Nooooo.... The maintainence bay for the original two tracks was a new build! They stuck it on the side of stage 3.
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DHS Soundstage 1 Renovation - Toy Storia Mania expansion
- Thread starter danlb_2000
- Start date
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah now I remember. Someone pointed that out a long time ago, most likely you. Guess I forgot and got confused for a second.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I would argue that if TSMM had shorter waits, it would be the type of ride that people would go on over and over though. I'm extremely skeptical that building additional rides at DHS would have a significant difference in wait times at TSMM. The "there's nothing else to do in the park for little ones" is a tired argument IMHO -- you'd probably need 5 or 6 C- to E-ticket family rides to make a dent in DHS' wait times.
Citing DCA's TSMM wait times is stupid considering the park attendance, demographic differences and lack of FP at DCA. It's also been noted that TSMM in Tokyo -- in a park with a lot of great attractions -- gets very high wait times, on par with DHS.
Getting ride of FP+ would have an impact on standby times, but isn't going to make the ride less "popular" -- just would redistribute wait times.
Marlins1
Well-Known Member
Even for Disney this seems too slow for just adding the one track. Maybe they lumped the two projects together - late 2016 makes sense for Soarin' at a Disney pace. Other possibility is that they don't need the whole Soundstage building for this and will demo part of it - would love to see that street become less of a concrete jungle.
So what you are saying is that Uni is greedier than Disney because they have higher profit margins.
ninjaprincesst
Well-Known Member
The only thong I would add is just an expansion of what you already said. They are going to have one of the most popular attractions in a park that has barley any attractions down for an insanely long time period.
dstrawn9889
Well-Known Member
but have they ordered the hardware yet?
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
I would argue that more rides equals more people in said rides, and that equals less people waiting for TSMM, making wait times better. Agree to disagree I guess.
Why? Because you don't have one? Well I do so the argument isn't tired for me because its the truth. I'm not saying if they built a couple more rides all of a sudden TSMM would be a walk on. My argument was that if Disney had expanded to meet capacity with new attractions like they SHOULD have, TSMM might not be as crazy.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
You asked "In what measurable standards (not based on opinion) is Uni "kicking Disneys butt) in?" and I gave you measurable standards, greed or not has no bearing on it.
Considering Universal has cheaper hotels, cheaper park tickets, cheaper in-park food etc., those profit margins are pretty impressive. I don't care how greedy a corporation is if they're delivering a great experience providing good value for money for the guests. If Disney was making those sort of margins I'm sure you'd be the first to congratulate them on trouncing the competition.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
There's as many "rides for little ones" in DAK (2 without height restrictions) as there are in DHS. Yet, nothing in DAK gets anywhere near the wait times as DHS despite similar attendance numbers. Why is that? Because of the far better capacity issues with the rides at DAK, which is the kind of thing they are trying to solve with this TSMM expansion.
Look, I'm not saying that DHS isn't horribly under-built and ignored -- it is. And that's terrible. Disney has been crappy with investing in the park like they should have been doing. But that simply exacerbates the capacity issues that TSMM has compared to demand. It isn't the root cause.
Due to the park attendance, general demographics (lots of first time visitors/infrequent visitors and a high percentage of younger guests), and the repeatability of the ride, TSMM at DHS is going to have high demand whether a bunch of other rides are built or not. Would more rides lessen the demand? Sure, somewhat. But if you put in 2 or 3 dark rides, that means that all those families are going to ride those 2 or 3 dark rides -- and TSMM in a day. It's not going to lessen demand that much, especially since if the wait times start to drop, more people will re-ride it due to the nature of the ride.
You'd have to drastically change the offerings of the park without significantly increasing attendance to really have TSMM work well in its current configuration. Increasing capacity to the ride, given the dynamics at DHS/WDW, is a good idea. It just needs to be done in addition to building a heck of a lot of other rides.
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spacemt354
Chili's
Truth and opinion are two separate things. I think as fans we are blind when we are passionate about a subject. the magic kingdom has the most E tickets of any park in WDW, and is the most crowded park in the world.
Just simply adding attractions is not the answer. More rides = more people in the park. Those people will want to ride TSMM as well. They aren't going to ignore it. And adding to Pixar land just draws more people to TSMM. I would highly doubt you would see a dramatic decrease in wait-times. Several shows like Indy and LMA are people eaters. There are plenty of places for people to go, just not as many "rides"
I'm on board with the idea of adding more rides to DHS. But I'm not going to claim that those rides are simply going to make TSMM lines dramatically decrease. Capacity is key.
The Mine train was just added to Fantasyland and averages long lines, yet Peter Pan's flight still has long lines. Why? Capacity.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I'm no mathematician nor am I a business annalist, however, a couple of thoughts cross my mind. One is that percentages indicate a growth from previous numbers. The numbers between Disney and Uni are vastly different when it comes to actual cash receipts. For example, if Disney's overall income last year was (for the sake of simplicity) $10,000,000.00 and this year it grew by 7.2%, that totals, in cash... an additional $720,000.00. That equals a total revenue of $10,720,000.00. Now just for grins and giggles let's say that last year Uni's was $8,000,000.00 At 17.4% would be an increase of $1,392.000.00 for a total of $9,392,000.00. Very impressive gain, but, hardly "kicking their butt". Now if that trend were to continue, which it can't because Uni just plain does not have the room for that many people, then Disney has a problem.
Believe me Disney is not hurting at all nor are they overly concerned about Universal. If you consider that the parks are busier then they have ever been, it can be thanks to Uni. Until Universal can be at least a one week destination, they will not be a threat to Disney. They will actually funnel their overflow to Disney.
That doesn't mean that I don't think that Universal is doing some pretty spectacular things up the road, because they are. I suppose that the argument could be made that if Uni wasn't there all those people would be at Disney. First off, that isn't true because many of those are Uni. Fans and not Disney fans and second, can you imagine what it would be like if all those people showed up at Disney at the same time. You can't move now, it is a nightmare thought.
I believe that what they have been doing and the response that it has received have possibly motivated Disney to finally wake up and upgrade, but, there is no way in hell that they are doing it because they are scared. They are doing it to show that they are current and keep the crowd that they have for the future. For that, again we can thank Universal.
In business, percentages are a measuring tool, but, actual revenue is the holy grail. You can have a 100% increase in revenue and still go bankrupt. It all depends on where you started. It is natural, for most businesses that the bigger they are the more money they make every year, but there is always a ceiling and along with that the percentages of increase each year will decline due to natural saturation.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
This kind of margin speaks to the EFFICIENCY of UNI's operations, Disney for all it's customer facing penny pinching is very inefficient and their margins reflect that inefficiency.
Transformers was down an ally in which for alot of construction they blocked the ally off . So guests weren't disturbed by the construction.
For both Soaring and Toy story they are the main attractions at both of those parks. They conistantly have the longest lines in the park.
With epoct I guess you could close soaring and people will still have test track and the countries but are you going to do at Hollywood studios ? Star Wars is at best a 15 minute wait . Tower of terror and rocking roller coster both have worse height restrictions and are perhaps a 20-30 minute wait .
Its much easier to simply close down a space and build something new than it is to build an expansion onto something that has to operate day in and day out.
I see this reasoning said often. I love universal , I go once a year . The problem universal is a one day park. We pay for the fast pass system they have and we can get through both parks in one year.
The other problem is this. I love the mummy . But there is nothing really iconic. I go to disney and there are still rides from my childhood. I go to universal and its all new. The rides don't have staying power. Where is back to the future , where is jaws , where is king kong (although now they are bringing it back) there is no real magic.
Then you have the fact that universal skews older. Disney did do an expansion and quite a big one at Magic kingdom. They are working on a big one for animal kingdom , they are adding capacity to epcot and hollywood and they are bringing a new ride to Epcot. But hey its frozen so lets just complain over and over again but hey look universal just closed another 3 of thier classic rides but lets praise them .
Its a weird freaky double standard
Magic kingdom just wrapped a large upgrade . Animal Kingdom is in the midst of a large upgrade. D23 is a few months away and I'm sure we will get an announcement of another large roll out like the last few d23s. And with that it will work out to large expansions being completed every 3 years or so to the parks with minor capacity increases between them.
azox
Well-Known Member
I think it really comes down to the mix of visitors to WDW that they are currently pulling in. To those people that get to go once or twice in a lifetime, I think the place is still magical and fresh. They don't notice the things that have been taken away because they probably never had the time to notice it the first time. (We all remember our first trips to WDW thinking it was an unbounded list of entertainment and fun because we left there not seeing all of it.)
For us, it's harder to swallow because we want to feel like it's magical and fresh every time we go, but on a much quicker time frame. Since we have pretty much looked at every nook and cranny of WDW, it's much harder to get that feeling of there is so much more to see. I typically throw in Uni during our visit down there and cut back on WDW days to have something new to look at and do in between the major construction times.
It would be really interesting to know the ratio of one timers/two timers vs people who go yearly. I would think with such a large population out there, the one timers/two timers are who makes up the large majority of customers and we are probably very few.
I won't stop going to WDW, but the number of days I go has decreased. I just wish I knew why it is that I feel I must go to epcot each time I go down there... I know there is nothing really new.. but something about the feel of that park makes me happy...
But in this case, adding on is just as easy, if not easier then building new. For both TSMM and Soarin' the vast majority of the work can be done without any disruption of the existing rides. If they plan things right they can even upgrade the projection systems in Soarin' while still always having two theaters operating.
IMHO, if you are running through both parks in just one day you are missing out. You can do all the rides at WDW in one day, people have done it (or at least gotten close), but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Your second point is actually something that a lot of people criticize Disney for, it's become stagnant, some people actually like seeing something new every time they go to a park. I am not sure what your definition of "real magic" is? Jaws was a classic attraction, but I think it was a worth while sacrifice to get Diagon Alley which is a truly magical (pun not intended) area.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Maybe because when Universal takes away a classic the replacement is almost always as good or even better than what it replaced?
You're conveniently ignoring all the classics Disney has taken away that were replaced by something not as good or just plain mediocre. Horizons, original Imagination, Snow White, etc. But no let's ignore all that because Disney is awesome and Universal sucks. And you say we have "a weird freaky double standard"
The only thing worth getting excited about at Disney right now is Avatar, partially because it's bringing the first new E Ticket to WDW in 11 years. Frozen? Please. All it is is the absolute cheapest way to bring it to WDW shoved in an area it doesn't belong in. How I wish they would bring us something on the level of what's rumored for Tokyo. You'll probably love it though because when it comes to Disney,
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