DHS CARS LAND

[Beholder]

I'd suggest (probably a bit unrealistically) increasing capacity by building exciting attractions using new technology married to great properties. Use your new toys, Star Wars etc, classic properties, or, here's an idea, go original. Build and MAINTAIN great new and existing things, and people will come. Remove/replace/reimagine the things that don't seem to work and focus on innovation. Then, I humbly believe, will Disney start to see the numbers that could potentially lead to a 5th gate. WAY down the road. Look, I know people already come in droves, but if the discussion is capacity, this is just an idea for that issue.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

. . . I humbly believe, will Disney start to see the numbers that could potentially lead to a 5th gate. WAY down the road.

About 47 million guests visit WDW each year. Assuming the projected 1% growth over the next ten years, that would mean that in 2022, you'd have an extra 4 million guests coming to the theme parks. Should the economy pick-up, you'd might even have more. Potter 2.0 could draw in more guests, folks who might spend a day or two at WDW, in addition to the 47 million WDW gets each year. Plus, a fifth gate would draw in more visitors just because of the free media and interest. Maybe an extra 2-3 million for the fifth gate each year, in addition to baseline growth.

I don't think anybody here would argue that ride capacity issues have gotten worse at WDW over the past decade. When rides have long lines, and parks depend on all of them, they can't shut them down and give proper maintenance and upgrades. Splash Mountain would be a prime example.

 

[gonnichi]

How sure is everyone that DHS will be getting new attractions? Im kinda thinking its 50/50. Seeing how long it has been since each of the parks has gotten a new major unique attraction I dont see why they would change their way of operating now. FLE was put off for so long, now its finally done. Epcot just kept lossing more and more of future world. AK has been open since 1998 and it is finally getting another family ride and a new land. Now they give us Captain Jack Sparrow two years after WWHP opened. I dont expect much more then just meet and greets, attraction remakes, and the usual from TDO. I sure hope im wrong.

 

[spacemt354]

New attractions, Carsland or otherwise, might not increase park capacity as much as you'd think. To make it a full day park, being about 2/3 as big as MK . . . I think they'd need to extend into the parking lot, and/or across World Drive. Unsurprisingly, these are the official expansion plans.

Actually, The MK is the smallest park. DHS is larger than the MK. Although it might not seem that way, it is. That being said, I don't think park capacity will be an issue, especially since Carsland and the monster's inc coaster will be filling up space once used by LMA/Backlot Tour, both of which were not walking accessible to guests. Yes the streets are narrow and yes it will be packed with crowds, but for a business, since when is that a bad thing?

Mathematically, and historically, these assumptions might not be valid. If a family goes to Orlando specifically, or even just primarily for Harry Potter 2.0 . . . if they also spend a day at Disney, then Disney wins. Historically, anything that brings tourists into Orlando benefits Disney. This might not always be the case, but I think Harry Potter 2.0 will benefit the mouse.

If they spend a day at Disney, then Disney loses. That family, if they had a choice 10, 15 years ago, would have spent a day at Universal, and the rest at Disney. I know because that's what my family did, and we know a lot of other families that did similar trips. Now the tides have turned. People are spending more and more time at Universal, and less at Disney.

In what way does Disney win from that? Disney better get their act together. All these insider scoops about Carsland, Avatar, Star Wars expansions all sound great. But after thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if only 1 of those 3 actually happens over the next 5 years. And it's sad that I've come to accept that from Disney. That's not a good thing.

If Universal and comcast had those properties. I could bet you Carsland would already be under construction, Avatar would have released concept art, and long term planning for a major Star Wars expansion would be well underway. Disney has all these great properties that they severly undervalue. I mean we'll have to wait and see, but I sure hope this Carsland happens in DHS. It's such a no-brainer to me, but yet everything at Disney seems to move at a snail's pace, and benches require a major press annoucement. The idea of a huge announcement like Carsland just doesn't seem feasible, but I hold out hope that it is coming.

 

[GoofGoof]

If they spend a day at Disney, then Disney loses. That family, if they had a choice 10, 15 years ago, would have spent a day at Universal, and the rest at Disney. I know because that's what my family did, and we know a lot of other families that did similar trips. Now the tides have turned. People are spending more and more time at Universal, and less at Disney.

In what way does Disney win from that?

Increases in overall tourism in Orlando are good for Disney. If the pie grows they can maintain or possibly grow even if their share goes down. 10 or 15 years ago that same family may have gone to the beach or maybe a local park. Potter has some positive impact on WDW and certainly WDW's popularity is a big reason for Universal's success. They are both better off together than either would be alone.

 

[M.rudolf]

How sure is everyone that DHS will be getting new attractions? Im kinda thinking its 50/50. Seeing how long it has been since each of the parks has gotten a new major unique attraction I dont see why they would change their way of operating now. FLE was put off for so long, now its finally done. Epcot just kept lossing more and more of future world. AK has been open since 1998 and it is finally getting another family ride and a new land. Now they give us Captain Jack Sparrow two years after WWHP opened. I dont expect much more then just meet and greets, attraction remakes, and the usual from TDO. I sure hope im wrong.

99% sure that DHS is getting new attractions. It's no longer if but when, what and how many, from what I hear cars land will start before avatar, if it happens, actually breaks ground. The time table is basically cars land 2016/early 2017. Indy stunt show closing and replaced by a Indy ride by 2019, I haven't been told yet what ride it is at this time

 

[Timothy_Q]

DHS is sort of "land-locked" in terms of development.

Yeah, but half of what's inside DHS's boundaries are empty show buildings and unused backstage areas.
PLENTY of space for development still inside the park.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Well, the standards of diehard fans/fanbois, . . . whatever, will always be higher than what Disney does. I would like Splash to get some serious upgrades, and better upkeep in the parks, but the fact is that the parks are still making money, quite a bit actually, and steady, but certain, guest growth at the parks over the next decade means these additional guests will have to go somewhere.

We all know WDW has capacity issues, and the way to solve these issues is with more attractions, which can be added in a new land, or a fifth gate. Subtracting and adding stuff doesn't address this core issue nearly as efficiently.

Avatarland will address this issue as it will be built on largely undeveloped land not used by guests.

Disneyland, btw, has the same issue, and they are looking at both adding attractions and lands just to soak up the guests.

There is no necessity whatsoever to add these attractions in a new park! Actually nearly all arguments are against putting them in a new park. You can add them to the existing parks and they will also increase capacity. FLE adds capacity without a new park being built, Cars Land DHS would add a LOT of capacity to DHS without a new park and would only use up space where we have at the moment either empty and unused buildings or boring and not very popular attractions, Backlot Studio Tour and LMA, which both use up a lot of space but because most of this space is mostly restricted for guests, do not add a lot of capacity.There were already several maps in this thread clearly showing that you CAN build an entire Cars Land from DCA in the existing areas of LMA and the Backlot. You don't have to go outside the present park boundaries.
I also contradicted your argument that they would have to close a THIRD of DHS for building Cars Land. There is NO reason why they should do that. Actually the entire DHS could run perfectly well, not one closed attraction due to construction works, if they build Cars Land where everyone thinks it will go, Backlot and LMA, these attractions will of course be closed because they will be demolished but you say that other attractions would also have to be closed for some time, thats COMPLETELY wrong. And I am sutre, demolishing LMA and BST would have NO impact on attendance. Honestly WHO says, "Oh we have to go to DHS because they have that magnificent LMA and Backlot Studio Tour? People come to DHS because of Tot and RnRC, ST 2.0 and TSM, who cares about LMA?
And you have the increase of capacity much FASTER and CHEAPER if you build them in the existing parks because you don't need to clear completely undeveloped land, build entrances and parking lots and and and before you even build ONE new attraction.

 

[Taylor]

99% sure that DHS is getting new attractions. It's no longer if but when, what and how many, from what I hear cars land will start before avatar, if it happens, actually breaks ground. The time table is basically cars land 2016/early 2017. Indy stunt show closing and replaced by a Indy ride by 2019, I haven't been told yet what ride it is at this time

Thank you! Someone had to bring the news part of this thread back

 

[Clocker84]

Increases in overall tourism in Orlando are good for Disney. If the pie grows they can maintain or possibly grow even if their share goes down. 10 or 15 years ago that same family may have gone to the beach or maybe a local park. Potter has some positive impact on WDW and certainly WDW's popularity is a big reason for Universal's success. They are both better off together than either would be alone.

If it was anything else I would agree, but it's Potter and the Brits love Potter. That's what TDO is worried about. TDO no longer has the first crack at the Brits wallets. Now I understand most of the British come to central Florida for 1-2 weeks and would normally do WDW/Universal anyway, but like I said now TDO has to worry about losing the first shot at their wallets and a new 1,800 room hotel right next to Potter that will be very tempting for the English to stay at.

 

[Beholder]

99% sure that DHS is getting new attractions. It's no longer if but when, what and how many, from what I hear cars land will start before avatar, if it happens, actually breaks ground. The time table is basically cars land 2016/early 2017. Indy stunt show closing and
replaced by a Indy ride by 2019, I haven't been
told yet what ride it is at this time

I have to admit, I love the Indiana Jones stunt show, but, if replacing it with a great attraction is on the table, I'm all for it. The Stunt show is a little long in the tooth, and the pretense of an actual film shoot has worn thin. Any additional info would be greatly appreciated and thanks for this update.

 

[tomman710]

99% sure that DHS is getting new attractions. It's no longer if but when, what and how many, from what I hear cars land will start before avatar, if it happens, actually breaks ground. The time table is basically cars land 2016/early 2017. Indy stunt show closing and replaced by a Indy ride by 2019, I haven't been told yet what ride it is at this time

Oh fantastic ... they are addressing all of DHS issues in just 7 short years ...

I love that all of this is potentially coming but for them to d*** around with it for 7 years is ridiculous, STOP WASTING TIME ... this time issue is a major contributing factor to why the parks got stale in the first place. Do things concurrently ... there is absolutely no reason that a complete makeover of DHS, adding Carsland, MI Coaster, Indy ride, SW Cantina, and the two shows ALL shouldn't be completed by, AT MOST, late 2016.

 

[misterID]

99% sure that DHS is getting new attractions. It's no longer if but when, what and how many, from what I hear cars land will start before avatar, if it happens, actually breaks ground. The time table is basically cars land 2016/early 2017. Indy stunt show closing and replaced by a Indy ride by 2019, I haven't been told yet what ride it is at this time

This is shocking that Indy will be coming to the parks, seeing how adamant Spirit was that it wouldn't. I'd say, seeing it's TDO, it would be the dark ride clone, which isn't bad because DHS needs more dark rides.

Even now Avland is still not a sure thing? Poor AK...

And yeah, seven years is ridiculous. I swear I appreciate UNI and UC more and more each day.

 

[TropicalFig8]

I already posted this over at the Imagineer thread,but I have an idea for WIR themed attractions/land instead of Cars Land.

The land would featured 3 attractions:

Wreck-it Ralph Dark Ride -
It would be just like Mr.Toad's Wild Ride except there are 3 different tracks that separate into different rooms by meeting in Game Central Station.
Track 1 - Game: Fix-it Felix Jr / Animatronics: Wreck-it Ralph,Fix-it Felix & the Nicelanders
Track 2 - Game: Sugar Rush / Animatronics: Vanellope,Sugar Rush characters,King Candy,& Wreck-it Ralph (Felix & Calhoun too)
Track 3 - Game: Hero's Duty / Animatronics: Sergeant Calhoun,Hero's Duty soldiers, & Wreck-it Ralph (Felix maybe)

Sugar Rush Speedway -
Combination of Tommorowland Speedway/Radiator Springs Racers/Test Track. With inside and outside portions and Sugar Rush character AAs.

Hero's Duty -
This would be like Buzz Lightyear/TSM where you would be in vehicles with 1st person shooter guns and you'd shoot off cybugs on a screen. At the end,either Calhoun & Felix or Ralph & Vanellope dressed in Hero's Duty gear will tell your score like at the end of TSM.​

 

[GoofGoof]

If it was anything else I would agree, but it's Potter and the Brits love Potter. That's what TDO is worried about. TDO no longer has the first crack at the Brits wallets. Now I understand most of the British come to central Florida for 1-2 weeks and would normally do WDW/Universal anyway, but like I said now TDO has to worry about losing the first shot at their wallets and a new 1,800 room hotel right next to Potter that will be very tempting for the English to stay at.

Interesting point on the Brits. Pooh is a British chap too, but I guess he doesn’t have as much draw.

I see major hotel expansion at Universal as the biggest threat to WDW. With the way Disney markets and sells the parks they have lessened the impact of people spending a day or 2 at Uni. The biggest marketing and sales push at WDW is the free dining plan offer. Come and stay for a week and buy a 7 day park pass and you get meals for free. The revenue is locked in. When you get there if you choose to spend a day at Uni the only revenue WDW loses is possible merchandise sales. You already paid for your room, meals and park tickets. If anything, they make out better if you skip some meals and or time in the park since the costs to them go down. Even if you don’t do the meal plan if you stay on property at WDW and buy a 5 day pass instead of a 7 the cost is not much lower. Now they lose your meal and merchandise spending for a day or 2, but still get virtually the same park and hotel revenue. Why do you think they offer free dining instead of hotel discounts? Reduces the economic impact of people spending a day or 2 at Uni. If Universal has a major hotel expansion that could change the dynamic.

 

[SirLink]

I already posted this over at the Imagineer thread,but I have an idea for WIR themed attractions/land instead of Cars Land.

The land would featured 3 attractions:​

​

Wreck-it Ralph Dark Ride -​

It would be just like Mr.Toad's Wild Ride except there are 3 different tracks that separate into different rooms by meeting in Game Central Station.​

Track 1 - Game: Fix-it Felix Jr / Animatronics: Wreck-it Ralph,Fix-it Felix & the Nicelanders​

Track 2 - Game: Sugar Rush / Animatronics: Vanellope,Sugar Rush characters,King Candy,& Wreck-it Ralph (Felix & Calhoun too)​

Track 3 - Game: Hero's Duty / Animatronics: Sergeant Calhoun,Hero's Duty soldiers, & Wreck-it Ralph (Felix maybe)​

​

Sugar Rush Speedway -​

Combination of Tommorowland Speedway/Radiator Springs Racers/Test Track. With inside and outside portions and Sugar Rush character AAs.​

​

Hero's Duty -​

This would be like Buzz Lightyear/TSM where you would be in vehicles with 1st person shooter guns and you'd shoot off cybugs on a screen. At the end,either Calhoun & Felix or Ralph & Vanellope dressed in Hero's Duty gear will tell your score like at the end of TSM.​

Or instead of doing that you could actually just take Sugar Rush and fuse it radiator Spring Racer in terms of a new ride. It would solve the JL problem, Disneys problem and freak TDO out.

Oh btw I'm still increasingly finding it funny that they would place such an open ride in lightning strike capital of the world.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Or instead of doing that you could actually just take Sugar Rush and fuse it radiator Spring Racer in terms of a new ride. It would solve the JL problem, Disneys problem and freak TDO out.

Oh btw I'm still increasingly finding it funny that they would place such an open ride in lightning strike capital of the world.

I think that your forgetting that TDO's main concern is $$$. If they can still sell overpriced merch and food, they don't care.

 

[Glasgow]

Slightly off topic, but I don't think current maintenance outlay and management has much to do with the 5th Gate decision making. The 5th gate will get it's own VP, own budget, own maintenance plan, etc. Each park at the resort is run like a city, somewhat. If there is a business plan that predicts a profit (tacit or otherwise), I guarantee you it will be considered, regardless of the state of maintenance in the rest of the resort. The key here, as others have stated, is whether or not the 5th park would cannibalize attendance or generate extra income. If it's the former, then sure, it won't be built. That has much more bearing on it's likelihood than does WDW maintenance trends.

 

[cheezbat]

I can see them waiting as long as 2019 for a big Indy style E-ticket...seeing as how that'll be the parks 30th anniversary. I'm betting they'd like to build Cars Land and just coast off of that for the next number of years.

 

[HMF]

I already posted this over at the Imagineer thread,but I have an idea for WIR themed attractions/land instead of Cars Land.

The land would featured 3 attractions:​

​

Wreck-it Ralph Dark Ride -​

It would be just like Mr.Toad's Wild Ride except there are 3 different tracks that separate into different rooms by meeting in Game Central Station.​

Track 1 - Game: Fix-it Felix Jr / Animatronics: Wreck-it Ralph,Fix-it Felix & the Nicelanders​

Track 2 - Game: Sugar Rush / Animatronics: Vanellope,Sugar Rush characters,King Candy,& Wreck-it Ralph (Felix & Calhoun too)​

Track 3 - Game: Hero's Duty / Animatronics: Sergeant Calhoun,Hero's Duty soldiers, & Wreck-it Ralph (Felix maybe)​

​

Sugar Rush Speedway -​

Combination of Tommorowland Speedway/Radiator Springs Racers/Test Track. With inside and outside portions and Sugar Rush character AAs.​

​

Hero's Duty -​

This would be like Buzz Lightyear/TSM where you would be in vehicles with 1st person shooter guns and you'd shoot off cybugs on a screen. At the end,either Calhoun & Felix or Ralph & Vanellope dressed in Hero's Duty gear will tell your score like at the end of TSM.​

Wreck-It Ralph is not a strong enough property for an entire land to be based on.