DHS Soundstage 1 Renovation - Toy Storia Mania expansion

[Goofyernmost]

But you can't ride it without a park-to-park ticket.

The bigger question is why would anyone not get a hopper for Universal? There are worthy attractions and unworthy attractions in both parks. Unlike WDW where a park can be skipped and not really make much difference in a day or two trip, Universal does not have that happen. If nothing else, both parks, if not much bigger combined then Epcot, it does leave a gap if not covered. IoA has most of the scare you to death rides (with the exception of Rocket and Mummy) but still has a lot of family and milder attractions. It's like going MK and only going to Fantasyland and nothing else.

 

[BrerJon]

The bigger question is why would anyone not get a hopper for Universal? There are worthy attractions and unworthy attractions in both parks. Unlike WDW where a park can be skipped and not really make much difference in a day or two trip, Universal does not have that happen. If nothing else, both parks, if not much bigger combined then Epcot, it does leave a gap if not covered. IoA has most of the scare you to death rides (with the exception of Rocket and Mummy) but still has a lot of family and milder attractions. It's like going MK and only going to Fantasyland and nothing else.

Universal is definitely more expensive when you think of it in terms of always being a two-park ticket, but you get so much more bang for your buck, it's like buying toilet rolls or whatever at Costco - expensive upfront initial purchase, but a great deal in the long run.

You can say the same about Disney multi-day tickets, although you only get three or four days at Disney before your ticket becomes more expensive than a Universal 2-park annual pass.

 

[AndyMagic]

It is a solution to a real problem. Two underbuilt rides are having capacity increases. The issue is that both parks also need more rides. Say for example that you have a broken TV and a broken roof. This is a new TV. It's something that's needed, it's just not the most important thing that's needed.

Soarin' and Midway Mania would not be considered "underbuilt" by any reasonable theme park standard. They function just fine at Disneyland and have the capacity one would expect for the type of rides they are. They only seem underbuilt because both are STILL the "new" headliner attractions at the park. Fast pass doesn't help matters either but that is a can of worms that I won't open. Bottom line, these expansions are a reaction from management after they realized both parks weren't going to be getting any major additions in the near future. If you want to talk about underbuilt rides, let's talk about Frozen. THAT is a classic example of a ride being built without the capacity to meet the clear, and present demand.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Soarin' and Midway Mania would not be considered "underbuilt" by any reasonable theme park standard. They function just fine at Disneyland and have the capacity one would expect for the type of rides they are. They only seem underbuilt because both are STILL the "new" headliner attractions at the park. Fast pass doesn't help matters either but that is a can of worms that I won't open. Bottom line, these expansions are a reaction from management after they realized both parks weren't going to be getting any major additions in the near future. If you want to talk about underbuilt rides, let's talk about Frozen. THAT is a classic example of a ride being built without the capacity to meet the clear, and present demand.

They are absolutely underbuilt in the parks that they are in. Simply put, any D or E-ticket in WDW should have at least 1600 GPH capacity. Anything less than that creates bottlenecks. Adding more attractions to each park will increase the attendance. This is just as likely to increase demand for these two attractions rather than decrease it.

Stop comparing Disneyland to Disney World, the crowds are different in both number of guests and behavior.

Both parks need new attractions, but it doesn't mean that capacity increases at the most popular attractions already in those parks wouldn't help.

 

[vinnya1726]

Can someone exam why it's taking 2 years to install a track and video screens that have already been imaginered. Is only one person installing it?

Disney works only with Union workers and they take their sweet time. Universal does not. It is that simple.

 

[ford91exploder]

Disney works only with Union workers and they take their sweet time. Universal does not. It is that simple.

Union workers work just as fast if not faster than non-union crews, The difference is UNI pays for a work crew large enough to complete the work in a short time frame, Disney does not. In the end it comes down to TWDC's unwillingness to invest in Orlando at historic norms.

 

[marni1971]

Disneyworld is also much larger and harder to maintain and manage than Universal Orlando.

....said management as they raise the ticket prices again...

 

[SirLink]

It is a solution to a real problem. Two underbuilt rides are having capacity increases. The issue is that both parks also need more rides. Say for example that you have a broken TV and a broken roof. This is a new TV. It's something that's needed, it's just not the most important thing that's needed.

That is the worst analogy ever. Choice of repairing a broken TV and a broken roof, the broken roof should always be repaired. The broken TV you throw out and buy a new TV that does the job. Constantly investing in the same experience rather than investing in new must-have ride technology is frustrating if you popped 4 more D-tickets in DHS or Epcot it would fix the over-demand for the two D-tickets getting expanded.

 

[RSoxNo1]

That is the worst analogy ever. Choice of repairing a broken TV and a broken roof, the broken roof should always be repaired. The broken TV you throw out and buy a new TV that does the job. Constantly investing in the same experience rather than investing in new must-have ride technology is frustrating if you popped 4 more D-tickets in DHS or Epcot it would fix the over-demand for the two D-tickets getting expanded.

How is that a bad analogy? You're only argument at the order that this is taking place. You still need to replace the TV, the TV is a problem that can be fixed for much less than a roof. When you repair the broken roof you're not getting a new exciting roof that no one has ever seen before. The comparison is that both are needed, just one is more important than the other.

The capacity issues at Toy Story and Soarin' are just that: issues. They are addressing them and that is a good thing. What isn't a good thing is that they haven't addressed the need for new attractions. DHS should have had at least 2 more additional rides open since Toy Story Mania, and Epcot should have seen another overhaul to a Future World pavilion since The Land pavilion. That hasn't happened and that should be criticized. The only criticism that I think is fair on the 3rd track and 3rd theater additions is that it didn't happen 5 years ago.

@lentesta... How have wait times at Toy Story Mania been affected before and after Cars Land?

 

[thehowiet]

@lentesta... How have wait times at Toy Story Mania been affected before and after Cars Land?

With the number of attractions that already existed at DCA prior to Cars Land, I'm guessing Toy Story waits weren't affected much at all, if any. That's what happens when you actually have more than 5 rides in a park though.

 

[RSoxNo1]

With the number of attractions that already existed at DCA prior to Cars Land, I'm guessing Toy Story waits weren't affected much at all, if any. That's what happens when you actually have more than 5 rides in a park though.

I just spot checked some dates in April and July for 2011, 2013, 2014 with all days being on Saturdays and Wednesdays. Wait times dropped on average of about 7 minutes. That's not entirely surprising, but increasing the capacity would likely decrease it substantially more. The other factor however is that Soarin' is expected to debut the third theater with a new film, potentially changing the demand.

It's not fair to say that wait times would decrease by a third at Soarin' and Toy Story Mania simply because it has to be assumed that there are guests that want to ride it currently that aren't willing to wait in the current standby lines.

The amount of money earmarked for Hollywood Studios seems to be substantial, and my guess is that the 3rd Toy Story track is part of that budget. However, the cost of adding a 3rd track to Toy Story is far less than the cost of adding an E-Ticket, a D-Ticket and two B-Tickets (essentially what was added to DCA). DHS seems to be getting the new rides and the 3rd track, but Epcot seems to just be getting the 3rd theater.

My guess is that the combination of new rides and the third track will lower Toy Story's average wait times to the 30 minute range. I also expect that at Epcot, the high demand, low capacity issue will shift from Soarin' to Frozen, essentially creating a new problem 6 months before they fix the current problem.

 

[BrerJon]

My guess is that the combination of new rides and the third track will lower Toy Story's average wait times to the 30 minute range. I also expect that at Epcot, the high demand, low capacity issue will shift from Soarin' to Frozen, essentially creating a new problem 6 months before they fix the current problem.

I doubt the extra track will have much effect on wait times beyond the first couple of months. Amount of guests experiencing the ride, or times they go on it? Probably, but not the times themselves.

Firstly, they may just fill the extra track with Fastpass+ slots, and because Disney makes it compulsory to choose 3 attractions, they'll easily sell out, and go to people who woudn't have bothered before or think 'why not, if they're giving me a free Fastpass, maybe I will go on it again'.

And secondly - most importantly, I think - not adding attractions does nothing to solve the issue of repeat riders - it's a very repeatable attraction, and I would argue one of the key problems is the line isn't just made up of one and done guests, but many people in that 60 minute line are trying to beat their score, or simply are going because there's not much else for their family.

Those are the crucial guests you don't get in California, which is a key reason lines are shorter there. With so much to do in Disneyland, nobody would dream of riding TSMM twice in one day - there's no time - but by not building extra attractions, those repeat guests aren't going anywhere in DHS and will simply try again, maybe a third time, if lines seem to temporarily drop, soon filling things up.

Finally, you have a large percentage of park guests currently not bothering because of the lines. Those are the ones who will fill up any leftover slots, and before long you'll be back to where you were.

Hope I'm wrong, of course.

 

[Crazydisneyfanluke]

Has their been any exterior work?

 

[RSoxNo1]

I doubt the extra track will have much effect on wait times beyond the first couple of months. Amount of guests experiencing the ride, or times they go on it? Probably, but not the times themselves.

Firstly, they may just fill the extra track with Fastpass+ slots, and because Disney makes it compulsory to choose 3 attractions, they'll easily sell out, and go to people who woudn't have bothered before or think 'why not, if they're giving me a free Fastpass, maybe I will go on it again'.

And secondly - most importantly, I think - not adding attractions does nothing to solve the issue of repeat riders - it's a very repeatable attraction, and I would argue one of the key problems is the line isn't just made up of one and done guests, but many people in that 60 minute line are trying to beat their score, or simply are going because there's not much else for their family.

Those are the crucial guests you don't get in California, which is a key reason lines are shorter there. With so much to do in Disneyland, nobody would dream of riding TSMM twice in one day - there's no time - but by not building extra attractions, those repeat guests aren't going anywhere in DHS and will simply try again, maybe a third time, if lines seem to temporarily drop, soon filling things up.

Finally, you have a large percentage of park guests currently not bothering because of the lines. Those are the ones who will fill up any leftover slots, and before long you'll be back to where you were.

Hope I'm wrong, of course.

Fastpass distribution is 65-70% of an attraction's capacity. Adding to the park's capacity adds to the available Fastpass capacity as well.

As I've said before, the parks still need more rides. This doesn't eliminate that need. What it does do is help alleviate a problem with attractions that are under built capacity wise.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

My guess is that the combination of new rides and the third track will lower Toy Story's average wait times to the 30 minute range.

Even with a third track I'd be surprised to see the wait times average less than 45-60 minutes on most days at DHS. DCA has dozens of rides and the only thing that keeps me from riding TSMM a dozen times a day are the long lines.

 

[lentesta]

:
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@lentesta... How have wait times at Toy Story Mania been affected before and after Cars Land?

I'll check later this week. In Orlando on a research trip.

 

[danlb_2000]

Has their been any exterior work?

Orlando Theme Parks News had picture from March 4th that didn't show any obvious work.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Even with a third track I'd be surprised to see the wait times average less than 45-60 minutes on most days at DHS. DCA has dozens of rides and the only thing that keeps me from riding TSMM a dozen times a day are the long lines.

How could that be. Every TSMM whiner on here claims that DCA's version never gets waits more than 30 minutes (not true). The capacity increase should be a bigger factor than a better attraction lineup, but the combination of the two should increase the wait times significantly.

 

[SirLink]

How is that a bad analogy? You're only argument at the order that this is taking place. You still need to replace the TV, the TV is a problem that can be fixed for much less than a roof. When you repair the broken roof you're not getting a new exciting roof that no one has ever seen before. The comparison is that both are needed, just one is more important than the other.

The capacity issues at Toy Story and Soarin' are just that: issues. They are addressing them and that is a good thing. What isn't a good thing is that they haven't addressed the need for new attractions. DHS should have had at least 2 more additional rides open since Toy Story Mania, and Epcot should have seen another overhaul to a Future World pavilion since The Land pavilion. That hasn't happened and that should be criticized. The only criticism that I think is fair on the 3rd track and 3rd theater additions is that it didn't happen 5 years ago.

@lentesta... How have wait times at Toy Story Mania been affected before and after Cars Land?

How is it bad? You don't repair a TV you replace the TV for a brand new TV. A roof you need to get fixed. In parks the roof is a fix for capacity. You fix the overdemand by creating more capacity to move people to new areas of the park. Simply increasing supply at these two rides will just increase demand and have zero benefit. The only way to fix demand would be add 10 new rides to Epcot/DHS and remove all fastpass.

 

[RSoxNo1]

How is it bad? You don't repair a TV you replace the TV for a brand new TV. A roof you need to get fixed. In parks the roof is a fix for capacity. You fix the overdemand by creating more capacity to move people to new areas of the park. Simply increasing supply at these two rides will just increase demand and have zero benefit. The only way to fix demand would be add 10 new rides to Epcot/DHS and remove all fastpass.

You're thinking a little too hard about the comparison. A broken tv and a broken roof are both problems. One is a bigger problem. The capacity of Toy Story and Soarin' is a problem. The attraction lineup at three of the parks is also a problem. The attraction lineup is a bigger problem, but it doesn't mean that the smaller problem (capacity at a few rides) isn't also a problem. Both need to be addressed.

As for adding capacity increasing demand for the rides... that's not how supply and demand works. Typically supply (number of available spots at a particular attraction) and demand (willingness to wait a certain period of time) intersect. After the point of intersection any increase to supply is an exercise in futility. Right now, the demand for both attractions exceeds the supply. Increasing the supply will change the graph, but it will do so in a way that benefits more guests. Tell me again, how this is a problem?

I'm also guessing that among the biggest complaints of guests has been an inability to get Fastpass+ reservations at Toy Story, Soarin' and Mine Train. This addresses two of those three.