Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[CinematicFusion]

I think all of entertainment did that, starting in the late 80s/early 90s when sitcom Dads became idiots and stayed that way.

If you’re in a minority, nothing feels like one extreme to the other. It feels like waiting a lifetime for crumbs - and then other people want to ruin it for us.

It’s not reasonable for those previously on a pedestal to feel slighted by that.

Tony, I hear your frustration and understand that for many years, minority groups felt underrepresented and overlooked in entertainment. It’s important that everyone feels seen and represented. My concern is about finding a balance where all groups, including those who were previously overrepresented, are portrayed in a varied and nuanced way. It’s not about taking anyone off a pedestal, but rather ensuring that the pedestal is big enough for everyone to stand on, without resorting to stereotypes or diminishing any group’s role. The goal should be inclusive representation that respects and acknowledges the diversity of audiences.

 

[Andrew C]

Oh, hell. Did I miss something?

Danica McKellar's birthday.

 

[Communicora]

You are off on this one if you think a studio is alright losing money. There is 0 chance you could find a major record label who would proudly tout the success of financing the #6 song on the charts for the year while losing money on it. You wouldn't find a movie studio doing that either.

A Grammy would be the better comparison and record labels would proudly mention it.

 

[Casper Gutman]

reducing straight white men to predominantly sidekicks and comic relief roles, or simply erasing them, the result is they‘re alienating part of their audience in their effort to expand it.

This didn’t happen. At all.

 

[LittleBuford]

This didn’t happen. At all.

Not limited to Disney, but some relevant data:

Study: Biggest Hollywood films still go mostly to white men

As Hollywood emerged from the pandemic, its biggest film productions dipped in diversity after years of incremental progress, according to a new study by UCLA researchers. Opportunities were notably greater for women and people of color on streaming platforms than in theatrically released films...

apnews.com

 

[Communicora]

It's in your icebox, Crystal, behind the cobwebs.

Off topic, but The Women is one of the greatest films of all time. And, yes, I do have it on DVD. The remake? Not so much.

 

[LittleBuford]

This didn’t happen. At all.

I think this (mis)perception is in large part due to a tendency on the part of those who feel it’s happening to focus on anything that supports their view to the exclusion of other evidence. Take Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, for instance. Those who insist that this installment completely destroys his character and undermines his status as a hero somehow ignore his pivotal, and highly heroic, act of self-sacrifice at the end of the film. And then there's this somewhat surreal exchange regarding the supposed disrespect shown to Indiana's relationship with Marion in Dial of Destiny:

SPOILERS: Indiana Jones 5: The Dial of Destiny

I feel like people forget how strong the first half of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull actually is. It’s really not until they get to the jungle that the movie falls apart. But the opening sequence, the car chase through the town, flying to Peru, it’s all good old fashioned Indiana Jones fun. Pure...

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[CinematicFusion]

I think this (mis)perception is in large part due to a tendency on the part of those who feel it’s happening to focus on anything that supports their view to the exclusion of other evidence. Take Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, for instance. Those who insist that this installment completely destroys his character and undermines his status as a hero somehow ignore his pivotal, and highly heroic, act of self-sacrifice at the end of the film. And then there's this somewhat surreal exchange regarding the supposed disrespect shown to Indiana's relationship with Marion in Dial of Destiny:

SPOILERS: Indiana Jones 5: The Dial of Destiny

I feel like people forget how strong the first half of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull actually is. It’s really not until they get to the jungle that the movie falls apart. But the opening sequence, the car chase through the town, flying to Peru, it’s all good old fashioned Indiana Jones fun. Pure...

forums.wdwmagic.com

Correct. The sentiment that Hollywood is reducing straight white men to sidekick or comic relief roles may stem from changes seen in iconic characters in franchises. For instance, in “Star Wars: The Last Jedi,” Luke Skywalker’s shift to a disillusioned hermit contradicts his original character’s heroism and loyalty to his friends and family. Similarly, in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Bucky Barnes not becoming Captain America, diverging from the comics, disappointed some fans. These examples reflect broader trends where traditional character arcs are altered, sometimes leading to alienation among long-term fans who are deeply connected to the original stories.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Correct. The sentiment that Hollywood is reducing straight white men to sidekick or comic relief roles may stem from changes seen in iconic characters in franchises. For instance, in “Star Wars: The Last Jedi,” Luke Skywalker’s shift to a disillusioned hermit contradicts his original character’s heroism and loyalty. Similarly, in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Bucky Barnes not becoming Captain America, diverging from the comics, disappointed some fans. These examples reflect broader trends where traditional character arcs are altered, sometimes leading to alienation among long-term fans who are deeply connected to the original stories.

Nothing about old Luke “contradicted” his heroism and loyalty. It gave him an interesting character arc consistent with what we knew about him (impetuous, stubborn, sometimes excessively self-confident) and what we’d seen of the Jedi for six films.

The Falcon became Captain America in the comics. The MCU has deviated from the comics in countless major ways that no one complains about, but here it follows the comics and, strangely, a lot of “fans” are very mad.

 

[Disney Irish]

Correct. The sentiment that Hollywood is reducing straight white men to sidekick or comic relief roles may stem from changes seen in iconic characters in franchises. For instance, in “Star Wars: The Last Jedi,” Luke Skywalker’s shift to a disillusioned hermit contradicts his original character’s heroism and loyalty. Similarly, in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Bucky Barnes not becoming Captain America, diverging from the comics, disappointed some fans. These examples reflect broader trends where traditional character arcs are altered, sometimes leading to alienation among long-term fans who are deeply connected to the original stories.

Except while Bucky became Cap first in the comics, Sam did also become Cap in the comics too. So its not like the MCU actually diverged from the comics, they just didn't give Bucky the shield first before it went to Sam. The MCU from day one skipped around the comics not going in any order, so this point is not really relevant as it follows the comics.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Nothing about old Luke “contradicted” his heroism and loyalty. It gave him an interesting character arc consistent with what we knew about him (impetuous, stubborn, sometimes excessively self-confident) and what we’d seen of the Jedi for six films.

The Falcon became Captain America in the comics. The MCU has deviated from the comics in countless major ways that no one complains about, but here it follows the comics and, strangely, a lot of “fans” are very mad.

Its always important to acknowledge different viewpoints. It’s true that in “The Last Jedi,” Luke Skywalker’s character takes a turn away from his friends and family, a point of contention for many fans. This shift was even acknowledged by Mark Hamill, who expressed his own concerns about this change in Luke’s character. While some view this as a complex and realistic development, others see it as a departure from Luke’s established heroism and loyalty.
In the case of the MCU and Captain America…Captain America is a major character in the Marvel Universe, and changes to such central figures tend to elicit strong reactions from fans. For long-time comic readers, Bucky Barnes assuming the role of Captain America was a significant and anticipated storyline. Deviating from this in the MCU, therefore, had a notable impact on these fans, highlighting the deep connection and expectations they have with the character’s journey as depicted in the comics.

 

[LittleBuford]

For instance, in “Star Wars: The Last Jedi,” Luke Skywalker’s shift to a disillusioned hermit contradicts his original character’s heroism and loyalty to his friends and family.

But the film ends by reaffirming those qualities in spectacular style. Somehow, that is never acknowledged by those who complain about his portrayal.

 

[CinematicFusion]

But the film ends by reaffirming those qualities in spectacular style. Somehow, that is never acknowledged by those who complain about his portrayal.

Fans’ dissatisfaction with Luke Skywalker’s portrayal in “The Last Jedi” persists because the significant changes to his character earlier in the movie overshadowed the final redemption. For many, the portrayal of Luke as a disillusioned recluse conflicted sharply with their long-held view of him as an optimistic hero, making it difficult to reconcile this with his final act, regardless of its significance. This underscores how deeply fans connect with characters and how resistant they can be to major changes in those characters’ arcs.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

But the film ends by reaffirming those qualities in spectacular style. Somehow, that is never acknowledged by those who complain about his portrayal.

Because it’s still out of character, he never gave up on Darth Vader, never gave up on Han, never gave up on Leah, he never gave up on anyone. That was Luke’s main character trait, he ALWAYS saw the good and fought for the redemption of people.

In the new movies he was going to murder a sleeping child, then became a recluse, then wouldn’t lift a finger to help anyone, and then finally only redeemed himself in the movie that was trying to undo the previous movies for how poorly they were received.

The redemption was good but it never should have been necessary because everything in the movie before it was so out of character.

 

[LittleBuford]

Fans’ dissatisfaction with Luke Skywalker’s portrayal in “The Last Jedi” persists because the significant changes to his character earlier in the movie overshadowed the final redemption. For many, the portrayal of Luke as a disillusioned recluse conflicted sharply with their long-held view of him as an optimistic hero, making it difficult to reconcile this with his final act, regardless of its significance. This underscores how deeply fans connect with characters and how resistant they can be to major changes in those characters’ arcs.

Given how frequently the fans in question frame their discontent in terms of what they perceive as larger issues of male representation in cinema, I can’t help but feel that their problem has less to do with Luke’s character arc (which strikes me as believable) than with broader cultural and ideological anxieties.

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

My issue with Luke was we as fans waiting decades to see our heroes on the big screen again. We wanted to see them together (Luke, Han, etc..) kicking a$s. Instead they were all separated and in different stages of depression.

 

[LittleBuford]

Because it’s still out of character, he never gave up on Darth Vader, never gave up on Han, never gave up on Leah, he never gave up on anyone. That was Luke’s main character trait, he ALWAYS saw the good and fought for the redemption of people.

In the new movies he was going to murder a sleeping child, then became a recluse, then wouldn’t lift a finger to help anyone, and then finally only redeemed himself in the movie that was trying to undo the previous movies for how poorly they were received.

The redemption was good but it never should have been necessary because everything in the movie before it was so out of character.

People are complex. Even St. Peter thrice denied Christ!

To me and my partner, Luke’s character arc seemed believable. Admittedly, I’m not a hardcore fan with any special attachment to the characters—I didn’t grow up watching the films—but he is. The Last Jedi is among his favourite installments.

 

[Disney Irish]

In the case of the MCU and Captain America…Captain America is a major character in the Marvel Universe, and changes to such central figures tend to elicit strong reactions from fans. For long-time comic readers, Bucky Barnes assuming the role of Captain America was a significant and anticipated storyline. Deviating from this in the MCU, therefore, had a notable impact on these fans, highlighting the deep connection and expectations they have with the character’s journey as depicted in the comics.

Except its not like it was a long standing precedence that Bucky would become Cap in the comics, that storyline only predates the MCU by something like one year. And Sam became Cap only a couple years after Bucky in the comics. So again its not like this is some long standing thing that it must be Bucky to take up the shield.

Marvel has always been clear they weren't following the comics that closely, the MCU would skip around and make changes to the stories as they see fit.

 

[Jedijax719]

With all the talk of diversity, particularly in the SW universe, think of the discussion at hand. People (some) say that they shouldn't "pander" but rather choose the right person instead. Who's to say that the right person isn't someone who isn't white and male? We had TLJ after all. How did that work out for everyone?

 

[Andrew C]

Who's to say that the right person isn't someone who isn't white and male?

Don't think anyone is saying that...not here at least.