Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Casper Gutman]

Your comment oversimplifies Luke Skywalker’s character arc in “The Last Jedi.” While it’s true that Luke never completed his training and his failure with Ben Solo aligns with this, the film presents a more complex picture. Fans have noted that his decision to isolate himself and initially refuse to help the Resistance contradicts his previously established character traits of hope, courage, and commitment to helping others. Additionally, while echoing Obi-Wan’s hermitage, Luke’s portrayal as disillusioned and broken was a stark contrast to the hopeful and proactive figure seen in the original trilogy.

This oversimplification of Luke Skywalker’s character in “The Last Jedi” contributes to the film’s divisiveness. Luke’s isolation and refusal to help the Resistance starkly contrast his established traits of hope and courage. This portrayal, differing from the proactive and hopeful figure in the original trilogy, has split the fan base, with some appreciating the complexity and others feeling it betrays the essence of Luke’s character.

You’re offering an incredibly simplified, one-dimensional version of Luke. It’s what I mean when I say the angry fans are married to the Luke they made up as children who weren’t very good at reading films, not the one actually in the films - the one who disobeyed the Jedi repeatedly, tried to kill himself when he learned the truth about Vader (“hope”), and was often dangerously cocky.

I love the idea that “loyalty” would be uncomplicated in this situation - “Hi Han and Leia! I accidentally turned your only child into a mass murderer when I momentarily thought about killing him because I saw my genocidal father in him. Now I’m joining you two so we can kill him for real! I’m very loyal!”

 

[CinematicFusion]

Wait, you don’t think those important? Mantis and the tree spanned years of Avengers and then ran on for decades in other books. It was foundational to the entire character of Mantis. Carol Danvers was Gloria Steinem in her first solo book. Both are older stories than Bucky as Cap and very arguably more significant. Why is one storyline sacred and the others aren’t?

Such is the tapestry of life – each of us weaves our own opinions, as varied and unique as the threads in a richly woven fabric.

 

[CinematicFusion]

You’re offering an incredibly simplified, one-dimensional version of Luke. It’s what I mean when I say the angry fans are married to the Luke they made up as children who weren’t very good at reading films, not the one actually in the films - the one who disobeyed the Jedi repeatedly, tried to kill himself when he learned the truth about Vader (“hope”), and was often dangerously cocky.

I love the idea that “loyalty” would be uncomplicated in this situation - “Hi Han and Leia! I accidentally turned your only child into a mass murderer when I momentarily thought about killing him because I saw my genocidal father in him. Now I’m joining you two so we kill him for real! I’m very loyal!”

At the close of “Return of the Jedi,” fans perceived Luke Skywalker’s narrative as an opening chapter to greater heroism and wisdom. However, “The Last Jedi” took an unexpected path, presenting Luke as a hermit, detached from his legacy and loved ones. This portrayal, in stark contrast to the optimistic hero we once knew, has deeply divided the fan base.
It’s important to respect those who feel let down by this portrayal, just as we respect those who enjoyed the film’s direction. Understanding and acknowledging these differing viewpoints is vital in the discourse around this divisive film.

 

[Casper Gutman]

At the close of “Return of the Jedi,” fans perceived Luke Skywalker’s narrative as an opening chapter to greater heroism and wisdom. However, “The Last Jedi” took an unexpected path, presenting Luke as a hermit, detached from his legacy and loved ones. This portrayal, in stark contrast to the optimistic hero we once knew, has deeply divided the fan base.
It’s important to respect those who feel let down by this portrayal, just as we respect those who enjoyed the film’s direction. Understanding and acknowledging these differing viewpoints is vital in the discourse around this divisive film.

The “flawless hero Luke” fans made up didn’t reflect the text of the original trilogy and would have been utterly boring in any new film. Stories require flawed characters who develop.

 

[TalkingHead]

Bill Mechanic Argues Against Paramount Global Becoming The Second Fabled Hollywood Studio Stripped Down & Sold For Parts: Guest Column

Don’t strip down Paramount Global like Fox was done by Disney, former Paramount, Disney and Fox leader Bill Mechanic argues in a guest column for Deadline.

deadline.com

Corporatized content, stale franchises, and streaming disruption. Might as well call it the Iger way of running things.

 

[TP2000]

Off topic, but The Women is one of the greatest films of all time. And, yes, I do have it on DVD. The remake? Not so much.

My gosh, yes. I have the BluRay and just watched it again one evening last week with my sister, which is why the quote was top of mind when a bottle of gin was mentioned here. My sister and I howled the whole evening. The entire cast is brilliant.

I never saw the new one. I was intrigued by it at first, but I took one look at the trailer and said "Nope".

I have a pretty good Nope Sensor, which is why I haven't seen any of Disney's latest releases.

 

[CinematicFusion]

The “flawless hero Luke” fans made up didn’t reflect the text of the original trilogy and would have been utterly boring in any new film. Stories require flawed characters who develop.

Luke Skywalker in the original trilogy was indeed never flawless; his appeal lay in his humanity and growth. His journey from farm boy to Jedi Master, struggling against and ultimately redeeming Darth Vader, exemplifies the classic hero’s journey. A continued arc in “The Last Jedi,” showing him grappling with the complexities of his relationship with Vader and striving to save Ben Solo, would have offered a rich narrative, full of conflict and growth. Instead, presenting a Luke who abandons his friends and the Force deviates sharply from this trajectory, leaving fans feeling that his character’s potential was unfulfilled. This isn’t about craving a flawless hero, but rather a continuation of the complex, yet hopeful, journey that made Luke an iconic character.

 

[Ghost93]

​

Star Wars' Director Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy Says It's About Time a Woman Shaped a Star Wars Film​

'Star Wars' Director's Comment About Men Sparks Calls to Boycott​

Chinoy is asked during a Women in the World Foundation panel, "What is the balance of activating a force for change, but also trying to permeate that patriarchy, that power structure, and is that a part of the calculation of your art as well and what's been the reaction to that?"

Chinoy replies, "Oh, absolutely. I like to make men uncomfortable. I enjoy making men uncomfortable ...

Well that was just stupid from a PR standpoint. I think if you want to talk about how your movie is trying to "permeate the patriarchy" you do so AFTER the film has been released so that people don't form pre-exisitng ideas and political talking points about it.

 

[CinematicFusion]

I don’t disagree. My point has much less to do with how fans feel about individual cases than with the belief that straight white men are being sidelined. The first is a matter of personal opinion; the second is something that can be debated using data of the type I tried to provide several posts ago.

I see where you’re coming from with the data about media representation. But from my observations, the issue for some fans feels more personal. When classic characters we’ve grown up with get drastically changed, it can leave fans feeling like they’re on the sidelines. It’s this deep connection to these characters. Their changes kind of touch on something bigger about how we see representation in media. It’s complex and maybe goes beyond just data.
Just an observation.

 

[DKampy]

We also have cable and Netflix. I added Amazon mainly for the free shipping and some of their content. We also watch our DVD's a lot. It's not easy to find someone on here who has cable and some streaming, like us

Do you still watch cable all that much… we rarely find anything interesting at all to watch on cable anymore… we do watch an abundance of streaming(Max, Prime, Apple +, Disney +, Hulu)I have been debating cutting the cord… but their are still some live events I look forward to… The Academy Awards (yes I am one who still watches) are one of things I still look forward to most each year

 

[MrPromey]

Btw cassettes are doing nicely these days.

That one's a head-scratcher for me.

I know it's true. I've seen them for new releases from some prominent artists but I don't get why.

Vinyl I can understand. You can take care of those and make them last, the covers lend themselves to display but cassettes have so many points of physical and mechanical failure and their packaging is not really designed to be attractive in that sense and their quality, while nowhere near eight-track is anything but archival, either.

I really don't get it.

Do you have any insights on why they've become more popular?

 

[Phroobar]

Do you still watch cable all that much… we rarely find anything interesting at all to watch on cable anymore… we do watch an abundance of streaming(Max, Prime, Apple +, Disney +, Hulu)I have been debating cutting the cord… but their are still some live events I look forward to… The Academy Awards (yes I am one who still watches) are one of things I still look forward to most each year

Even live events can be seen without cable. There are Roku live local channels. I have an antenna setup to the Roku's Tablo DVR for watch Svengoolie on MeTV. I can record the Academy Awards and the Rose parade without cable.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Btw cassettes are doing nicely these days.

I lived through vinyl, 8-track, cassettes, CDs and now files on my iPod (yes I said iPod) There is nothing better for me than digital audio files. No cleaning records, no pops and ticks, no worn out 8-Tracks or cassettes getting tangled inside of the players, players no working in the heat or cold, no storing vinyl, 8-tracks or cassettes.

I love digital audio files.

 

[MrPromey]

...

As mentioned, there are an awful lot of films that have never, or will never, make it onto streaming. While there are exceptions, most streamers act as if most films or TV shows made before the 80s may as well have never existed. What is offered on streamers is the illusion of choice, the illusion of being like a virtual video store, but curated to a selection biased to corporate ownership and the good ol' algorithm. And the library options only appear to be shrinking-it's well documented that Netflix, at the very least, has FAR fewer titles available now than it did in the past. And some corporations just do dumb things with their content (i.e. with Max-what's the point of getting people to sign up for your service with DC or Harry Potter movies only for them to randomly disappear for months at a time without explanation?). Buying a physical copy of a movie provides some level of insurance from all of that.

If people are happy with streaming, I have no problem with that, but I do think that most people were short-sighted in throwing away their DVDs the minute they got Netflix without considering the more negative aspects of streaming that now seem to be coming into sharper focus.

Another thing worth mentioning is commercials.

My son was born into the era of no-commercial streaming.

Now, all of the major players are making it increasingly expensive to avoid them, Amazon being the latest to announce them coming later this month.

Heck, D+ is now more expensive WITH commercials and pulled content than it was just a little while ago without.

With a DVD or bluray, you don't have to worry about doing a quick rewind to see something you missed only to be hit with having to watch commercials again because something triggered a reset with that despite you only going back 30 seconds or so.

As for D+, he mostly watches the same stuff over and over again. I was going to cancel back in November when the last discounted deal ran out since we already own most of what he watches on DVD and Bluray, anyway. (along with the promise of a Spectrum deal I'll be stuck with due to an association contract with them)

They got me back paying a ridiculously low add-on price to Hulu that itself, I'm only paying $1 a month for but all that's really doing is pushing the decision out another year while barely making anything off me in the meantime.

 

[MrPromey]

I think all of entertainment did that, starting in the late 80s/early 90s when sitcom Dads became idiots and stayed that way.

...

The sitcom Dads (and husband) trope is older than you're remembering.

The husband/dad who may or may not be professionally successful but who is the clown or butt of most jokes and unable to find respect in his own household in a sitcom has been around almost from the start.











... At least in American Television, anyway.

 

[Andrew C]

The sitcom Dads (and husband) trope is older than you're remembering.

The husband/dad who may or may not be professionally successful but who is the clown or butt of most jokes in a family sitcom has been around almost from the start.











... At least in American Television, anyway.

I would definitely not put the first two in that category.

 

[Tha Realest]

I agree that not having the big three together in the first film was a colossal mistake. The sequel trilogy was badly overseen and the first film painted the series into a corner, but that’s the fault of Iger and Abrams, not Johnson.

You're omitting a pretty significant player in this process (courtesy of Iger’s bio):

 

[Casper Gutman]

I would definitely not put the first two in that category.

Perhaps I misunderstand- you don’t think Archie Bunker is a buffoon?

 

[MrPromey]

I would definitely not put the first two in that category.

Really?

George Jefferson was constantly being put in his place by their housekeeper or "managed" and apologized for by his wife and Archie Bunker was depicted as still ultimately lovable but a bigot and almost always* in the wrong.



*All In the Family was a crazily progressive show for its time. Looking back, it's remarkable that they not only were able to get it made but that it was so beloved.

 

[Andrew C]

Perhaps I misunderstand- you don’t think Archie Bunker is a buffoon?

Archie Bunker and George Jefferson are groundbreaking (and controversial) characters that went where no previous shows really went. At least not on that level. Masterfully written. They were not some clueless dads in the background as fillers while their kids ran circles around them. They changed TV. They didn’t ruin it. Comparing to 90s sitcom dads and how they were written is really off base.