Disney doesn't allow guns at work!

[Pumbas Nakasak]

The constitution does not use the word gun it says arms. That could be interpreted as any weapon.

Isnt that offensive to amputees?

 

[HMF]

Isnt that offensive to amputees?

What does that mean?

 

[MarKing]

It is a hard argument to counter the illogical fear of a tool.

Well done.

Its the illogical tool carrying the tool that im worried about.

It's the self-righteous limiter of rights that I'm worried about.

Answer these questions honestly:

Who is responsible for your safety and security?

The police, the government? Can they be where you are each moment of each day?

Does crime not exist where you live? Keeping in mind, that relative to this thread, Disney is keeping employees from providing for their self-defense to and from work.

When seconds count, law enforcement is minutes away.

Call 911 and hope the dispatcher believes you and doesn't fall asleep.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

It's the self-righteous limiter of rights that I'm worried about.

Answer these questions honestly:

Who is responsible for your safety and security?

The police, the government? Can they be where you are each moment of each day?

Does crime not exist where you live? Keeping in mind, that relative to this thread, Disney is keeping employees from providing for their self-defense to and from work.

When seconds count, law enforcement is minutes away.

Call 911 and hope the dispatcher believes you and doesn't fall asleep.

Thats why the US is the safest country in the world no doubt.

 

[MarKing]

Who the hell would want to carry a gun on them unless they were a criminal. Decent people don't need to carry guns! They are for killing people. Good on Disney's lawyers for once in getting this stopped.

So, decency is determined by whether someone chooses to not exercise a civil liberty by accepting personal responsibility for self-defense now?

No, decent people take personal responsiblity for their actions, attitudes, speach, and especially self-defense.

Decent people don't depend on the government for everything.

Decent people don't tell other people how to live their lives.

Decent people understand that there are different views and are mature enough to accept it.

Decent people sacrifice for their families, even if it means laying down their own life or the taking of a criminals life.

Decent people respect and uphold the Consititution of the United States, whether they agree or disagree with the freedoms it represents.

Guns are for a lot of things: Sport, hunting, and yes self-defense. Killing is only necessary if I am in fear for my life , or the life of another.

Rather than focus on the tool used in crime, why not focus on the criminal. Why not stiffer penalties, longer sentences? I'll tell you why. Criminals don't care. Never have never will. So to make you feel better, you would rather punish the law abiding citizen.

More people die each year because of alchohol, pools, cars/truck/motorcycles, boats, and tabacco. Where is the outcry to ban them?

 

[MarKing]

Thats why the US is the safest country in the world no doubt.

You didn't answer my questions.

It's the free-est. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, countries who have banned firearms have extrememly high violent crime rates.

Regardless of what tool/weapon you outlaw. Only the law abiding citizen will comply. Criminals never will, and they will be the only one's with them.

In the UK, firearms and knives are illegal. Violent crime is through the roof. They are also punished for defending themselves.

Regardless of your view of firearms, we live in a country that was founded on the ideal of being responsible for your own safety and well being. If you would rather choose to give up or defer that right, then you will suffer the consequences.

Call 911 next time you have an emergency and see how long it takes. Law Enforcement RESPONDS after the fact. I have taken it upon myself to DEFEND during the fact.

 

[Chezman1399]

We talk about this like it is just Disney that will not allow personal guns to be carried in cars. Yet, personal firearms are also prohibted from being in the cars of those who work on a military base of any kind every day. How can you prohibit one and not the other. You can't also, if you stop Disney from saying no guns, it sets a dangerous precedent on what the government can control about a business.

Yes the right to arms is very important. It is inacted as a way to protect us from tyrranical rule and to defend ourselves. However, if the governement goes into a private company of a non regulated industry and tells them what they can let and not let employees bring to work.

Could they go to a place like Gino's Steaks in Philadelphia and tell them to remove the order in English signs just because we do not have an official language? The precedent set there was that as long as a private business is not descriminating it dictates it's own rules.

As I said before, I'm not a gun owner and have no plans to own a gun, but I understand the purpose of the 2nd amendment. However employees/cast members sign a sheet agreeing to certain policies no matter where someone works. When I was at Lowe's they made it a fireable offense to smoke anywhere on the property of the building including in your car. Where I work currently, it is a governement facility that does not allow personal weapons of any kind, which is why I feel Florida is enacting a law when there are government facilities in FL that would be breaking it. All businesses have their own policies. Disney has a security force. Disney takes on that liability as the employer. Finally, many gun bans from recent years revolve around 911, and lest we forget Disney was a possible target.

So the issue I think here should not be about gun rights, the constitution sets those up, it should be about business's rights and the dangers infringing on the rights of a private company could do. However, you also have to look at the company infringing upon the rights of the US Citizens. And once again, not everyone who visits Disney World is a legal citizen of the United States either. So who can bring a weapon, who can't because they can't bring one over on a plane into the country, and who doesn't want a weapon there. It's just a very complicated situation and really should not be all about whether guns make things safer or not.

 

[Giraffe Lounge]

You didn't answer my questions.

It's the free-est. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, countries who have banned firearms have extrememly high violent crime rates.

Correlation is not causation.

In the UK, firearms and knives are illegal. Violent crime is through the roof. They are also punished for defending themselves.

Not trying to be a jerk, but just curious, can you cite your source on this?

 

[figmentmom]

Well, from a military perspective, the training strictly covers aiming and mechanics. But, the military in general provides situational training. I have done, "Shoot/Don't Shoot" scenarios, but that is more advanced training.

That said, I have access to several weapons that I know how to use when needed.

But they don't leave the house.

Well said.

Disney is quite right - guns have no place at work.

 

[MarKing]

Correlation is not causation.

One caused the other.

Not trying to be a jerk, but just curious, can you cite your source on this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960431.stm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2328368.ece"

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/watson/watson12.html

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2205

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2640817.stm

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/2352855.stm

 

[magicMLV]

That's a very interesting thread. I live in a country where no one would ever think about purchasing a gun, getting training, getting a permit. What bothers everyone here is what we call the small incidents (stealing a wallet or a car). Besides these small incidents, we can call our place safe. Anyway, you would not be allowed to shoot at someone stealing your car. Such self defense is only allowed if you are threatened by a gun yourself.

After reading the 10 pages and understanding both sides, I came to the conclusion that:

- the US is surch a large country that law enforcement cannot reasonably protect your families and you need to protect yourselves (in my country, it is police duty to protect citizens)

- the US has a high crime, and more violent crimes requiring, solutions brought by individuals and not law enforcement.

Here is my question : as a tourist from Europe spending most of my time in the World but still visiting other places like Downtown Orlando or driving during the night on highways, how should I protect myself? Is it safe for me to travel to the US?

 

[MickeyspalJim]

I have found out since joining this site, that in reading alot of these posts, that it is getting very depressing to read stories about Disney, where I go quite often to get away with the many problems of life. I started coming here because of the great current events noted on the front page and in some of the posts, but it seems each day, more and more posts are just to bring up more and more negative, explosive ideas seem to be coming the norm on this site.
Instead of finding out something that may be useful for My next trip, all I seem to read lately is very forceful argueing over things like Drinking, Guns, and other non Disney things to help others out with there trip planning. May have to give this site up soon. It was my favorite to check each day. Such a shame.

 

[Giraffe Lounge]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/watson/watson12.html

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2205

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2640817.stm

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/

Interesting,

my quick search returned this:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/crvs.htm

Look at the graphs, they clearly show that violent crime was exploding in the UK in the mid 90's BEFORE the gun ban in 1997.

Unless you can explain to me how a ban in 1997 made crime skyrocket in 1992?

Clearly the ban on handguns was a REACTION to the rising crime, not the cause of it.

So again, correlation is not causation.

Where A and B exist together,
A can cause B
B can cause A
or an unknown factor C can cause both B and A

Another article, which takes a look at the complex interplay of factors which may be responsible for the crime rate in England:

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9641

 

[MarKing]

I will concede that one did not cause the other.

I also notice from the graphs that the ban did nothing to reduce the assault or robbery rate either.

 

[figmentmom]

I have found out since joining this site, that in reading alot of these posts, that it is getting very depressing to read stories about Disney, where I go quite often to get away with the many problems of life. I started coming here because of the great current events noted on the front page and in some of the posts, but it seems each day, more and more posts are just to bring up more and more negative, explosive ideas seem to be coming the norm on this site.
Instead of finding out something that may be useful for My next trip, all I seem to read lately is very forceful argueing over things like Drinking, Guns, and other non Disney things to help others out with there trip planning. May have to give this site up soon. It was my favorite to check each day. Such a shame.

Don't give up on us! Most threads here are useful and informative, and the overwhelming majority of people here are Disney enthusiasts like you. Just skip the threads with titles that suggest subjects you'd rather avoid.

 

[Giraffe Lounge]

I will concede that one did not cause the other.

I also notice from the graphs that the ban did nothing to reduce the assault or robbery rate either.

I agree, the ban seems like a foolish, knee-jerk reaction.

In a world of sound bites, no one wants solutions that look at the core of the problem.

Personally, I don't carry a gun, doubt I ever will, but I think there is far too much concern about letting people have them in their car.

Personal conspiracy theory (which I can't defend, but just seems like a possibility)-- I think that the last minute change by the bill was probably very much on purpose. It allowed Disney to get what they want and politicians to feign outrage.

 

[RHeath2]

Here is my question : as a tourist from Europe spending most of my time in the World but still visiting other places like Downtown Orlando or driving during the night on highways, how should I protect myself? Is it safe for me to travel to the US?

Yes, it is safe for you to travel to the U.S. and you don't need to be fearful about any of this. Most of this is just banter, banter that's been going on between both sides for a very long time. Truth be told, I was more fearful for my own personal safety at night visiting a city like Rome more so than I've been in Chicago, or even Orlando.

As far as the whole ruling and what not, I think it's pretty shady the way that Disney is operating by use of this loophole, but at the same time it's the fault of the lawmakers for having created one. I'm assuming this law will become amended or revoted on in in the future so that Disney is either plainly qualified as exempt or they will be forced to follow the rulings.

 

[Paragon]

Hello, Mighty Paragon here from RADP. For those who don't know me, I am a 19-year Cast Member, currently in Epcot.

I am also the holder of a license to carry a concealed weapon (everyone, run for it!) :lookaroun

This has been a very interesting thread.

Couple of things: if you want to defend yourself with a baseball bat, feel free. A rolled up magazine? Go ahead. Stiletto heels? Be my guest. The point is, you will use some tool or other to do it. So will I. I choose a Sig Sauer. It's my choice. You don't have to agree with it or like it. I have a right of self-defense, just like anyone else. I choose my tool, you choose yours.

I don't live in Hunter's Creek or Four Corners. Where on earth did someone ever get the stupid idea that all 60K Cast Members live in places like that? One of my co-workers lives in Pine Hills. I know of another lady who lives in Paramore (google it). She was raped after coming home from work at Disney. I myself live in a little block house with no central air or heat, in a no-too-bad area of Winter Garden. Another co-worker lives in Ocala and drives nearly two hours to get to work. We do live in crime-ridden areas, some of us.

Next, can everyone PLEASE get it through their heads that NO Cast Member is asking to bring a gun into the park? That is NOT the issue here. We want only to have it for our lives OUTSIDE of Disney. (I know it's hard for anyone to believe that we HAVE lives of our own, but there it is. ) Just stored in the car, happy as a clam.

Now, just so you know, it is only license-holders that are protected under this law, not everyone. People who have had background checks, and have their fingerprints on file with the FBI. People who are not felons, or wife-beaters, or been Baker-acted. Truth is, just by virtue of my license, you know more about me than I know about you.

In addition, you are surrounded every day by people who carry concealed weapons legally. When you are at Disney, there are other Guests who have guns, I guarantee. They just bring them in. They are in the parking lot. They are in the Cast parking lot, too, and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. Yet, no one has shot up the place.

Next item: how much security and police presence there is at Disney is irrelevant. Seriously. Stop harping on it. :brick: I don't feel unsafe at Disney, and neither should you. Unfortunately, the security hosts and police don't escort me home. NO ONE IS SAYING THE CAST MEMBERS DON'T FEEL SAFE AT DISNEY. That's not the issue.

I don't bring my gun to the parking lot with me. I consider myself lucky to work only day shifts, and have only a 17 mile drive home though good areas. The other side is the Cast Member who can't afford the nice new Toyota. She drives a 1990 Buick that likes to break down. She works until 10:30 pm, and has to travel dark roads (thru the old orange groves maybe) to get home. A break-down leaves her waiting in the dark for AAA. Alone. This is the person who wants the choice to have a means of defense with her.

Also, how does Disney find the guns? Sometimes they use canines. Yes, seriously. They can smell the gunpowder in the car. Then the car is searched and a Cast Member loses a job, after being forced to choose between his life/well-being and his job. Tough choice, and no skin off Mickey's nose either way.

We are going to have to let the courts decide the issue here on property rights versus 2A rights. I believe that it can be worked out to address everyone's concerns, though.

Thanks for reading. Nice forum, btw. :sohappy:

 

[AEfx]

/raises hand to ask polite question

So it is legal in Flordia to just drive around with a gun in your car in the first place?

In the state I live in (and every surrounding state that I know of) you are not allowed to just drive around armed unless you have a Concealed Weapons Permit. Carrying a gun, especially a loaded gun, is a severe charge.

Just curious, I'll take an answer from either side LOL.

AEfx

 

[EPCOT.nut]

/raises hand to ask polite question

So it is legal in Flordia to just drive around with a gun in your car in the first place?

In the state I live in (and every surrounding state that I know of) you are not allowed to just drive around armed unless you have a Concealed Weapons Permit. Carrying a gun, especially a loaded gun, is a severe charge.

Just curious, I'll take an answer from either side LOL.

AEfx

Yes it is.