Disney doesn't allow guns at work!

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Ok, I have to ask...protected from what? Are people being carjacked or attacked in large numbers en route to Disney that it necessitates being armed at all times. You aren't travelling through a war zone. It's ridiculous that people think that they have to be armed at all times to be safe, which actually gives them a false sense of security. And now criminals will get more savy...all those guns in unprotected cars...I would like to see the statistics for stolen weapons, and whether or not it increases as a result of this law. And I concur with another poster, what is the point of having a gun if it is locked away in your car? The NRA (or whoever else supports this new law) can probably site case after case where people were victimized and a gun would have come in handy, but those numbers wouldn't even be a fraction of a percent of people travelling without incident.

Are gun laws going to stop criminals from obtaining weapons? Of course not. Is it going to deter them from comitting crimes for fear their victim might be armed. Nope. Only in smaller communities that already have low crime rates would you see a potential decrease in crime, but in general you would most likely see an increase. And that is what people in support of all these weapons on the street think. You can arm every single citizen with a weapon and I guarantee you the crime rate will increase, as will the number of accidental gunshot wounds. A report recently released indicated that about half of all gunshot wounds were accidental. If you want a gun to keep your home safe, then more power to you. But bringing a weapon into the public sphere is unproductive. The odds are greater for you to injure an innocent party rather than your attacker.

Completely untrue...in fact, the exact opposite is true...in the states where guns are more loosely controlled (ones that allow concealed weapons, etc.), crime rates are lower than heavily controlled states...for exactly the reason you stated in your post; when criminals fear that their victim may be armed, they are deterred from committing a crime. When they know that chances are slim that the victim may be armed, it's easier for them to choose to do harm...
 

sknydave

Active Member
2004 TX burglary rate: 0.979540841%
2004 US burglary rate: 0.730255759%
2004 CA burglary rate: 0.686074268%
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
Yeah, you're really going to put up a huge fight against an invading army. Did you just recently watch Red Dawn or something?

No, he probably just knows how effective resistance fighters can be, kind of like what is going on in a country near Iran and Kuwait right now...or in France during the early 1940's, etc., etc.
 

FreedomWrangler

Active Member
Completely untrue...in fact, the exact opposite is true...in the states where guns are more loosely controlled, crime rates are lower than heavily controlled states...for exactly the reason you stated in your post; when criminals fear that their victim may be armed, they are deterred from committing a crime. When they know that chances are slim that the victim may be armed, it's easier for them to choose to do harm...

I know this might be a sensitive subjective for some but I think a post earlier referenced VA Tech. I'll be delicate.

One kid with a gun, legally I think, walks around a campus shooting up the place. Most, if not all the students, faculty, SECURITY were unarmed.

It seems to me that the solution is more guns, not less, in the hands of trained, law abiding citizens to counter the criminals and the crazies.
 

shawnloughran

New Member
Yeah, you're really going to put up a huge fight against an invading army. Did you just recently watch Red Dawn or something?

OK. No, I never have seen red dawn.
I didn't join the broads to talk about warfare tactics.
To answer your question YES definitely, to a invading amry to go house to house, apartment to apartment, street to street, city to city, with armed people inside them. That would be a huge undertaking and yes it would be a huge fight.
Again. IT'S JUST MY OWN OPINION.....:animwink:
 

dox

New Member
We're getting so off topic here...

Back to the issue of whether Disney should or can tell its employees to not bring their guns to work in the cars. Based solely on the law as written Disney is well within their rights to forbid their employees from doing so as they qualify for that waiver. Second, even if that waiver didn't exist and Disney chose to not obey the law, they would sucessfully win this lawsuit. Under either the State or Federal Constitution, both the US Supreme Court and Florida Supreme Court have often weighed in on issues where employers are allowed to dictate all types of behavior on their property. There have been numerous rulings where both Courts have restricted all sorts of free speech rights of employees. The reality is Florida, like most states, is an at will employment state and employers have the right to restrict and curtail all types of activities.

For those of you bringing your guns on Disney property, I'd be very careful because Disney is private property and they may totally be within their rights to restrict you from being in possession of your gun.

Now getting back to the OT discussions...I totally believe in someone's right to own "some" guns for personal protection or hunting. But really is there any reason a citizen needs or should want to own any weapon classified as semi automatic, etc.?? If you're going to go hunting with that kind of a weapon, then you're not much of a hunter.

With respect to all these suspicious arguments about I know someone, castmember or noncastmember, who had a gun and protected themselves. By that same token I also know plenty of castmembers who have never needed a gun and have never been harassed on Disney property or at their homes.

What I can speak about is my personal experiences living in Miami during the 80s and 90s and working as a prosecutor there during the 90s. This idea that people need and use guns for personal protection is a huge urban myth (or in some cases I guess you'd say rural myth). First and foremost, during my years as a prosecutor and living in Miami, I never saw or heard of an instance where someone shot or even scared away a potential intruder or attacker with a gun. It just rarely if ever happens. When it has happened somewhere there is always a cloud of suspicion about it, like the Japanese teenager who was lost and looking for directions who was shot in the South because the gun owner thought he was a burglar. Or better yet the recent Texas case where an elderly man shot two burglars in the back who were running away from his neighbor's home. I have no sympathy for the burglars, but the guy shot them in the back and I believe they were unarmed, thus defeating any real argument of self defense or feeling that he was in danger (although the grand jury disagreed with me on that).

Do you want to know in what situations we would confront these arguments of self defense? Where one guy would shoot another? Basicaly, drug dealers and criminals who would shoot antoher drug dealer and criminal. Do you know where these guys obtained their guns? From breaking into the cars and homes of people in Florida, in particular cars. We had so many instances where lawful gun owners would come into Court asking that their guns be returned to them. Most of the time the serial numbers were filed off so we could not identify their original owners, as that would tie the person to another crime, i.e. a burglary.

And again for those who claim to know people who protected themselves with guns or heard stories, well I also know a few people who have "owned" guns. I say "owned" because everyone I know who has "owned" guns have had it stolen from them, with the exception of two friends. The others have had it stolen from their homes, apartments, and cars. I'm not including the burglary cases I worked on where guns were among the items invariably stolen.

The reality is most victims of violent crime and gun crime in this country are victimized by people they know, not some stranger in the street. Thats a fact.
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
I know this might be a sensitive subjective for some but I think a post earlier referenced VA Tech. I'll be delicate.

One kid with a gun, legally I think, walks around a campus shooting up the place. Most, if not all the students, faculty, SECURITY were unarmed.

It seems to me that the solution is more guns, not less, in the hands of trained, law abiding citizens to counter the criminals and the crazies.

Or, get this...maybe one pilot with a gun in the cockpit of the plane he was piloting on the morning of September 11th, 2001. Or a teacher with a gun in a classroom on the morning of April 20th, 1999 in Littleton, Colorado (the visions of what I saw in person that day will never leave me, nor will the frustration of not being allowed to do our job).

I don't claim to even know the right answer, but leaving options open and not closing the door on them is the proper thing to do.

Anyway, Disney, by way of the law, is within their right to prevent employees from bringing weaponsns to work.
 

sknydave

Active Member
No, he probably just knows how effective resistance fighters can be, kind of like what is going on in a country near Iran and Kuwait right now...or in France during the early 1940's, etc., etc.

You're comparing people sitting in their houses with personal weapons (which is what he talked about) to the insurgent army with decades of guerrilla warfare experience and military weapon supply currently fighting the US?
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
What I can speak about is my personal experiences living in Miami during the 80s and 90s and working as a prosecutor there during the 90s. This idea that people need and use guns for personal protection is a huge urban myth (or in some cases I guess you'd say rural myth). First and foremost, during my years as a prosecutor and living in Miami, I never saw or heard of an instance where someone shot or even scared away a potential intruder or attacker with a gun. It just rarely if ever happens.
I am not doubting you...I just find it difficult to believe. As a police officer in a major metro area in Colorado for 19 years, I saw no less than a dozen such cases. Now in the private sector, the hospital in which I work has seen 4 cases just this year of an individual shot by a citizen defending themselves...1 attempted carjacking, one attenpted armed robbery and 2 attempted home invasions.
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
You're comparing people sitting in their houses with personal weapons (which is what he talked about) to the insurgent army with decades of guerrilla warfare experience and military weapon supply currently fighting the US?

Most of the fighters in the streets haven't even been alive for decades, much less received anything in the way of proper training.

What is your answer for the French and Dutch 65 years ago?
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
I don't live in fear, I just use common sense. I don't live in fear of getting hit by a car, but I wear my seatbelt, etc... Of course we don't live in a warzone, but there are a lot of people up to no good at 2 in the morning. If you have to travel at that time it makes sense to have some protection. I wonder how many of you saying carrying guns is ridiculous have to often travel home from work very late into areas that aren't very safe.

I live in New York City. The chances of me being the victim of a crime (violent or not) are probably greater than those of most people here, since I go home late all the time (1:00am). My carrying a weapon (if it were legal) would not stop someone from attacking me. I think it's ridiculous that you think having the gun makes you safe. It doesn't. Wearing a seatbelt in a car has been proven to save lives (and you are more likely to be in a car accident than to be the victim of a violent crime). Gun ownership has not. If you are afraid to travel without a weapon in your car, then you ARE living in fear, and I feel sorry for you. People make choices. If someone really wants to hurt you, they won't let a gun get in their way (of course, not that the gun WON"T get in their way when you shoot them!). Most vicitms of violent crimes know or have some familiarity with the perpetrator.

Percentage wise, Pennsylvania has approximately the same violent crime rate as New York. Why do I bring that up? Pennsylvania has the most relaxed gun laws in the nation, and the largest number of NRA members. Yet its crime rate is comparable to New York. Guns simply do not deter criminals. To the point of the topic on hand, I am wondering exactly what the point of this law is? If you are driving down the interstate, exactly what purpose do you need for having a gun in your car that you would go to work with it? Unless you work at a crack-house in the ghetto, you really shouldn't need a weapon in your car.
 

mickeymaniacs

New Member
Ok I'm going to chime in on this because I see relevant points on both sides. I grew up around guns my brother has a safe stuffed with them and my husband and I are both hunters we don't carry guns on us at any time. I understand some people feel the need to carry for protection but martial arts training is just as effective in protecting yourself even against someone who is armed and it doesn't take years to learn. My only thing is that I have seen in the area that I live that guns in cars is a bad thing. Alot of factory shootings and cops getting killed because of lax gun control. My kids are well aware of the danger, they also know that in certain controlled situations that firing a weapon is ok with the proper training.My brother is an nra member and even he thinks that gun controll should be alittle tighter.I don't think you need to have it in a place like Disney. I get that some people say that they should be able to carry anywhere and where I lived in Texas for awhile it wasn't uncommon to see a guy walk into walmart carrying covertly in his jacket but if you're outside your car and you get mugged or jumped what good is a gun IN your locked car going to do you? It's supposed to be a safe place and I think maybe it would be best if they didn't have them on property.
 

sknydave

Active Member
Most of the fighters in the streets haven't even been alive for decades, much less received anything in the way of proper training.

What is your answer for the French and Dutch 65 years ago?

Are you dense? Soldiers are not benefactors of the years of experience their leaders possess?

The French Resistance fighters operated under the assistance and leadership of British and US special operations.

Again, what he described was a surprise attack on US neighborhoods. Obviously, when you start getting into years of conflict a citizen army can do some damage.
 

shawnloughran

New Member
Percentage wise, Pennsylvania has approximately the same violent crime rate as New York. Why do I bring that up? Pennsylvania has the most relaxed gun laws in the nation, and the largest number of NRA members. Yet its crime rate is comparable to New York. Guns simply do not deter criminals. To the point of the topic on hand, I am wondering exactly what the point of this law is?


I think that is the piont, Have anymore or anyless gun laws does not start or stop CRIMINALS.
So why take away anymore rights from law abiding citizens....
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
Are you dense? Soldiers are not benefactors of the years of experience their leaders possess?

The French Resistance fighters operated under the assistance and leadership of British and US special operations.

Again, what he described was a surprise attack on US neighborhoods. Obviously, when you start getting into years of conflict a citizen army can do some damage.


Name calling aside...I would happy to continue this in PM's as it is probably boring everyone else to tears.
 
I live in New York City. The chances of me being the victim of a crime (violent or not) are probably greater than those of most people here, since I go home late all the time (1:00am). My carrying a weapon (if it were legal) would not stop someone from attacking me. I think it's ridiculous that you think having the gun makes you safe. It doesn't. Wearing a seatbelt in a car has been proven to save lives (and you are more likely to be in a car accident than to be the victim of a violent crime). Gun ownership has not. If you are afraid to travel without a weapon in your car, then you ARE living in fear, and I feel sorry for you. People make choices. If someone really wants to hurt you, they won't let a gun get in their way (of course, not that the gun WON"T get in their way when you shoot them!). Most vicitms of violent crimes know or have some familiarity with the perpetrator.

Percentage wise, Pennsylvania has approximately the same violent crime rate as New York. Why do I bring that up? Pennsylvania has the most relaxed gun laws in the nation, and the largest number of NRA members. Yet its crime rate is comparable to New York. Guns simply do not deter criminals. To the point of the topic on hand, I am wondering exactly what the point of this law is? If you are driving down the interstate, exactly what purpose do you need for having a gun in your car that you would go to work with it? Unless you work at a crack-house in the ghetto, you really shouldn't need a weapon in your car.

You are correct in that a gun doesn't "make you safe"...but it (with proper training) increases the chances that if you are "attacked", you can either defend yourself or "scare off" the attacker...just the same as wearing a seat belt doesn't "prevent" you from getting in an accident, but it increases the chances that you'll live through it...
 
As for the original topic...

How would they really enforce this? I mean they have what, 30,000 employees? They can't search every car when the employees get to work...
 
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