Disney Dining Experience Changes

[napnet]

I just got an e-mail from Zoraya Suarez (a spokeswoman for Disney) who indicated that this was for DDE members only.

 

[Trishnh]

I just got an e-mail from Zoraya Suarez (a spokeswoman for Disney) who indicated that this was for DDE members only.

It would be nice if Disney cast members were informed so they could actually give a correct answer:hammer: I am sure they dont enjoy being bombarded by questions that they dotn know the correct answer to either!

 

[CBOMB]

I just would like to see Disney go back to the old days - no dining plan, no automatic tips, no crazy 180 days advanced reservations. How nice it would be to book with a days notice - or even a walk up!

As it currently is, since the dining plan introduction, menus have shrunk, quality has declined, restaurants are rediculously crowded, and booking reservations has become a sometimes impossible chore, and not at all fun.

Thanks for posting that statement Steve. A lot of people have felt that way from the start of the DDP, myself included. What makes it different is that you own a huge Disney Fan Site. When a person dedicates their love, and lively hood to a particular product it should carry some influence in the Disney community. Having read numerous other fan sites' it would be hard to find anyone who is thrilled with this latest move. I feel that Disney will leave it in place for a while, just to see how it's accepted by the majority of guest. I do feel that if enough complaints are received they will ultimately reverse their decision.

^^^ Bingo!

This is a DISASTER!

One of the big draws for my wife and I on a WDW trip is the DDP, making the reservations and enjoying the excellent food and service. We have ALWAYS received great service and had wonderful food at the WDW restaurants we have visited. However, if they are trying to keep people "on property" through their dining then Disney is failing MISERABLY with this change.

This single action renders the DDP worthless. Why spend the same amount for the DDP when you can spend cash and have the selection of ANYTHING ANYWHERE without the limitations of choice on the DDP. I argue that you can avoid the DDP altogether and still eat the same food at the same locations for practically the same amount of money overall.

I am one of those rare individuals that believes and always has that tipping is an antiquated/outdated cultural dinosaur. Restaurants, indeed any business, should not expect me to subsidise their employees paycheck over and above the provided service/product. When you go to Kinko's and the assistant behind the counter takes your copy order and brings you the resulting copies do you feel you should give them a tip? When you get your oil changed at Jiffy Lube do you feel you should give them a tip? When you pick up your dry cleaning do you feel you should give them a tip? Why not? Please don't misunderstand me, I am not against the concept of tipping itself. Indeed, I am more than happy to tip if the service was above and beyond. However, I am against the inherent, automatic understanding we have in our culture that when it comes to food in a restaurant, we should give the server something over and above the cost of the food. People always say to me, "But Alan, servers don't make enough with their salary alone. They rely on tips to make up the rest." Do you not see the error inherent in this statement? "don't make enough with THEIR SALARY". The restaurant should be paying their servers salary... not me. "But that would mean they would have to raise the prices on the food", you say. Well, if your FORCED to pay 18% but the food is 18% cheaper then you are paying it ANYWAY! So what's the difference? Restaurant businesses are simply milking this old cultural idiocy so they don't have to pay their servers as much Is this not clear to us all? But then these business can fall back on the concept. Why pay more when the suckers coming in the door will pay the rest of their salary costs for them because of some outdated, ingrained foolishness?

Clearly the reason they arn't simply adding the additional gratuity into the cost of the food is for the same reason that stores sell products for 12.99 instead of 13.00. Because, psychologically you think of 12.99 as 12 not 13 even though it is a mere .01 cent away. "$24.99 plus gratuity" seems much better than "$29.49" when they are the same thing.

The reservations issue is easily solved by requiring a credit card and charging a "service fee" if you don't show for the ressie.

As for the idea that getting a tip or not will result in a level of service, I say that good service comes from proper management of people and paying them appropriately in the first place not by relying on tips. If you have a server under your charge that is giving poor service, then your job as their manager is to correct their behavior or fire them. It's that simple. I don't know about you but I have been to great McDonalds with excellent service and I have been to crappy ones with horrible service and they are being paid approximately the same at both. Management is key critical to the success of any service oriented business.

First they take the Appetizer, then they start this foolishness over the Gratuity. The only thing this change will accomplish is to put dining in wonderful settings with great food out of the reach of more Disney park goers. Shame on you Disney!

All very good points, I also agree that we should have stopped tipping a long time ago. At a lot of eating establishments the tip is divided between the servers, busing staff, dish washers, and a lot of times the cooking staff. So we are basicly subsidizing most of their employees. I don't normally think Europe, and other countries are always ahead of western ideas, but when it comes to tipping, I most certainly do. I think it would be very difficult to implement this plan now because we are so indoctrinated into the idea of tipping. It will call for almost an uprising by the majority of Americans to implement a different plan, but I do agree with you. I've said from the very begining that the DDP would continue to show diminishing value, and ruin the dining experience at WDW. This is just another step.

K..this is totally off topic and I will not even get into this argument!! How about a loud and obnoxious drunks section and a well-behaved citizen section?

That might work.
However my wife, and I could never dine together.
I hate it when she gets drunk, and obnoxious!

 

[napnet]

Ms. Suarez just wrote me back and said “this is not a policy change across property for regular day guests or individuals on the dining plan.”

 

[mousefan1972]

Ms. Suarez just wrote me back and said “this is not a policy change across property for regular day guests or individuals on the dining plan.”

I really wish they could get their stories straight!! :hammer:

 

[Brian Noble]

It would be nice if Disney cast members were informed so they could actually give a correct answer

Why should things be any different in this case?

 

[tecowdw]

Well, there is certainly alot of fervor about this topic. My opinion is that I am offended by the notion that a tip should be automatically to my bill.

What I don't understand is why servers, in general, feel they are *entitled* to a tip. To me, as the person that is forking over the money, the tip is to reward for above average service. Just by paying for the meal, I have already paid for the meal to be serviced in the most minimal, average way. What earns the tip is that the server is attentive, accurate and pleasant which adds to my dining experience. In my eyes, provide great service and I will feel like tipping well; provide average service and the server will get an average tip; provide me bad service and I have the right to give a bad tip.

Personally, while I do have the DDE card, I feel the table service restaurants at Disney are over priced while the quality is pretty average. I will keep my DDE card but probably primarily for the discount at food courts. I think this is a bad PR move on Disney's part.

 

[nbodyhome]

It would be nice if Disney cast members were informed so they could actually give a correct answer:hammer: I am sure they dont enjoy being bombarded by questions that they dotn know the correct answer to either!

Considering that one of the stipulations of the contract was a tip on 6 guests or more (down from 8), it seemed contrary for Disney to state anything different now. This was what I expected (DDE and cast members, and parties of 6 or more, as was what the union contract said).


Denise

 

[brkgnews]

Ms. Suarez just wrote me back and said “this is not a policy change across property for regular day guests or individuals on the dining plan.”

Now... the question is.... original intent of policy, or "Holy crap!" backpedal?

Did she comment on if this was "regardless of party size" or not?

 

[Brian Noble]

original intent of policy, or "Holy crap!" backpedal?

The simplest explanation is that this is just a poorly worded email message, combined with Disney's usual difficulties explaining a new policy to thousands of Cast at once.

 

[brkgnews]

The simplest explanation is that this is just a poorly worded email message, combined with Disney's usual difficulties explaining a new policy to thousands of Cast at once.

Mr Occam, your razor is ready.

Could well be a poorly-worded email message, but this thing is inherently confusing to deal with. Anybody remember the debacle trying to find out the truth behind Passholder Best Rate? And that eventually went away due to its inherent (apparent) stupidity and complicatedness.

 

[napnet]

Now... the question is.... original intent of policy, or "Holy crap!" backpedal?

Did she comment on if this was "regardless of party size" or not?

Nope... pretty much all i posted is what she e-mailed me. Sounds like it doesn't matter the size otherwise she would have said so. She was replying to me from a news article i posted on another Disney fan site.

 

[DVC Mike]

First things first, it reeks of them trying to coerce people into paying for the Disney Dining Experience card... "Your dinner bill will be 18% more next year, but you can save 20% by paying $60-80 for this card." In actuality, the net effect of having DDE will be a 2% discount over what we should be paying... and even THAT is after you make up the cost of the card itself. Up until this morning I was considering the DDE card...

Your math doesn't add up.

Let's say I go to Artist Point and spend $250 without the DDE. I add on an 18% tip and spend $295.

I spend $65 on the DDE and have the same meal - they add the tip off the $250, but subtract the 20% DDE discount. I now spend $245 on our meal. I've still saved $50 on a single meal.

Do that over the course of a vacation, and the DDE can more than pay for itself! It's still a great deal.

 

[lentesta]

So the purpose of the DDE card is, essentially, a free gratuity? I can take that. I'm sure many of us tip more than 18% however, but I don't know what the average gratuity is across WDW. So I'm not sure whether the life of the average server is better or worse for that.

The other thing about having an automatic 18% gratuity is that it's much easier for the government to calculate your earnings and taxes. Without taking sides in any debate on the subject, I'll say that this is surely a drop in income for many folks.

Finally, what happens if your service is really, really bad? Does the restaurant give you back 8% or whatever (if you wanted to tip 10%), or is it just "tough cookies" for you?

Len

 

[tecowdw]

Your math doesn't add up.

Let's say I go to Artist Point and spend $250 without the DDE. I add on an 18% tip and spend $295.

I spend $65 on the DDE and have the same meal - they add the tip off the $250, but subtract the 20% DDE discount. I now spend $245 on our meal. I've still saved $50 on a single meal.

Do that over the course of a vacation, and the DDE can more than pay for itself! It's still a great deal.

You might spend $250 in a restaurant??? A single restaurant? One single seating?

 

[tigsmom]

Just got this in my email this morning. Sorry if it's old news. But they've got new places to get your permanent cards instead of waiting for them by mail. And DDE members are tipping 18% automatically.

Fromt DDE Membership:

Greetings from the Disney Dining Experience Team!

As 2008 quickly approaches, you will begin to see some exciting new developments for the Disney Dining Experience Membership Program. You asked and we listened! Effective November 11, 2007, you will no longer have to wait 3 – 6 weeks to receive your permanent membership card(s).

Guest Relations locations at Epcot®, MAGIC KINGDOM® Park, DISNEY’S ANIMAL KINGDOM® Theme Park, Disney-MGM Studios, DOWNTOWN DISNEY® West Side, and DOWNTOWN DISNEY® Marketplace will now be able to print permanent Disney Dining Experience membership cards for immediate use. This service is designed for existing and new members. Cards produced at the Guest Relations locations will be printed on paper stock similar to the annual pass tickets.

The Disney Dining Experience office will still be available to take applications for current and new members, via the phone, fax or mail for those who do not want to take advantage of the in-park service. Membership cards ordered through the Disney Dining Experience office will be received within 2 - 3 weeks of purchase.

All Guests who have ordered their Disney Dining Experience membership cards prior to November 11, 2007 date will have to pickup their temporary cards at the main entrance Epcot® Guest Relations. Your permanent card will be sent through the mail and arrive in 3-4 weeks from the date of purchase.

We would also like to inform you that the Walt Disney World® Resort will be implementing an across property policy change regarding gratuity at all food and beverage locations. Effective January 1, 2008, 18% gratuity will be added to all transactions, regardless of party size. Thank you for your continued support.

Cheers!


The Disney Dining Experience Team

Well, I haven't taken the time to read every post ( I was directed here from another thread), but I have a distinct problem with this.

18% gratuity automatically added? By definition a gratuity is something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service. You cannot force somebody to leave a gratuity. I have no problem with the amount as I usually leave at least 20%, but I will not be forced to leave a tip if I feel one is not warranted. They should call it what it really is, a service fee.

 

[Laura]

Precisley.

The last time my wife and I went to Emeril's Orlando we had our then 6 month old daughter with us. This child was normally an angel at resturants but on thins night was just miserable so my wife and I ate in shifts. One would take our screaming rug rat outside and the other would eat. She of course fell asleep promptly at the end of desert.

I've spent many meals sitting in the van with a screaming kid while the other half of the family ate in silence. Luckily my kids are past that stage now!

This is exactly what I will be doing along with several other DDE members I have spoken to today. We were normally 20% and up tippers but since Disney decided to make 18% mandatory then that is all they will get from us.

Same here. I almost always tip 20%. It would take some really bad service to get me to tip lower. But if they're gonna make it automatic, I'm not gonna bother adding a few more bucks. They can have my 18%.

I thought this was interesting. Here is the Merriam Webster definition of the word gratuity:

something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service



Are they going to start calling it something else when it is no longer voluntary? :shrug:

No kidding! They should call it a "table clean-up" fee or something. UGH! So ridiculous.

Just by paying for the meal, I have already paid for the meal to be serviced in the most minimal, average way. What earns the tip is that the server is attentive, accurate and pleasant which adds to my dining experience.

Exactly!

Tipping these days is nothing more than an excuse for restaurants to pay their servers an insanely low paycheck. I'd much rather pay more for my food and not have to tip at all. Tipping is really out of control and I think it's absurd to automatically include it.

If Disney is worried that their servers aren't getting enough income from gratuities then they should be paying them more out of THEIR OWN pocket instead of the customers. (Or heck - maybe train them to be better servers so they can earn better gratuities!)

So let me get this straight - now they are removing automatic tipping from the dining plan, but adding it to the dining experience? That's just stupid.

But oh well. Now DDE will save me 22% instead of 20%. Their loss.

 

[napnet]

I ususally tip the amount i saved with my DDE (course it only cost me like 60 bein an AP & FL Rez) so they already get 20%. I think thats mainly because i'm too lazy to try and calculate it out. But to me, if my service at Disney required a lower tip, i would have talked to a manager and expected something comped. I'm not opposed to it mainly becaues i already tip more than that and probably still will.

 

[brkgnews]

Your math doesn't add up.

Let's say I go to Artist Point and spend $250 without the DDE. I add on an 18% tip and spend $295.

I spend $65 on the DDE and have the same meal - they add the tip off the $250, but subtract the 20% DDE discount. I now spend $245 on our meal. I've still saved $50 on a single meal.

Do that over the course of a vacation, and the DDE can more than pay for itself! It's still a great deal.

You're rich. :animwink: I typically go solo (maybe one other person)... so it'll take me a bit longer to make up the difference. Like I said before, the PI discount was really the tipping point (no pun intended). I'll probably still go ahead and do it because it admittedly still is a savings. But I still just don't like the concept of a "forced tip" -- it breaks something inside me. :lol:

 

[Glasgow]

Absolutely ridiculous. As someone said before, call it what it is --- a service fee, or a subsidization of a worker's salary. Whatever you call it, it's no longer a voluntary cost -- just raise the cost of the food, but don't insult me by trying to pass it off under the heading of "gratuity".

This defeats the whole purpose of the tip in the first place -- a server should earn this .. and consequently I will be more than happy to oblige with further compensation.