Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[TP2000]

Well that was just stupid from a PR standpoint. I think if you want to talk about how your movie is trying to "permeate the patriarchy" you do so AFTER the film has been released so that people don't form pre-exisitng ideas and political talking points about it.

Agreed. But this proves my point about the Silver Lake Brunch Community that populates most studio executive buildings; they are insular, shockingly provincial, and live in a total bubble world where they think everyone says the same talking points as they do and shares the same stylish and pre-approved Opinion Du Jour that they do.

Thus, you get stuff like this where they say the quiet part out loud and don't know why they shouldn't. At this point, I find it hard to feel sorry for them because they just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Archie Bunker and George Jefferson are groundbreaking (and controversial) characters that went where no previous shows really went. At least not on that level. They were not some clueless dads in the background while their kids ran circles around them. They changed TV. They don’t ruin it.

Norman Lear changed tv. Bunker and Jefferson are both absolutely clueless, not to mention both racist. That was the point. No one said they ruined tv. It was brilliant television. But they were both buffoons.

 

[TP2000]

Wonka hasn't released overseas in some Asian countries yet, but it just passed the $400 Million mark at the global box office as of yesterday. Wonka is now about $10 Million away from breaking even. At some point tomorrow evening in a darkened theater, Wonka will break even and begin pulling in a profit.

Wish is nowhere near that, and it lost over $200 Million at the box office. What's most striking is that Wonka has done over double the overseas box office that Wish has. Wish got a very tepid response from Americans, but foreign audiences showed even less interest in it. Wonka, on the other hand, is a hit with those same foreign audiences.

The brand and box office problem Disney has isn't just an American problem, it's a global problem.

 

[LittleBuford]

In the new movies he was going to murder a sleeping child, then became a recluse, then wouldn’t lift a finger to help anyone, and then finally only redeemed himself in the movie that was trying to undo the previous movies for how poorly they were received.

I just noticed the bolded, @Vegas Disney Fan. I think you’re conflating the Rise of Skywalker with The Last Jedi. Luke’s self-sacrifice happens in the second film of the sequel trilogy, not the third. It wasn’t a belated form of revisionism as you suggest. (Also, the first film of the trilogy wasn’t poorly received from what I recall.)

 

[erasure fan1]

This is precisely what makes the film so polarizing.

It's funny because that was done intentionally. Rian has said that his goal in filmmaking is a 50/50 split. Half the audience loves what he did and other half hates what he did. He says that is much more interesting.

Additionally, while echoing Obi-Wan’s hermitage, Luke’s portrayal as disillusioned and broken was a stark contrast to the hopeful and proactive figure seen in the original trilogy.

The difference with the obi-wan comparison of going into hiding isn't really justified. Obi-wan went into hiding to protect Luke and wait for the right time to continue the fight. If they echoed that same thing with Luke, no one has a problem. If Luke's on that island because of some reason that turns the tides against the first order. Great! And while he's there he can discover a better path forward for the Jedi. Not, oh well, I give up. Knowing full well that him throwing in the towel means almost a for sure loss to the resistance.

It’s important to respect those who feel let down by this portrayal, just as we respect those who enjoyed the film’s direction. Understanding and acknowledging these differing viewpoints is vital in the discourse around this divisive film.

Unless you disagree that Luke was handled poorly. Then you're just wrong. Lol

 

[BuddyThomas]

Wonka hasn't released overseas in some Asian countries yet, but it just passed the $400 Million mark at the global box office as of yesterday. Wonka is now about $10 Million away from breaking even. At some point tomorrow evening in a darkened theater, Wonka will break even and begin pulling in a profit.

Wish is nowhere near that, and it lost over $200 Million at the box office. What's most striking is that Wonka has done over double the overseas box office that Wish has. Wish got a very tepid response from Americans, but foreign audiences showed even less interest in it. Wonka, on the other hand, is a hit with those same foreign audiences.

The brand and box office problem Disney has isn't just an American problem, it's a global problem.

View attachment 761653

No one here except maybe TWade is concerned with Wish anymore. Those of us who wanted to see it have seen it. The rest of you….well…whatever. But continuing to gloat about box office results at this point is getting extremely tired.

 

[DKampy]

Even live events can be seen without cable. There are Roku live local channels. I have an antenna setup to the Roku's Tablo DVR for watch Svengoolie on MeTV. I can record the Academy Awards and the Rose parade without cable.

Ahhh…I don’t have Roku…I stream through Apple TV…I do think as time goes on…more live TV will be available on streaming…cable is a dying medium…especially among the younger generations

 

[TsWade2]

No one here except maybe TWade is concerned with Wish anymore. Those of us who wanted to see it have seen it. The rest of you….well…whatever. But continuing to gloat about box office results at this point is getting extremely tired.

Exactly! I mean, I finally let go of the box office and hope it'll do well on DisneyPlus, but for those people who are gloating at Wish for failing at the the box office are total jerks in my opinion.
But, I'm starting to feel like this is the end of Disney if they're no longer box office hits anymore!

 

[BuddyThomas]

Exactly! I mean, I finally let go of the box office and hope it'll do well on DisneyPlus, but for those people who are gloating at Wish for failing at the the box office are total jerks in my opinion.
But, I'm starting to feel like this is the end of Disney if they're no longer box office hits anymore!

It’s not the end of Disney. They will be fine.

 

[TsWade2]

It’s not the end of Disney. They will be fine.

I hope so!

 

[TP2000]

No one here except maybe TWade is concerned with Wish anymore. Those of us who wanted to see it have seen it. The rest of you….well…whatever. But continuing to gloat about box office results at this point is getting extremely tired.

I realize the box office data may be unfortunate, but that doesn't make it go away in a thread about box office data.

Wish is still in 1,265 theaters in the USA, and it has not opened in several overseas markets as @Disney Irish reminded us yesterday. Yes, Wish was the 100th Anniversary movie that bombed horribly and lost over $200 Million at the box office, in a year of over a dozen flops and bombs from all of Disney's studios, but that doesn't make Wish go away yet. It's still showing up in daily box office stats as it claws out whatever it can get left from its 1,265 theaters.

And don't forget, Poor Things is going to start playing in more than 800 theaters and make big money once everyone realizes it got a Golden Globe nomination.

Not that its going to improve greatly, but Wish is releasing in several major international markets this weekend namely Brazil and South Korea. Both of which did extremely well for Elemental, with the latter bringing in ~$55M.

So won't change much as it still won't breakeven, but it could still bring in between $200-250M when all is said and done, around the same as Encanto.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Ahhh…I don’t have Roku…I stream through Apple TV…I do think as time goes on…more live TV will be available on streaming…cable is a dying medium…especially among the younger generations

We have cable, Hulu, Disney+, Prime, and Max. My tv bill is absolutely absurd but at least there is always something to watch when we’re not at the movies or a Broadway theatre, lol. And don’t get me started about those prices.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Off topic, but The Women is one of the greatest films of all time. And, yes, I do have it on DVD. The remake? Not so much.

Fun fact. Someone on here might be the agent for The Women and the Clare Boothe Luce Estate.

It is either:

Mickey Mouse

Donald Duck
or

Me!

 

[MrPromey]

Archie Bunker and George Jefferson are groundbreaking (and controversial) characters that went where no previous shows really went. At least not on that level. Masterfully written. They were not some clueless dads in the background as fillers while their kids ran circles around them. They changed TV. They didn’t ruin it. Comparing to 90s sitcom dads and how they were written is really off base.

Wow.

I certainly wasn't suggesting they ruined anything or that they were badly written.*

They were CONSTANTLY the butt of the humor, though just like the main male characters in the other shows I mentioned.

In fact, the show Make Room for Daddy, starring Danny Thomas was after the first three seasons renamed "The Danny Thomas Show" but 90% of the humor of that show was based on him being a famous and well off guy respected by everyone... except those closest to him.

He was clearly the star but it doesn't change the fact he was also the character getting run over left and right.

Same with "The Cosby Show". Controversies about Bill Cosby aside, he was a famous comedian, he was the star, he was why most people watched and he was the character that got put in his place far more than any other... I didn't bring it up earlier because it falls in the 80's era that Tony was alluding to but I don't think they ruined anything with how he was written either - still, like in all the other examples, he was frequently the clown.

*Shows like that somehow managed to have a bite that would have people clutching their pearls left and right today which is funny considering that for the time, in a much more conservative version of our country, you would have expected their target audience to really hate them and yet they somehow managed to thread that needle that eludes so many studios today. Shout out also to the recently late Tom Smothers, too, here. The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour was way before my parents even knew each other but watching some of that old stuff, I find it remarkable that was on mainstream broadcast TV.

 

[Willmark]

Because it’s still out of character, he never gave up on Darth Vader, never gave up on Han, never gave up on Leah, he never gave up on anyone. That was Luke’s main character trait, he ALWAYS saw the good and fought for the redemption of people.

In the new movies he was going to murder a sleeping child, then became a recluse, then wouldn’t lift a finger to help anyone, and then finally only redeemed himself in the movie that was trying to undo the previous movies for how poorly they were received.

The redemption was good but it never should have been necessary because everything in the movie before it was so out of character.

It's part and parcel for the idea that Episode VIII is some misunderstood masterpiece because it "subverts expectations" or put another way unpredictable for the sake of it. (Note: not saying anyone here has said that.)

Luke at the end of RoJ? Nahhh lets go this route! And the funny part the idiotic direction of Luke in that "movie?" might not even be in my top 10 objections to that monstrosity; there are far bigger problems that make little to no sense.

There is also the idea of Rey's parentage. Apparently Rian was aiming for a "No, I am your father moment" which fell as flat as the Emperor down the shaft in RoJ (only to be brought back again). Subverting expectations rears its ugly head again.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I realize the box office data may be unfortunate, but that doesn't make it go away in a thread about box office data.

Wish is still in 1,265 theaters in the USA, and it has not opened in several overseas markets as @Disney Irish reminded us yesterday. Yes, Wish was the 100th Anniversary movie that bombed horribly and lost over $200 Million at the box office, in a year of over a dozen flops and bombs from all of Disney's studios, but that doesn't make Wish go away yet. It's still showing up in daily box office stats as it claws out whatever it can get left from its 1,265 theaters.

And don't forget, Poor Things is going to start playing in more than 800 theaters and make big money once everyone realizes it got a Golden Globe nomination.

The Golden Globes are on Sunday night. Poor Things is widely expected to clean up in multiple categories. Then come the Oscar nominations. It is expected to pick up plenty. Box office will increase. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. You are allowed to be wrong. Again.

 

[CinematicFusion]

It's funny because that was done intentionally. Rian has said that his goal in filmmaking is a 50/50 split. Half the audience loves what he did and other half hates what he did. He says that is much more interesting.

The difference with the obi-wan comparison of going into hiding isn't really justified. Obi-wan went into hiding to protect Luke and wait for the right time to continue the fight. If they echoed that same thing with Luke, no one has a problem. If Luke's on that island because of some reason that turns the tides against the first order. Great! And while he's there he can discover a better path forward for the Jedi. Not, oh well, I give up. Knowing full well that him throwing in the towel means almost a for sure loss to the resistance.

Unless you disagree that Luke was handled poorly. Then you're just wrong. Lol

Yes, Rain Johnson expressed a desire to make films that provoke strong and divided reactions from the audience. In an interview around 2004, he stated that he finds it more exciting when a film elicits extreme reactions, with some people being very excited about it and others considering it the worst movie they’ve ever seen. He mentioned that having such polarized views is a mark of the type of movie he wants to make. This approach was evident in his creation of “Star Wars: The Last Jedi,” which indeed sparked a lot of discussion and divided the fan base.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Wow.

I certainly wasn't suggesting they ruined anything or that they were badly written.

They were CONSTANTLY the butt of the humor, though just like the main male characters in the other shows I mentioned.

In fact, the show Make Room for Daddy, starring Danny Thomas was after the first three seasons renamed "The Danny Thomas Show" but 90% of the humor of that show was based on him being a famous and well off guy respected by everyone... except those closest to him.

He was clearly the star but it doesn't change the fact he was also the character getting run over left and right.

Same with "The Cosby Show". Controversies about Bill Cosby aside, he was a famous comedian, he was the star, he was why most people watched and he was the character that got put in his place far more than any other... I didn't bring it up earlier because it falls in the 80's era that Tony was alluding to but I don't think they ruined anything with how he was written either - still, like in all the other examples, he was frequently the clown.

I actually disagree about Cosby, but you're right about everything else.

I'd add Darren on Bewitched - Dagwood in the comic Blondie and its spin offs in other media - Dick van , (a bit debatable, but the opening credits set the tone) - Herman Munster

 

[MrPromey]

I actually disagree about Cosby, but you're right about everything else.

I'd add Darren on Bewitched - Dagwood in the comic Blondie and its spin offs in other media - Dick van , (a bit debatable, but the opening credits set the tone) - Herman Munster

Good examples!

Not to start a low-stakes fight or anything but what part of the Cosby thing do you disagree with?

The older son certainly got his share of dumping on but I still feel like it was mostly Cosby being painted into corners even while being the one who mostly had the opinions about everyone and everything else.

I was pretty young when it was on and haven't watched it since it was on prime time so my memory may be off.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It's part and parcel for the idea that Episode VIII is some misunderstood masterpiece because it "subverts expectations" or put another way unpredictable for the sake of it. (Note: not saying anyone here has said that.)

Luke at the end of RoJ? Nahhh lets go this route! And the funny part the idiotic direction of Luke in that "movie?" might not even be in my top 10 objections to that monstrosity; there are far bigger problems that make little to no sense.

There is also the idea of Rey's parentage. Apparently Rian was aiming for a "No, I am your father moment" which fell as flat as the Emperor down the shaft in RoJ (only to be brought back again). Subverting expectations rears its ugly head again.

You don't seem to have understood the movie very well.

It's not about "subverting expectations" (RLM got this one wrong), its about characters reckoning with the myths of the past and how to move forward. Luke is trapped is his own mythologizing and, when he doesn't live up to it, is shattered and unable to move forward, dismissing the good and the bad of the Jedi order. By the end he's made his peace with himself and is ready to forge something new from the flawed Jedi teachings. Finn and Rey both expect the myths of the past to repeat - that Del Toro will be a good-hearted rogue like Han and that Kylo will see the light like Vader - and both have to find new paths when they discover how wrong they are. On the other extreme, Kylo wants to shatter the past completely, destroy it, and move on without any sense of it, and it leaves him totally isolated and directionless. Ultimately, all the healthy characters learn they must acknowledge and learn from the past but not expect it to define the future, forging a new path.

This theme is also a metacommentary - Star Wars can't simply be the original trilogy over and over again (what TFA was and what Abrams tried to set up), it has to honor that legacy while building something new. All the stupid little "puzzle boxes" Abrams set up (he always does this and never knows where they're leading, which is why his shows have such awful endings) needed to be discarded.

The issue of Rey's parentage was ABRAMS, not Johnson, setting up a stupid "I am your father" moment. Johnson, very intelligently, didn't copy the OT - instead he made the incredibly important point that the Force isn't some divine right of kings, handed down in "special" families, its something that anyone can access. Rey isn't a good Jedi because she's a Palpatine or a Skywalker, its because she's Rey. This is the whole point of the final shot of the stable boy.