't. They were seen standing/sitting in the same area as they were asked to move from they asked again they didn't move. They were asked to leave they wouldn't leave.
So yeah if they think they are better than the rules already and they are only "prospects" then they need a bit of a kick in the butt. Then start crying "racial motivation" was behind it all they sound like a bunch of cry baby "i get what ever I want" jocks.
So yeah if they think they are better than the rules already and they are only "prospects" then they need a bit of a kick in the butt. Then start crying "racial motivation" was behind it all they sound like a bunch of cry baby "i get what ever I want" jocks.
RobGraves
New Member
all depends on what you did to get kicked out... but rest assured, if your pic goes in the system, and you show up on the security cameras...chances are your next stop is Clark County.
PigletIsMyCat
Well-Known Member
TOTALLY off topic, but when I clicked the link to the Sentinel update, it said that AMC at DTD had partnered with Myspace to show A SNEAK PREVIEW OF THE NEW HARRY POTTER MOVIE AT DTD TONIGHT!!!! ARRRRGH!!! They were giving out wristbands for a showing at 7pm tonight!!! WHY WASN'T I INFORMED!?!?!?!?!?
