Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[CinematicFusion]

Given how frequently the fans in question frame their discontent in terms of what they perceive as larger issues of male representation in cinema, I can’t help but feel that their problem has less to do with Luke’s character arc (which strikes me as believable) than with broader cultural and ideological anxieties.

I understand your perspective on the reaction to Luke Skywalker’s character in ‘The Last Jedi.’ However, I believe the discontent from many fans stems from a deep connection to the character’s original portrayal, rather than broader cultural or ideological issues. Fans have invested emotionally in Luke’s journey for decades, and the significant shift in his character arc in the film was a stark contrast to the hero they had come to admire. While societal changes might influence some reactions, they do not fully account for the genuine disappointment felt by fans over these specific character changes.

 

[Casper Gutman]

My issue with Luke was we as fans waiting decades to see our heroes on the big screen again. We wanted to see them together (Luke, Han, etc..) kicking a$s. Instead they were all separated and in different stages of depression.

I agree that not having the big three together in the first film was a colossal mistake. The sequel trilogy was badly overseen and the first film painted the series into a corner, but that’s the fault of Iger and Abrams, not Johnson.

A lot of fans didn’t connect with the actual character of Luke, they connected with their childhood emotional memory of Luke. Nothing in the sequels contradicts what we know of him. A human moment of doubt drives him to have a terrible thought based on his past experience - he takes absolutely no action on this thought, and it’s very much in keeping with his impetuosity. He fails to redeem Kylo, which shatters the myths about himself which he has bought into (dealing with myths of the past being the theme of the film). He then rejects the Jedi, something he’s done before and which the Jedi we’ve seen over seven films largely deserve. When we meet him, he’s being characteristically stubborn. He is set up at the films end to continue trying to redeem Kylo and to join Rey in building a new, more honest successor to the broken Jedi Order, but screaming fans and cowardly filmmakers killed this.

Pretending fans expected Bucky to become Cap after all the massive changes in the MCU (which very successfully captures the spirit, character, and tone of the comics but not the storylines) was delusional. Bucky was Cap for about three years spinning out of Civil War in the comics. Civil War in the MCU was completely different and ended years ago with Cap alive! This is all an excuse for certain folks being upset an African-American is Cap.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Don't think anyone is saying that...not here at least.

Of course they are - that’s been a constant undercurrent to discussion of TLM. It’s just hidden a bit (often very poorly) with wink wink nudge nudge insinuation.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Except while Bucky became Cap first in the comics, Sam did also become Cap in the comics too. So it’s not like the MCU actually diverged from the comics, they just didn't give Bucky the shield first before it went to Sam. The MCU from day one skipped around the comics not going in any order, so this point is not really relevant as it follows the comics.

It’s true that both Bucky and Sam have held the mantle of Captain America in the comics. However, as of now, Bucky has not become Captain America in the Disney films and shows. Instead, he’s leading the Thunderbolts in an upcoming MCU film. This suggests a different role for Bucky, but it’s unlikely he will become Captain America, as Marvel Studios is establishing Sam Wilson as the next Captain America. This divergence from some comic storylines reflects the unique direction of the MCU, and while it disappoints many fans of the comics, it’s part of the evolving narrative of these characters.

 

[Jedijax719]

Of course they are - that’s been a constant undercurrent to discussion of TLM. It’s just hidden a bit (often very poorly) with wink wink nudge nudge insinuation.

Gee, are you saying that people can't let TLM go and have to constantly use TLM as fuel for argument against diversity? Imagine that!

 

[LittleBuford]

I understand your perspective on the reaction to Luke Skywalker’s character in ‘The Last Jedi.’ However, I believe the discontent from many fans stems from a deep connection to the character’s original portrayal, rather than broader cultural or ideological issues. Fans have invested emotionally in Luke’s journey for decades, and the significant shift in his character arc in the film was a stark contrast to the hero they had come to admire. While societal changes might influence some reactions, they do not fully account for the genuine disappointment felt by fans over these specific character changes.

The reason I struggle to understand the disappointment is that Luke's arc seems tonally very consistent with that of other Star Wars characters. Anakin goes from being a brave and loyal hero to the villainous Darth Vader before ultimately redeeming himself. And even Yoda is introduced as a grumpy exile who is initially reluctant to instruct Luke, about whom he says, "Much anger in him, like his father." It's not like the original trilogy leads us to believe that the good guys are faultless or incapable of going through complex journeys.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It’s true that both Bucky and Sam have held the mantle of Captain America in the comics. However, as of now, Bucky has not become Captain America in the Disney films and shows. Instead, he’s leading the Thunderbolts in an upcoming MCU film. This suggests a different role for Bucky, but it’s unlikely he will become Captain America, as Marvel Studios is establishing Sam Wilson as the next Captain America. This divergence from some comic storylines reflects the unique direction of the MCU, and while it disappoints many fans of the comics, it’s part of the evolving narrative of these characters.

Where was the outrage that Cap never became Nomad? Or that Mantis never married a tree? Or that the president in the MCU didn’t go the way of Nixon in the comics? Were they really upset that we never got to see the alternative universe where Rockefeller beat Carter in 1976 and America became fascist? Were they upset Captain Marvel was never a feminist magazine editor modeled directly on Gloria Steinem? Or that Hank Pym never hit his wife?

 

[Andrew C]

Of course they are - that’s been a constant undercurrent to discussion of TLM. It’s just hidden a bit (often very poorly) with wink wink nudge nudge insinuation.

People think Ariel should have been white and male? you’re confused per usual.

 

[Disney Irish]

It’s true that both Bucky and Sam have held the mantle of Captain America in the comics. However, as of now, Bucky has not become Captain America in the Disney films and shows. Instead, he’s leading the Thunderbolts in an upcoming MCU film. This suggests a different role for Bucky, but it’s unlikely he will become Captain America, as Marvel Studios is establishing Sam Wilson as the next Captain America. This divergence from some comic storylines reflects the unique direction of the MCU, and while it disappoints many fans of the comics, it’s part of the evolving narrative of these characters.

I appreciate your opinion but I disagree that its disappointed "many" fans. As mentioned Bucky taking up the Cap mantle only predates the MCU by like 1 year, so its not like there was a huge fan base behind it.

The entire MCU Civil War storyline while using bits and pieces from the comics was different, as was mentioned in the comics Cap dies after Civil War. But in the MCU he remains alive because they wanted to have him continue on into Endgame. The reason Bucky took up the mantle in the comics was because Cap dies, not because Cap hands it over to him. So of course the whole storyline of who takes up the mantle after Steve in the MCU is going to change. And in that respect they followed the comics more closely because in the comics Steve hands over the shield to Sam because of Steve's aging, which is more or less how the story played out in the MCU just slightly different.

Trust me I understand the whole thing about Bucky, as I posted on the forums at the time that I thought Bucky would take up the shield post-Endgame. But that isn't how it played out, and I'm not upset by it, and outside of internet forums I doubt many are really upset by it either. I think more they rather have had Evans remain as Cap rather than Steve handing the shield to anyone else. But that is a different conversation, and one that is likely soon to be played out as the rumors of Evans return keep getting stronger.

 

[CinematicFusion]

I appreciate your opinion but I disagree that its disappointed "many" fans. As mentioned Bucky taking up the Cap mantle only predates the MCU by like 1 year, so its not like there was a huge fan base behind it.

The entire MCU Civil War storyline while using bits and pieces from the comics was different, as was mentioned in the comics Cap dies after Civil War. But in the MCU he remains alive because they wanted to have him continue on into Endgame. The reason Bucky took up the mantle in the comics was because Cap dies, not because Cap hands it over to him. So of course the whole storyline of who takes up the mantle after Steve in the MCU is going to change. And in that respect they followed the comics more closely because in the comics Steve hands over the shield to Sam because of Steve's aging, which is more or less how the story played out in the MCU just slightly different.

Trust me I understand the whole thing about Bucky, as I posted on the forums at the time that I thought Bucky would take up the shield post-Endgame. But that isn't how it played out, and I'm not upset by it, and outside of internet forums I doubt many are really upset by it either. I think more they rather have had Evans remain as Cap rather than Steve handing the shield to anyone else. But that is a different conversation, and one that is likely soon to be played out as the rumors of Evans return keep getting stronger.

I respect your opinion

 

[CinematicFusion]

The reason I struggle to understand the disappointment is that Luke's arc seems tonally very consistent with that of other Star Wars characters. Anakin goes from being a brave and loyal hero to the villainous Darth Vader before ultimately redeeming himself. And even Yoda is introduced as a grumpy exile who is initially reluctant to instruct Luke, about whom he says, "Much anger in him, like his father." It's not like the original trilogy leads us to believe that the good guys are faultless or incapable of going through complex journeys.

It’s understandable if you find it difficult to grasp why many still feel disappointed with “The Last Jedi,” eight years later. Similarly, those who didn’t enjoy it might struggle to comprehend its appeal to others. This is precisely what makes the film so polarizing. I’m not here to sway anyone’s views; I’ve simply expressed my own, as everyone is entitled to their perspective on such a contentious movie.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Few love Star Wars (the real three episodes) more than I. I had no problem with Luke Skywalker's arc.

He never finished his training with Yoda, so screwing up with Ben Solo was not a surprise. Hiding as an old man echoed the great Obi Wan Kenobi. These things are obvious. It's not a princess story with a childish happy ending. He is not diminished or disrespected in any way.

 

[LittleBuford]

It’s understandable if you find it difficult to grasp why many still feel disappointed with “The Last Jedi,” eight years later. Similarly, those who didn’t enjoy it might struggle to comprehend its appeal to others. This is precisely what makes the film so polarizing. I’m not here to sway anyone’s views; I’ve simply expressed my own, as everyone is entitled to their perspective on such a contentious movie.

I don’t disagree. My point has much less to do with how fans feel about individual cases than with the belief that straight white men are being sidelined. The first is a matter of personal opinion; the second is something that can be debated using data of the type I tried to provide several posts ago.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

1) Don't watch on iPads. Watch on TVs in our home.
2) Don't subscribe to D+. Why bother when I own most of the Disney content I want? We do subscribe to Netflix and have cable.
3) Haven't needed to polish/buff. We don't watch any individual one too frequently
4) No big folio. Each is kept in its original case on shelves.
5) DVD players in the living room and one in my sewing room. They're cheap, less than $30 now so easy to have more than one.

We also have cable and Netflix. I added Amazon mainly for the free shipping and some of their content. We also watch our DVD's a lot. It's not easy to find someone on here who has cable and some streaming, like us

 

[Disney Irish]

It's not easy to find someone on here who has cable and some streaming, like us

Count me as one.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Where was the outrage that Cap never became Nomad? Or that Mantis never married a tree? Or that the president in the MCU didn’t go the way of Nixon in the comics? Were they really upset that we never got to see the alternative universe where Rockefeller beat Carter in 1976 and America became fascist? Were they upset Captain Marvel was never a feminist magazine editor modeled directly on Gloria Steinem? Or that Hank Pym never hit his wife?

Captain America becoming Nomad in the comics is a significant storyline. For those who don’t know, It symbolizes a period where Steve Rogers, disillusioned with the government, abandons his Captain America identity to become Nomad.
Great storyline.

But Mantis marrying a tree or Captain Marvel’s alternate profession? Come on man.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Except its not like it was a long standing precedence that Bucky would become Cap in the comics, that storyline only predates the MCU by something like one year. And Sam became Cap only a couple years after Bucky in the comics. So again its not like this is some long standing thing that it must be Bucky to take up the shield.

Marvel has always been clear they weren't following the comics that closely, the MCU would skip around and make changes to the stories as they see fit.

But...but...they slighted a white guy! They don't mind shutting gay people out of everything for decades, but don't slight a white guy!

Bucky was Cap for about three years spinning out of Civil War in the comics. Civil War in the MCU was completely different and ended years ago with Cap alive! This is all an excuse for certain folks being upset an African-American is Cap.

So it could be said Bucky was "replaced" by Steve Rogers continuing as Cap, rather than by Sam. But that would leave no room for narrow outrage.

Count me as one.

Same. I have DirecTV and, somewhat begrudgingly: Netflix, Max, D+, Paramount+, Apple, Prime, probably something else. DVDs of favorites that I don't want to ever chance will not be streaming.

I would much rather have one central thing again where I don't have to click in and out of apps and browse for a freaking half hour.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Few love Star Wars (the real three episodes) more than I. I had no problem with Luke Skywalker's arc.

He never finished his training with Yoda, so screwing up with Ben Solo was not a surprise. Hiding as an old man echoed the great Obi Wan Kenobi. These things are obvious. It's not a princess story with a childish happy ending. He is not diminished or disrespected in any way.

Your comment oversimplifies Luke Skywalker’s character arc in “The Last Jedi.” While it’s true that Luke never completed his training and his failure with Ben Solo aligns with this, the film presents a more complex picture. Fans have noted that his decision to isolate himself and initially refuse to help the Resistance contradicts his previously established character traits of hope, courage, and commitment to helping others. Additionally, while echoing Obi-Wan’s hermitage, Luke’s portrayal as disillusioned and broken was a stark contrast to the hopeful and proactive figure seen in the original trilogy.

This oversimplification of Luke Skywalker’s character in “The Last Jedi” contributes to the film’s divisiveness. Luke’s isolation and refusal to help the Resistance starkly contrast his established traits of hope and courage. This portrayal, differing from the proactive and hopeful figure in the original trilogy, has split the fan base, with some appreciating the complexity and others feeling it betrays the essence of Luke’s character.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Captain America becoming Nomad in the comics is a significant storyline. For those who don’t know, It symbolizes a period where Steve Rogers, disillusioned with the government, abandons his Captain America identity to become Nomad.
Great storyline.

But Mantis marrying a tree or Captain Marvel’s alternate profession? Come on man.

Wait, you don’t think those important? Mantis and the tree spanned years of Avengers and then ran on for decades in other books. It was foundational to the entire character of Mantis. Carol Danvers was Gloria Steinem in her first solo book. Both are older stories than Bucky as Cap and very arguably more significant. Why is one storyline sacred and the others aren’t?

 

[Willmark]

It’s understandable if you find it difficult to grasp why many still feel disappointed with “The Last Jedi,” eight years later. Similarly, those who didn’t enjoy it might struggle to comprehend its appeal to others. This is precisely what makes the film so polarizing. I’m not here to sway anyone’s views; I’ve simply expressed my own, as everyone is entitled to their perspective on such a contentious movie.

“Fuel” is what made me go “yeah, no…”

Fuel…