DHS Soundstage 1 Renovation - Toy Storia Mania expansion

spacemt354

Chili's
It would be, but aren't we talking about DHS? You aren't going to get the wait time down to 30-50 min unless you get rid of FP for the ride and build like 8-10 other family friendly rides.

Or build a third track.

Yep, we're talking about DHS. And that's your opinion. You're simply not grasping the reality that some major factors for the 100+ min waits in DHS are completely tangential to whether or not the attraction is popular.

Hourly capacity and park settings have as much of, if not more of, an integral component into the attraction wait-times. Popularity doesn't always equate to longer wait-times.

Are you planning to get ride of FP at DHS's TSMM as well? Because that's a glaring difference between the rides, even ignoring alternative ride options and park attendance.

And define "more" family friendly well designed attractions. 2-3 such rides? Ain't going scratch the surface for TSMM's wait times.

Nope. FP stays.

"More" family friendly well designed attractions? Any additional offerings to the park that are enticing for park guests. Giving them more options. I'm not going to be an armchair imagineer, because we have already gone far enough off topic, but you can use your imagination. Anything from an eclectic mix of dark rides, kid rides, an E-ticket, anything to take some heat off of TSMM.

Now your next counter might be..."well more attraction offerings = more people in the park, which would cancel out any decrease in wait-time" Not necessarily...because spreading out interests throughout the park is critical for keeping wait-times reasonable. I'm not suggesting TSMM will change overnight. All I'm saying is you will see a significant decrease in wait-time if more attraction offerings are available to guests.

That's my opinion. Feel free to disagree, but that's what I believe.

And there's that opinion again. I hate to break it to you, but the ride is popular. People are willing to wait far longer than 30min because they enjoy the ride. I think the discussion isn't going to move forward unless people understand that most guests ride the ride because they really like it not because they are shrugging their shoulders because there's nothing else to do in DHS.

Heck, look at Buzz in MK -- despite being an omnimover with great capacity and being in a park with tons of stuff to do, it gets 45 minute waits for standby on average days.

I understand that nobody is going to convince anyone else of anything, but I just wish people would understand that just because they personally might not care for TSMM, it is a ride that is very popular for its own sake.

I think you're just missing the point because you feel people have a venomous hatred of the ride. I don't hate the ride. I think it's a great offering. And yes, it is quite popular. But would you rank it on the level of ToT? Everest? Splash Mountain? Haunted Mansion? I wouldn't.

But again, big picture here. People are willing to wait because, well, what else are they going to do? It's not like they have much more going for them in terms of rides (DHS is down to 5 now, including TSMM) so 4 more things throughout the day. If you get the proper FPs you can knock out ToT and RnRC in an hour (maybe even less) and Star Tours is a 10-20 min wait. GMR maximum wait of 30 mins.

Then maybe you catch a show or two and grab lunch. If you started at 9am, it's now 1pm or so. What else do you plan on doing at DHS? If I was part of a family who only comes down to Disney every few years, I'd wait for TSMM, whether it's 1 hour or 2 hours, just simply because it's one of the newest attractions is the park (even 6 years later), there is nothing else to do, and I would like to spend more time in the park. Or I would have gotten a FP for it (if available).

Not everyone is waiting for TSMM because it's the best thing ever. From experience, some of my family members hadn't been to Disney in years and were willing to wait because they simply wanted to say they rode it. That same year we ended up going to DL at Christmas, and the wait-time on Christmas day for TSMM was 30 mins. I remember counting at least 5 attractions that had a longer wait-time (RSR, Cali Screamin, ToT, Soarin, GRR) TSMM is absolutely a good attraction, but some feel the ride is overrated because you're essentially waiting 2 hours to play a 3D video game. I would put it on the same level as Buzz, Anything more than 45 mins and it's simply not worth it.

I would be willing to bet that a Pixar Place expansion coupled with Star Wars would reduce TSMM's wait-times because they offer people more things to do throughout the day and it will spread out the crowds. More people will be in the park, yes, but newer offerings will assist the crowds at TSMM.
 
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roj2323

Well-Known Member
If we are talking big picture, here are a few things DHS needs to fix in no particular order.
  1. Wait times - TSMM in particular but Rockin roller coaster has an issue as well
  2. Special events stage - it impedes guest flow in a major way
  3. The cluster Flop that is the Fantasmic entrance -- It needs a large easy to find Gateway
  4. The parking lot needs a reconfigured Exit
  5. Aging infrastructure - particularly restroom capacity and general wear but also concrete walkways throughout the park.
  6. The bus lot needs to be reconfigured BADLY and it needs larger easier to read (from a distance) signage.
  7. The guest flow issues in the Animation courtyard particularly by the Studio gate and stroller parking lot, StarTours exit (tatooine traders), and to a lesser extent The exit of Muppets 3D

Now there is a list of probably 100 things I'd like to see them do but this is just the "this has to be fixed" list
 
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mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
If we are talking big picture, here are a few things DHS needs to fix in no particular order.
  1. Wait times - TSMM in particular but Rockin roller coaster has an issue as well
  2. Special events stage - it impedes guest flow in a major way
  3. The cluster Flop that is the Fantasmic entrance -- It needs a large easy to find Gateway
  4. The parking lot needs a reconfigured Exit
  5. Aging infrastructure - particularly restroom capacity and general wear but also concrete walkways through out the park.
  6. The bus lot needs to be reconfigured BADLY and it needs larger easier to read (from a distance) signage.
  7. The guest flow issues in the Animation courtyard particularly by the Studio gate and stroller parking lot, StarTours exit (tatooine traders), and to a lesser extent The exit of Muppets 3D

Now there is a list of probably 100 things I'd like to see them do but this is just the "this has to be fixed" list

I'd also add:
  1. 3 more headliners (1 for Star Wars, 2 for Pixar): Twister dark ride for SW, Door Coaster and indoor version of RSR for Pixar
  2. some all-age attractions - 2 dark rides, 4 flats (3 in Pixar, 1 in SW)
  3. Updates for B&TB, Fantasmic and Mermaid (replacements for B&TB and Mermaid)
  4. Something for the Muppets part of SoA (I'd love a dark ride and restaurant)
  5. Another thrilling E-ticket for left side of park (Star Wars)
  6. GMR update/replacement - hopefully a trackless dark ride
  7. some reworking for Animation Courtyard (maybe come up with a better theme?)
Fantasy wishes (none of which are likely):
Indiana Jones E-ticket water ride
Fantasia attraction for Animation Courtyard
Toontown mini-land with Toontown Trolley (Kong 360 meets Star Tours), and Mickey's house
Crimestoppers EMV shoot 'em up dark ride by ToT
Death Star Omnimover
Gonzo launched kiddie coaster (like you're flying out of a cannon)
 

roj2323

Well-Known Member
I'd also add:
  1. 3 more headliners (1 for Star Wars, 2 for Pixar): Twister dark ride for SW, Door Coaster and indoor version of RSR for Pixar
  2. some all-age attractions - 2 dark rides, 4 flats (3 in Pixar, 1 in SW)
  3. Updates for B&TB, Fantasmic and Mermaid (replacements for B&TB and Mermaid)
  4. Something for the Muppets part of SoA (I'd love a dark ride and restaurant)
  5. Another thrilling E-ticket for left side of park (Star Wars)
  6. GMR update/replacement - hopefully a trackless dark ride
  7. some reworking for Animation Courtyard (maybe come up with a better theme?)
Fantasy wishes (none of which are likely):
Indiana Jones E-ticket water ride
Fantasia attraction for Animation Courtyard
Toontown mini-land with Toontown Trolley (Kong 360 meets Star Tours), and Mickey's house
Crimestoppers EMV shoot 'em up dark ride by ToT
Death Star Omnimover
Gonzo launched kiddie coaster (like you're flying out of a cannon)

The problem with this "add on list" is these are Wants whereas I was Posting NEEDS.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
It is not about Burbank who is in charge of these decisions, but if WDI can design and cost it cheaper than the elusive $150 per hammer that they were costing projects out.
Yeah, for $1.5 billion, Universal Orlando will get (not sure on exact costs):
Rip Ride Rockit
Hogsmeade
Diagon Alley
Despicable Me - Minion Mayhem
Superstar Parade
Cinematic Spectacular
Transformers
Springfield
Cabana Bay
Citywalk's complete renovation
Sapphire Falls
Kong E-ticket
IOA nighttime show
Twister replacement (rumored for 2015)
Gardens of Allah museum
potentially the KidZone redo
potentially something new in JP

WDI has to maximize budgets the way Universal has done as of late
 

FutureWorld1982

Well-Known Member
We did however hit up Little Mermaid in FL to see the comparison between WDW and DCA (one of the FEW queues in WDW that are better than DL).

Wow... I mean, I absolutely love Disneyland, and many of its rides are superior to Magic Kingdom's, but if there is one thing that is better at Walt Disney World, that is the queue lines. 90% of Disneyland's queues are horrible.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Magic Kingdom - Too many
Universal's Super fun happy park of joy - 5 billion
EPCOT - 22 billion earned per day during Food and Wine (runs from 06/12 - 05/08, might extend it even more next year!)
Sea World - the 874 people not disappointed by by Antarctica: Empire of the Penguin
Holiday World - Everyone not banned for videotaping on the Raven
DCA - Still no one since everyone is trying to keep Cars Land a secret
BGT - Locals and those who haven't visited BGW
DHS - 11,876,385 confused first time visitors to WDW every year
DAK - Too hard to differentiate between the guests and the denizens
USF - Millions and millions of themed beverage fans from around the globe
These numbers can't be right. There is no way there are 874 people out there who weren't disappointed by Antarctica. Easily the biggest fail in the history of theme parks.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
But would you rank it on the level of ToT? Everest? Splash Mountain? Haunted Mansion? I wouldn't.

If ranking for overall theming and story? No. If ranking on how fun it is and whether or not it's a must do ride? Yes.

I think if you did a poll of the top must do rides in each park the vast majority of people would absolutely put TSMM on the level of those rides.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
If ranking for overall theming and story? No. If ranking on how fun it is and whether or not it's a must do ride? Yes.

I think if you did a poll of the top must do rides in each park the vast majority of people would absolutely put TSMM on the level of those rides.

In each park? Well that's very easy to do in DHS because there's only 5 options.

TSMM isn't even featured on WDW TV Must Do Disney, shown in the resort hotel rooms. Would you say Buzz is a top attraction in Magic Kingdom? I wouldn't. However, if placed in an environment where Buzz is one of the few attractions in a park, it would become by default a top attraction in that park because there's less surrounding it.

Edit: I like both of these attractions (TSMM and Buzz) Not condescending either but trying to put in perspective an environmental factor for these long lines and seemingly unbridled popularity that is supposedly "causing" these lines.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I thought that was SGE?

It's probably close.

I may be biased because I happened to be at Sea World about a month after Antarctica opened and we waited for about 2 hours to get on the ride because it kept breaking down. The nicest way I could describe it was bizarre. The only redeeming quality was the penguins at the end, but they had a penguin exhibit at the park before the ride was built so I don't count that. Considering the cost and the current state of Sea World it was a pretty epic fail.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
But even a 45-60 minute wait is half of what a wait at DHS would be for TSMM.

Just because a ride has a wait time, isnt proof that it's popular. A lot of factors, including hourly ride capacity and location, have to be considered.

TSMM is definitely not a walk-on, and it definitely has its charm, but the reason why it produces such long lines in DHS is because it's the only kid oriented ride in the entire park.
True, but the fact that people will stand in line that long to see it, is kind of a testament to it's general popularity. You don't waste that much time for something you don't like.

I still don't understand the statement that it is the only kid oriented ride in the park. What about GMR, what about the Muppets, what about the Little Mermaid, what about the ones that kids would enjoy like Indiana Jones, LMA, what about Star Tours or the Jedi Training, what about Capt. Jack Sparrow. They might not all be cartoon based but they are certainly enjoyed by kids.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
True, but the fact that people will stand in line that long to see it, is kind of a testament to it's general popularity. You don't waste that much time for something you don't like.

I still don't understand the statement that it is the only kid oriented ride in the park. What about GMR, what about the Muppets, what about the Little Mermaid, what about the ones that kids would enjoy like Indiana Jones, LMA, what about Star Tours or the Jedi Training, what about Capt. Jack Sparrow. They might not all be cartoon based but they are certainly enjoyed by kids.
Of that list only GMR and Star Tours are actually rides;)

To your point, my kids (3 and 6) loved most of those attractions (we didn't do LMA). Even my 3 year really liked Indy and GMR. Star Tours is pretty popular with kids too. I even took the older one on TT. He loved it. For really young kids (under 2) Star Tours has a height restriction and GMR, Indy and Jack Sparrow could scare them because of loud noise or darkness. But, for that age range I'm not sure how much TSMM would work either since they probably won't keep the glasses on.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Of that list only GMR and Star Tours are actually rides;)

To your point, my kids (3 and 6) loved most of those attractions (we didn't do LMA). Even my 3 year really liked Indy and GMR. Star Tours is pretty popular with kids too. I even took the older one on TT. He loved it. For really young kids (under 2) Star Tours has a height restriction and GMR, Indy and Jack Sparrow could scare them because of loud noise or darkness. But, for that age range I'm not sure how much TSMM would work either since they probably won't keep the glasses on.
I don't differentiate between rides and attractions. The point was it sounds as if there is absolutely nothing to do except Toy Story. There is plenty to do and most of them are much more rewarding then standing in line for an hour to get a 4 minute ride. That was my only meaning. I know kids like it. Well, there were a lot of things that my kids "liked" that they never got to experience because I knew it's value and also knew that other things had more value for the time spent. They lived and prospered.

Scared? Yup, I keep forgetting the generation of wimps that are currently in the system. All supported by people that think if a kid cries for a few seconds it is out and out cruelty. Somewhere and sometime in this world they are going to have to face 'scary' things and must learn to face their fears and overcome them. What safer place to learn that then in a Disney Theme Park.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I don't differentiate between rides and attractions. The point was it sounds as if there is absolutely nothing to do except Toy Story. There is plenty to do and most of them are much more rewarding then standing in line for an hour to get a 4 minute ride. That was my only meaning. I know kids like it. Well, there were a lot of things that my kids "liked" that they never got to experience because I knew it's value and also knew that other things had more value for the time spent. They lived and prospered.

Scared? Yup, I keep forgetting the generation of wimps that are currently in the system. All supported by people that think if a kid cries for a few seconds it is out and out cruelty. Somewhere and sometime in this world they are going to have to face 'scary' things and must learn to face their fears and overcome them. What safer place to learn that then in a Disney Theme Park.

And that was Walt's philosophy as well. That's why he let Bambi's mother die, and why Old Yeller met his death at the hands of his owner. Walt felt that kids need to learn how to grapple with the sadness of life; he felt that teaching such lessons belonged in films, but it had to be told in such a way that children would benefit from it, rather than just be traumatized. He was a conscientious film-maker. Isn't it a shame that creators like Walt, who respected the intelligence and innocence of children, are so few and far between in Hollywood nowadays?
 
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