DHS Soundstage 1 Renovation - Toy Storia Mania expansion

[znelson]

Size, scope, and speed of rollouts. And it doesn't matter how acutely-measurable it is. What matters is the impression in the minds of customers. Perception is often reality even if it's unfortunate.

We visit WDW every year and each time I'm reminded about, what appears to us, to be a cash-grab. I know prices always go up, inflation, yada yada. But the last thing Disney should want is their customers to feel unsafe or taken advantage-of. What happens over the course of our trip is repeated reinforcement that prices are going up and the experience is being degraded. It shouldn't feel like that. Two years to roll out an existing design doesn't help the situation.

If our kids were just a little older, we'd spend more time at Uni because it feels fresh and new. I have to say, we were pretty excited for New Fantasyland but it's kind of a let down. All that waiting for a meh experience. The 7DMT is another example of waiting and then being let down. It's a cute ride, but it took a long time. Look at what Uni cranked out in the same amount of time. I think it boils down to Uni is serious, they've said as much especially considering that huge land parcel down the road, and Disney is treading water. I wish it wasn't that way.

So yeah, Disney is getting their butt kicked in the minds of customers, I'm sure we're not alone, there are plenty of threads on the subject. I don't think it matters when you compare bottom line and profitability, we're talking mind-share which is more important because that's what leads to revenue in the first place.

Anyway - I'm not a hater, like I said we just bought in at VGF last year. I just wish Iger's Disney was more like the 1980's Disney that led the way. DHS is a new opportunity for them to innovate, let's hope they don't keep us waiting 4-7 years for it.

 

[Tom Morrow]

New attractions would have also provided a new experience and a new reason to visit in addition to adding capacity. Instead, WDW just gets added capacity. A year and a half from now. And these will be the only attractions to "open" in DHS and Epcot for at least ~5 years.

yay.

 

[Mike S]

Ok. I was thinking more along the lines of bottom line measurements. Crowd level. Profitability. Company health. Etc. but I do see where your point could be considered a measure but does that one thing rise to the level of butt kicking overall?

No, not overall. Tbh I don't that'll ever truly happen. What I predict will happen is that Universal will make a big name for themselves and become their own complete destination like WDW after the addition of more hotels and their rumored water park and 3rd theme park. They will turn into a real top competitor for Disney in Orlando but I don't think they'll reach or exceed Disney's numbers. Anything can happen though so that is just my guess.

 

[erasure fan1]

What I predict will happen is that Universal will make a big name for themselves and become their own complete destination like WDW after the addition of more hotels and their rumored water park and 3rd theme park. They will turn into a real top competitor for Disney in Orlando but I don't think they'll reach or exceed Disney's numbers.

Agreed, Uni does not have the history that Disney does so I wouldn't think they would ever catch them. But Disney has left the door wide open to allow them the opportunity to take a substantial bite out of the market they dominate. And thus far it seems like Uni has been taking full advantage of it. The sad fact is that Disney still seems like they don't care what is going on down the road. What may seem insignificant now with people spending a bit more time over at Uni, over time could become much much more with the addition of more hotels and more stuff.

 

[spacemt354]

No, not overall. Tbh I don't that'll ever truly happen. What I predict will happen is that Universal will make a big name for themselves and become their own complete destination like WDW after the addition of more hotels and their rumored water park and 3rd theme park. They will turn into a real top competitor for Disney in Orlando but I don't think they'll reach or exceed Disney's numbers. Anything can happen though so that is just my guess.

I also notice we also tend to talk up the impact of these rumored future Uni projects and downplay similarly rumored future Disney projects. I think that speaks to the level of support the fanbase of Uni has for the quality of their current product.

I feel like we assume that based on the current landscape Uni will just keep on growing and Disney will keep sputtering but it's really hard to predict that now. Sure we could point to the lack of new attractions but one can't dispute that these two expansions were both needed. Naturally I would have hoped for more announced along with it but time will tell. In the Internet age, people want things instantly and while 2016 might seem far away, it's going to come up quick.

In a month or so it will be the 1 year anniversary of the mine train...that went by fast...

 

[Mike S]

I also notice we also tend to talk up the impact of these rumored future Uni projects and downplay similarly rumored future Disney projects. I think that speaks to the level of support the fanbase of Uni has for the quality of their current product.

I feel like we assume that based on the current landscape Uni will just keep on growing and Disney will keep sputtering but it's really hard to predict that now. Sure we could point to the lack of new attractions but one can't dispute that these two expansions were both needed. Naturally I would have hoped for more announced along with it but time will tell. In the Internet age, people want things instantly and while 2016 might seem far away, it's going to come up quick.

In a month or so it will be the 1 year anniversary of the mine train...that went by fast...

I think people are more willing to wait depending on what we're waiting for. King Kong is opening in 2016 and no one seems to think that's too long for it. On the other hand, Disney is taking till 2016 from when these projects started (Toy Story has supposedly been getting worked on since October when Frozen left) to essentially build clones. When Uni cloned Transformers the old building was demolished and the new one was up and running in less than a year. Considering the fact that Toy Story expansion is going into an existing building, late 2016 is painfully slow. Disney could probably have Soarin' up in a similar time as Transformers too if they wanted considering the area is completely backstage.

 

[erasure fan1]

I also notice we also tend to talk up the impact of these rumored future Uni projects and downplay similarly rumored future Disney projects. I think that speaks to the level of support the fanbase of Uni has for the quality of their current product.

I feel like we assume that based on the current landscape Uni will just keep on growing and Disney will keep sputtering but it's really hard to predict that now. Sure we could point to the lack of new attractions but one can't dispute that these two expansions were both needed. Naturally I would have hoped for more announced along with it but time will tell. In the Internet age, people want things instantly and while 2016 might seem far away, it's going to come up quick.

In a month or so it will be the 1 year anniversary of the mine train...that went by fast...

I think people (like myself) see the time issue because of what other companies have accomplished in a much shorter time frame. Were these 2 expansions needed? Or would they eliminate a lot of the gridlock with more to do in both of the parks? Uni has earned the right to be praised for their efforts while Disney has earned the right for people to downplay what they are doing in my eyes.

 

[mp2bill]

I would think that would be the case for the majority of the construction time, but depending on what they are going to do with the queue there may have to be some down time to finish things up.

OK, yeah; I figured there'll probably be some downtime because they'll need to hook up the new track to the existing system, but it'd be a death knell for DHS for the time being if TSMM is down for too long.

 

[BrerJon]

I also notice we also tend to talk up the impact of these rumored future Uni projects and downplay similarly rumored future Disney projects. I think that speaks to the level of support the fanbase of Uni has for the quality of their current product.

It's also a case of people go by track record. Rumours fly about Universal expansions, a year or two later construction begins, a couple of years after that, new attractions that blow everyone away open. Rinse, and repeat.

Whereas Disney... people have been talking about a 'LucasLand' at DHS for about fifteen years now, way before they purchased Lucasfilm. Star Tours 2 took over a decade to happen, New Fantasyland took forever to build out a very small area, and now we're into - what, the third or fourth year? - of being promised that a Star Wars land / CarsLand whatever is coming, and all we have to do is wait until D23. Yet again. That Brazil pavilion at Epcot? Hyperion Wharf? Vapourware.

Disney has a reputation for letting rumours swirl and nothing coming of it, and when it does many years later it's disapointing. Universal has a reputation for things coming to fruition and exceeding expectations, which is why they get a greater benefit of the doubt.

 

[BrerJon]

Ok. I was thinking more along the lines of bottom line measurements. Crowd level. Profitability. Company health. Etc. but I do see where your point could be considered a measure but does that one thing rise to the level of butt kicking overall?

OK, try this... courtesy of ParentsOf4 over on the Spirited Ten thread:

In its most recently completed fiscal year, Disney's Parks & Resorts (P&R) operating margin finished 2014 at 17.6%, up a strong 1.8% since the year before. Led by impressive performance at WDW and DLR, Disney's P&R margin is the best it's been since 2002.

Universal's Theme Parks operating margin finished 2014 at 34.1%, up an even stronger 2.6% since the previous year. Universal's Theme Parks margin is the best it's ever been.

On the capex side, Disney reinvested 17.8% of its total 2014 P&R revenue back into theme parks. However, most of that was in China. Domestically, Disney invested only 9.6% of domestic P&R revenue back into its theme parks, one of its lowest levels ever. For some perspective, that bastion of amusement park excellence Six Flags invested 9.2% of its revenue.

Universal doesn't seem particularly concerned that central Florida and California are 'mature' markets. Despite Universal's Theme Parks revenue growing by 17.4% last year (compared to Disney's 7.2%), Universal still managed to invest 25.6% of its theme park revenue back into its theme parks. For some perspective, that's an investment level Disney hasn't exceeded since 1999.

So those headline figures, Universal's operating margin is 34.1%, Disney's is 17.6%, and Universal's revenue from the parks grew 17.4% while Disney's grew 7.2%.

 

[spacemt354]

I think people (like myself) see the time issue because of what other companies have accomplished in a much shorter time frame. Were these 2 expansions needed? Or would they eliminate a lot of the gridlock with more to do in both of the parks? Uni has earned the right to be praised for their efforts while Disney has earned the right for people to downplay what they are doing in my eyes.

Yeah but "more to do" is kind of arbitrary.

More to do in the park also increases park attendance...it doesn't guarantee rides will have decreased wait times with their current capacities.

While more attractions at DHS would be helpful, I feel like the half-day park thing is really hyperbolized among fans.

Can you really do evey single attraction (shows included) in half a day? No. It's just the attractions that are there we don't see and/or are mediocre.

While 2015 might be slacking in attractions, 2016 and beyond seem to have a change of guard.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

View attachment 85751
Whole new E Tickets built in the same time it takes Disney to clone what they've already done in an existing building. Also just consistently building new exciting rides about every 2 years.

Excellent work Mike!

We just need the companion pieces from WDW.

Hub refurb, Downtown Disney, Pandora, and some DVC.

The most compelling part would be the rate at which the revenue generating DVC goes up in comparison to the show pieces.

 

[Mike S]

Excellent work Mike!

We just need the companion pieces from WDW.

Hub refurb, Downtown Disney, Pandora, and some DVC.

The most compelling part would be the rate at which the revenue generating DVC goes up in comparison to the show pieces.

I would love to take credit but I can't. The image comes from Orlando United.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

I would love to take credit but I can't. The image comes from Orlando United.

Universal even outdoes WDW when it comes to its fans too it seems.

 

[AndyMagic]

This project right here is essentially everything that is wrong with Disney's current business model. It has a little bit of every stupid decision they've made over the last 8 years all wrapped into one. Let me see if I can tick off all the WDW management tropes that this expansion contains:

• It is a solution to the wrong problem (The problem isn't individual ride capacity, it's a lack of attractions)
• It is using up valuable resources and real estate
  
• It is to be built at a glacial pace
  
• It was announced too early for no discernible reason
  
• It is a completely foolish waste of money
  
• It will not increase attendance, guest spending, or length of stay at the park
• It provides no marketable addition to the park and no new incentive to take a trip to the resort

I think that pretty much covers it. Did I miss anything?

 

[marni1971]

One problem with not connecting the tracks is that they will have to build a second maintenance bay.

Well, the first one was also a new building. But this is a crazy schedule. Almost laughable.

 

[marni1971]

Serious question: When did they "start" construction on the third track? I thought it began somewhere in the Sept to Oct 2014

Certain things were only signed off on last September on paper.

 

[Brer Panther]

Two years turn-around time for an attraction with a known scope, existing designs, sourceable parts, is ridiculous. No wonder Uni is kicking Dis butt. It seems like the only thing Dis can turn around in a reasonable timeframe are rate hikes and perk reductions.

Eisner, please come back.

THANK YOU. Seriously, it's baffling how people give Bob Iger a free pass when he's no better than Eisner.

 

[Mike S]

Well, the first one was also a new building. But this is a crazy schedule. Almost laughable.

I thought it took over the Millionaire building? They demolished the old one and built a new one?

 

[erasure fan1]

Yeah but "more to do" is kind of arbitrary.

More to do in the park also increases park attendance...it doesn't guarantee rides will have decreased wait times with their current capacities.

While more attractions at DHS would be helpful, I feel like the half-day park thing is really hyperbolized among fans.

Can you really do evey single attraction (shows included) in half a day? No. It's just the attractions that are there we don't see and/or are mediocre.

While 2015 might be slacking in attractions, 2016 and beyond seem to have a change of guard.

Of course there are no guaranties but I would wager a guess that TSMM would not be near as popular as it is, if the park had a couple other family friendly quality rides. The ride is a must do for us because there just isn't a lot for us to do with a little one as a family. The problem is park attendance has already gone way up with a lack of added attractions to support it. Don't get me wrong, this will help, but if Disney hadn't been in cruise control for the past how many years, it wouldn't have been needed.