Disney doesn't allow guns at work!

[jmicro59]

Just go to WDW and start stealing guns out of cars til that number is a bit more even

Hmmmm, steal weapons from CM's cars, ship them back home, sell on black market, make big profit go to WDW whenever I wanted to. This is too good there's gotta be a downside.. :ROFLOL:

 

[GrowingUpDisney]

Ok, I have to ask...protected from what? Are people being carjacked or attacked in large numbers en route to Disney that it necessitates being armed at all times. You aren't travelling through a war zone. It's ridiculous that people think that they have to be armed at all times to be safe, which actually gives them a false sense of security. And now criminals will get more savy...all those guns in unprotected cars...I would like to see the statistics for stolen weapons, and whether or not it increases as a result of this law. And I concur with another poster, what is the point of having a gun if it is locked away in your car? The NRA (or whoever else supports this new law) can probably site case after case where people were victimized and a gun would have come in handy, but those numbers wouldn't even be a fraction of a percent of people travelling without incident.

Are gun laws going to stop criminals from obtaining weapons? Of course not. Is it going to deter them from comitting crimes for fear their victim might be armed. Nope. Only in smaller communities that already have low crime rates would you see a potential decrease in crime, but in general you would most likely see an increase. And that is what people in support of all these weapons on the street think. You can arm every single citizen with a weapon and I guarantee you the crime rate will increase, as will the number of accidental gunshot wounds. A report recently released indicated that about half of all gunshot wounds were accidental. If you want a gun to keep your home safe, then more power to you. But bringing a weapon into the public sphere is unproductive. The odds are greater for you to injure an innocent party rather than your attacker.

I now know why I never really respond to posts. The simple sarcasm makes me wish I never posted in the first place, but I will defend myself -

protected from what? - From people who harm others. Those people do exist in case you have not seen a TV or hear a radio or read a newspaper lately. I have actually been traveling down the road and had a gun pointed at me from a car in the lane beside me. BAD PEOPLE DO EXIST and protecting myself would not be near as important as protecting my boys from someone hurting them.

It's ridiculous that people think that they have to be armed at all times to be safe, which actually gives them a false sense of security.
- So are you saying that we are falsely secure in our safety if we have been to a range, trained on our gun and could use it if neccessary? NO -I would say we are absolutely safe and secure. Nothing false about that.

I am in full agreement with the folks that say that if there were more law abiding AND TRAINED citizens carrying guns that there would be less crime.

No one needs to agree with me or my opinions, but to respond sarcastically as if I am not educated enough to have an opinion is simply unfair.

Niki

 

[MarKing]

Is the red text suppose to represent the blood shed from victims of gun related crimes?

No, it wasn't. I usually use a different color text when I'm responding to someone in the middle of their quote. Interesting observation though.

 

[MarKing]

Thats awesome. You make going to work sound like a couple of tours through Vietnam.

Some people, for many reasons, live and/or work in places that are far less safe than Vietnam.

The problem you seem to be looking over, and its actually been mentioned here at least once, is that most gun owners don't take the proper precautions with locking up their firearm. Locking a gun in the center console of your car is not going to stop ANYONE from getting to it.

Do you have stats to prove that because I think you are wrong. Sure there are always a few irresponsible folks regardless of what the issue is. But for the most part, gun owners/CCW holders are very responsible people.

But according to you and others, there's no crime because its Disney World. So items left in cars should be safe. Everyone there is a good and moral person. People who attend Disney parks don't commit crimes.

And that is being just as selfish as everyone here thinks the Fla gov't is being. When a criminal can break into your car, get a gun and then use that gun to commit a crime--that is garbage. I think that if Fla is going to enact these laws than they should also enact laws that apply to the original owner of the gun. If your gun was stolen from your car and used in a robbery, than by all means you should face damages also. You have the gun to protect yourselves from the criminal element, you should also have the decency to protect others from the damage your gun can have.

Should that also apply to any tool or object that is stolen from someone?

You have to weigh the options. Of course everyone should have the right to protect themselves from harm. But when that right becomes a danger to others, as I believe it would in this case, than it should not be allowed. Its a give and take, two-sided scenario. Violence at Disney has never escalated to a point where guns were necesary or even warranted, why create issues where they don't need to be created.

The issue is not and has never been crime at Disney, but to and from for employees. I've said in a previous post that firearms are not necessary in the park.

I'm a firm believer in the less government the better and also a firm believer in the less guns the better. Use them for sport, use them responsibly. We don't need to introduce them to a place that has produced no valid reasons to carry them. Unfortunately, thats not the case in this country. Criminals exist and most gun owners are careless--as far as I'm concerned. I worry more about the careless gun owner than I do the lone random criminal.

I worry about the careless gun owner too. But there are more criminals than there are careless gun owners.

 

[MarKing]

By your logic, you're supporting the ability of criminals to gain weapons by having them in cars in peoples workplaces? :shrug:

But this is Disney we're talking about. Nothing bad ever happens at Disney, right?

And according to many who have posted there is so little crime, making CCWing unecesarry, that there should few to no instances of firearms or anything else being stolen from cars.

 

[MarKing]

Hey EPCOT.nut, this is what i meant by a gun-nut. He's making the rest of you look really bad.

(go back to page one, kids)

It has never been my attemp to make anyone look bad, only to express my opinion and make a positive case for CCW and self defense.

I may come accross as being a gun-nut or dooms-dayer, but five years ago when my son was born and I held him for the first time, I experienced something I will never forget. I felt as if God had cracked the door of Heaven open just a bit and I was able to experience just a small hint of what He must feel for His children. As I prayed a blessing over my son, I promised that I would love and care for him all of my days. I would sacrifice whatever I had too to provide him a good life and keep him safe from harm, even if it meant laying down my life or taking another.

I made that decision five years ago, and each day since, I take every precaution necessary to make sure I keep that promise; whether its strapping him in his booster seat or keeping my CCW permit current. Because I understand and accept that there is evil in this world. There are those who woulldn't blink an eye or lose a moments sleep at the thought of hurting or taking the life of another.

Those people may be few and far between, but I do what I can to make sure that the next sound bite you hear on the news or the next article you read in the paper or online is not the story of my family being the victim of violence.

If that makes me a gun-nut or a wacko, then so be it. I can live with it, and I think he can too.

 

[MarKing]

Ok, I have to ask...protected from what? Are people being carjacked or attacked in large numbers en route to Disney that it necessitates being armed at all times. You aren't travelling through a war zone. It's ridiculous that people think that they have to be armed at all times to be safe, which actually gives them a false sense of security.

How many people need to be carjacked before you approve self-defense? You think regular training gives someone a false sense of security?

And now criminals will get more savy...all those guns in unprotected cars...I would like to see the statistics for stolen weapons, and whether or not it increases as a result of this law.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

10 - 15% of guns used in crime are stolen from cars. I agree that it is higher than should be, but still minimal.

And I concur with another poster, what is the point of having a gun if it is locked away in your car? The NRA (or whoever else supports this new law) can probably site case after case where people were victimized and a gun would have come in handy, but those numbers wouldn't even be a fraction of a percent of people travelling without incident.

Again, as others have stated, it is for travel to and from work.

Are gun laws going to stop criminals from obtaining weapons? Of course not. Is it going to deter them from comitting crimes for fear their victim might be armed. Nope.

Only in smaller communities that already have low crime rates would you see a potential decrease in crime, but in general you would most likely see an increase.

You are wrong.

Please read: http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp

And that is what people in support of all these weapons on the street think. You can arm every single citizen with a weapon and I guarantee you the crime rate will increase, as will the number of accidental gunshot wounds.

We are not talking about arming 'every single citizen,' only those who accept the responsibility of CCWing. Those who accept that responsibility by the way, are statistically less likely to have a negligent discharge or commit a crime.

Also, criminals love unarmed victims. John Stossell of 20/20 has had numerous interviews related to the subject. You can You Tube a few if you'd like.

A report recently released indicated that about half of all gunshot wounds were accidental. If you want a gun to keep your home safe, then more power to you. But bringing a weapon into the public sphere is unproductive. The odds are greater for you to injure an innocent party rather than your attacker.

Link or source please.

Do you realize that more people are saved each year by those who CCW than are victims of crimes? The article linked above addresses that issue as well.

 

[MarKing]

Straight from ABC/Disney:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3149487

Watch the whole thing.

 

[EpcoTim]

Some people, for many reasons, live and/or work in places that are far less safe than Vietnam.

I was refering to the war. And I grew up in Chicago. Lived in Vegas, Phoenix and Detroit also. I know bad areas. I also know that if someone tries to rob me on the EL, the chances of me getting to my gun first are slim to none. And I might be putting others at risk.

Do you have stats to prove that because I think you are wrong. Sure there are always a few irresponsible folks regardless of what the issue is. But for the most part, gun owners/CCW holders are very responsible people.

I'm sure there are stats in it, not sure how reliable they would be. But let's look at it briefly. For a gun to be effective it would need to be out of its secured and locked case/box and the trigger lock would have to be removed, and it would have to be within an easily reachable range. So said gun owner gets in the car unlocks secured case, removes trigger lock, gun and sets it in the center console. Said gun owner gets to grocery store (any destination) uncocks gun, puts trigger lock back on, moves gun back into secure lockbox. All the while with kids in the back of the car waiting to go and get out. Do you see the average already rushed soccer mom or dad going through this procedure every time they get in the car?? I sure as heck don't. So what happens...... the gun sits in the glovebox or center console. The trigger lock falls behind the baby's car seat never to be used again. The key to the safety box gets accidentally thrown out in the window in a ball of McDonalds garbage. The gun remains in the center console. Easily stolen, easily found by a curious toddler, easily accidentally fired. Sure, I'm sure some people will take the time to go through the routine of having a safe trip to Burger King, but that would be a very small minority.

Should that also apply to any tool or object that is stolen from someone?

No, one buys a gun knowing its potential and its main purpose. One should also be held responsible for where that gun is and how its kept safe from thiefing criminal hands. It should automatically come with the territory of owning a gun that the owner is RESPONSIBLE for it and what is done with it. Just because someone is late for whatever reason, doesn't give them an excuse to not lock up the gun, yet many will use that as an excuse. And if you wanted to do the same thing for hammers, sure, go ahead. I highly doubt the number of stolen hammer related deaths and muggings is even a small percentage of what it is for guns. I don't see the big deal here, if a gun is stored and kept properly, there shouldn't be anything to worry about, but why should a gun owner not have to claim responsibility for the whereabouts of his/her gun? What if the owners child gets a hold of the gun and accidentally kills a friend? Well, not the gun owners fault, the gun was in the glovebox right where it should have been, right? It's responsibility, I don't see the problem with it.


The issue is not and has never been crime at Disney, but to and from for employees.

Ok and thats fine, but why in the car, why not in a Disney run lock box or something similar. Do I feel safe knowing that employees have guns in there cars? I don't know, never really thought about it. Do some of them have them right now--I'm sure of it. Will this increase the chances of an underappreciated, hard working castmember going "postal"? No idea, but I would think it might. But this also goes beyond employees, because you have a lot guests saying that they will be bringing their guns also. Disney is not crime free. Cars get broken into all the time, wallets lifted, strollers stolen. Petty crimes--do we need to shoot the kid who swiped the mickey ears off the stroller? No. Guests cars get broken into I would assume a fair amount. For change, possibly a radar detector. Now that kid who just popped your window so he could buy a soda has just stumbled upon a gun. Or the guy who wanted your garmin just found a gun, and hes in a parking lot without much supervision, well hidden, and oh look, here come some tourists with most likely pockets full of cash. Unlikely scenario? Maybe. But so is the likelihood of some nut sticking up the line for the Tea Cups.

I fear careless gun owners and criminals alike. But in a situation like the one presented at WDW, my fears would lay heavily on the careless gun owner.

And my point is is that it's give and take. Does everyone deserve the right to protect themselves? Of course. Do other, non-gun carrying people deserve to possibly have their rights affected by gun owners? Nope. And in this situation I see the coin toss going to the non-gun owners. Beyond the employees, back to the guests, I see no reason for it. Disney has never been a hot spot for armed violence, why plant the seed and allow every Joe and Jane to keep a gun in the glovebox? It's Disney, its safe, it always has been, and if your smart and take precautions the chances of getting robbed are slim to none and you have a much greater chance of dying in a car wreck while you fold the map or look away from the road to call grammy and tell her that little brandon took a leek all over the golf ball ride. And what a lot pf people don't understand, that if you make a movement to reach for a gun, your dead. Whether it be by law enforcement, or criminal. And if you have a CCW here, you have to declare that upon being pulled over by a uniformed officer, and its a big mess. And a lot of people dont know that. And do you think the average person is going to be a Wyatt Earp and be able to get the gun out and shoot before the bad guy does? Not likely. I just see them as doing a lot more harm on Disney property than good---as far as employees who need to protect themselves, well, thats a tough one, but maybe those three monkeys can teach us something. See no evil.....Hear no evil......etc.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Guns and a God, a sure fire combination of death and disaster.

MarKing, not once have you answered my points directly, you believe that guns give you protection, and you can never accept that the proliferation of guns and the ease of availability is in anyway connected with gun crimes.

If you look at the UK news you will see that there has been yet another knife murder in London, it should be noted that while just as common outside London they dont count as the world ends north of Watford, can you imagine if these teens had access to guns? A knife kills or wounds who ever is stabbed, a round dosent always hit the person it was fired at.

And again Ill ask, how many school shootings has the US had since Dunblane and how do your violence figures compare to France & Germany.

Your case, is generally opinion, with rhetoric from the gun lobby chucked in, as I say I couldnt care less its not as if it effects me. But it is odd that the defenders of gun crime on one hand are painting a picture of being besieged in their homes, while at the same time claiming guns make them safer and are behind the reduction in shootings, and heres me thinking that was to do with more Police on the streets.

And one thing you should know, its not that difficult to prize a fire arm from a corpses hand, regardless of the body temp, and not particularly glamorous either.

 

[sbkline]

Guns and a God, a sure fire combination of death and disaster.

MarKing, not once have you answered my points directly, you believe that guns give you protection, and you can never accept that the proliferation of guns and the ease of availability is in anyway connected with gun crimes.

If you look at the UK news you will see that there has been yet another knife murder in London, it should be noted that while just as common outside London they dont count as the world ends north of Watford, can you imagine if these teens had access to guns? A knife kills or wounds who ever is stabbed, a round dosent always hit the person it was fired at.

And again Ill ask, how many school shootings has the US had since Dunblane and how do your violence figures compare to France & Germany.

Your case, is generally opinion, with rhetoric from the gun lobby chucked in, as I say I couldnt care less its not as if it effects me. But it is odd that the defenders of gun crime on one hand are painting a picture of being besieged in their homes, while at the same time claiming guns make them safer and are behind the reduction in shootings, and heres me thinking that was to do with more Police on the streets.

And one thing you should know, its not that difficult to prize a fire arm from a corpses hand, regardless of the body temp, and not particularly glamorous either.

I guess it's all in how you look at things, because I look at it from the perspective that if the victim(s) of this knife murder had guns (or if anyone nearby had them), then perhaps they could had defended themselves and it would be the attackers who would be dead and not the victims. Just as in the school shootings here, since the murderers are not law abiding citizens, they don't respect the laws anyway, so gun laws aren't going to keep them from getting guns...especially in those cases where the guns themselves are the illegal type. I look at it from the point of view that what if the teachers had guns? They could nip the whole thing in the bud and there could have been much fewer deaths than there were.

Of course, according to you and your political theory, we don't need guns because we should instead be relying on this omnipresent, omnipotent God of Government to protect us at all times, through the police force. Tell me again, how did that work out for those folks in that knife crime you were telling us about?

 

[The Mom]

IMO, this has become one circuitous argument from both sides of the aisle, and nothing new has been added in several posts. I doubt that anyone is going to change anyone else's mind, and a game of "my statistics beat your statistics"(with one side or the other dismissing them because they were reported from a biased source) or "my fears trump your fears" is not going to lead to any sort of resolution, so this thread is over until an actual court ruling is made. Then, we can all come back and debate the legality of said ruling.

As I stated earlier, it will be interesting to see how this case is resolved, but as in most issues of determining what is or is not a right PROTECTED (not granted) by our Constitution, the debate will continue for many years regardless of the court decision.