DHS CARS LAND

[Pixiedustmaker]

A fifth gate would obviously increase capacity, but it's by no means a sure thing that it would increase number of visitors, at least not over the long run. A lot of people already consider DHS and Animal Kingdom 1/2 day parks. Expanding those parks to keep people in them longer, or get people to come to them more often is a much more economical option as well as less risky.

Looking at the history of WDW, adding theme parks has been a winning long term strategy. AK will be getting Avatarland, (if that goes to plot), so there's some extra capacity/draw. DHS is a bit of problem in terms of expansion.

Remember that a new theme park could possibly have Carsland, a Star Wars themed land with an E-Ticket, in addition to some Marvel rides and possibly some really creative new lands. Draw guests to see this park, and they'll spend the rest of the time visiting those half day parks.

 

[danlb_2000]

Looking at the history of WDW, adding theme parks has been a winning long term strategy. AK will be getting Avatarland, (if that goes to plot), so there's some extra capacity/draw. DHS is a bit of problem in terms of expansion.

Remember that a new theme park could possibly have Carsland, a Star Wars themed land with an E-Ticket, in addition to some Marvel rides and possibly some really creative new lands. Draw guests to see this park, and they'll spend the rest of the time visiting those half day parks.

But adding parks logically has to reach a point of diminishing returns, you can't just keep adding parks an expect that people will always come. Yes it worked in the past, but you can't do it forever. Magic Kingdom reaches capacity a couple times a year, Epcot maybe once of twice, DHS and AK almost never, this means that there is plenty of capacity in the existing parks. No need for more parks to increase capacity.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

But adding parks logically has to reach a point of diminishing returns, you can't just keep adding parks an expect that people will always come. Yes it worked in the past, but you can't do it forever. Magic Kingdom reaches capacity a couple times a year, Epcot maybe once of twice, DHS and AK almost never, this means that there is plenty of capacity in the existing parks. No need for more parks to increase capacity.

A fifth gate will be announced sooner, rather than later. You assume that a new park wouldn't draw in guests. Outside of a new big draw, WDW attendance will increase about 1% per year over the next ten years. So, in a decade, there will be 10% more guests than now. Hmmm. Even without a new park, they are going to need more capacity.

Basal Growth: 10% over a decade.
New Park Draw Potential: ?? Look at WWHP. Let's say a new park draws in a very conservative extra 3-7% to WDW's end of decade attendance, assuming construction and opening a little past mid-decade.

2022, you've got 13-17% increased WDW attendance with a new park. Maybe a lot more given the park's draw.

Read my lips: "A fifth gate is coming to WDW."

 

[danlb_2000]

A fifth gate will be announced sooner, rather than later. You assume that a new park wouldn't draw in guests. Outside of a new big draw, WDW attendance will increase about 1% per year over the next ten years. So, in a decade, there will be 10% more guests than now. Hmmm. Even without a new park, they are going to need more capacity.

Basal Growth: 10% over a decade.
New Park Draw Potential: ?? Look at WWHP. Let's say a new park draws in a very conservative extra 3-7% to WDW's end of decade attendance, assuming construction and opening a little past mid-decade.

2022, you've got 13-17% increased WDW attendance with a new park. Maybe a lot more given the park's draw.

Read my lips: "A fifth gate is coming to WDW."

But you can draw more people and increase capacity using the existing parks, without all the extra up-front and overhead of a 5th gate.

 

[marni1971]

Fifth gate? Not any time soon.

WDW has reached critical mass, as in a new park will remove visits from existing parks as opposed to adding an extra day to visit said new one.

Or rather they won't spend money to take money from existing parks.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Fifth gate? Not any time soon.

WDW has reached critical mass, as in a new park will remove visits from existing parks as opposed to adding an extra day to visit said new one.

Or rather they won't spend money to take money from existing parks.

?Never heard that term with regards to WDW. Attendance is projected to grow about 1% per year over the next decade, and WWHP will probably bring more folks into the Orlando area. As WDW draws in guests from around the world, the "ceiling" for guests attendance is pretty high.

We all know what happened when AK opened, but long term it was the right choice. Overall, WDW will need to add capacity over the next decade, or see declining profits. Women complaining over the crowds in Fantasyland in O Magazine was part of the reason FLE was built: a need for more capacity. Plus a shortened CBJ to increase capacity.

Fifth gate will happen sooner than you think!

 

[danlb_2000]

Not to mention, Disney's ticket pricing structure reduces the value of a fifth gate. If someone is currently buying a five day ticket and if a fifth gate could even entice them to stay a sixth day, Disney is only getting another $10.00 for that day's ticket. They are going to make a lot more on the food that that person will buy throughout the day then the ticket price, which they can do with an existing park.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

?Never heard that term with regards to WDW. Attendance is projected to grow about 1% per year over the next decade, and WWHP will probably bring more folks into the Orlando area. As WDW draws in guests from around the world, the "ceiling" for guests attendance is pretty high.

We all know what happened when AK opened, but long term it was the right choice. Overall, WDW will need to add capacity over the next decade, or see declining profits. Women complaining over the crowds in Fantasyland in O Magazine was part of the reason FLE was built: a need for more capacity. Plus a shortened CBJ to increase capacity.

Fifth gate will happen sooner than you think!

Havent you just confirmed what Martin said? You can efficiently and cost effectively increase capacity buy extending offerings within existing parks without the need for additional infrastructure

 

[SirLink]

?Never heard that term with regards to WDW. Attendance is projected to grow about 1% per year over the next decade, and WWHP will probably bring more folks into the Orlando area. As WDW draws in guests from around the world, the "ceiling" for guests attendance is pretty high.

We all know what happened when AK opened, but long term it was the right choice. Overall, WDW will need to add capacity over the next decade, or see declining profits. Women complaining over the crowds in Fantasyland in O Magazine was part of the reason FLE was built: a need for more capacity. Plus a shortened CBJ to increase capacity.

Fifth gate will happen sooner than you think!

When you have 4 parks, 1 transportation system and DTD all rotting away in the Florida humidity there are better things to spend money on than build another park. Just expand the current ones...

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Not to mention, Disney's ticket pricing structure reduces the value of a fifth gate. If someone is currently buying a five day ticket and if a fifth gate could even entice them to stay a sixth day, Disney is only getting another $10.00 for that day's ticket. They are going to make a lot more on the food that that person will buy throughout the day then the ticket price, which they can do with an existing park.

If you think Disney won't raise ticket prices with the fifth gate . . .

"Get used to disappointment."
Princess Bride, 1987

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

WDW doesn't need a fifth gate for current leadership to neglect. It has 4 existing parks, all of which have dire issues and neglect that need to be corrected before anything else. Lets invest instead in getting those other 4 parks (not to mention the rest of WDW property) up to proper Disney standards and expand what's already there. Maybe after getting all of the parks completely fixed up and expanded to their max potential, AND after ALL of the parks are consistently filled to the brim with people so that they can't take that capacity anymore, then MAYBE Disney should consider a fifth gate.

 

[danlb_2000]

If you think Disney won't raise ticket prices with the fifth gate . . .

"Get used to disappointment."
Princess Bride, 1987

Yes, but unless that throw out the current ticket structure, the difference between five and six days will always be pretty small.

My question for you is what is the advantage of building a fifth park as compared to expanding the existing four parks?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

No, DisneySea has both.

What is the rollercoaster in TDS called? I couldn't find it.

 

[Calvin Coolidge]

What is the rollercoaster in TDS called? I couldn't find it.

Raging Spirits.

http://www.tdrfan.com/tds/lost_river_delta/raging_spirits/index.htm

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

It never really was going to happen inside of DHS. It would be many dozens time cheaper to build Carsland elsewhere, and to upgrade DHS by adding smaller attractions, if possible. Remember, the official expansion policy for DHS put out by Reedy Creek is that expansion/redevelopment inside DHS is not being looked at. The only possible expansion would be across World Drive, or possibly expanding into DHS's parking lot and using parking garages. The later would be cheaper than moving World Drive. Folks want to pretend that DHS doesn't get about 10 million guests a year, the same as AK.

When planning for Carsland at DCA was happening, DCA was a failure, not getting even close to 10 million guests a year. DHS is making $ for WDW. They aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot and shutdown 1/4 of the park and attractions for three years.

I know that they constructed in DCA . . . but all that was lost was a parking lot and a strip mall called Sunshine Plaza. Look at Paradise Pier, even very cheap stuff is left in place rather than being torn out.

They don't need to. The only attractions which would be shutdown if the use the HUGE Backlot area are LMA *yawn* and Backlot Tour "doubleyawn", the entire rest of the park would remain operational. And if they would build on the side of Indy stunt show and Star Tours all that would be closed would be the Indy stunt show, they even could keep Star Tours operational most time.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

A fifth gate will be announced sooner, rather than later. You assume that a new park wouldn't draw in guests. Outside of a new big draw, WDW attendance will increase about 1% per year over the next ten years. So, in a decade, there will be 10% more guests than now. Hmmm. Even without a new park, they are going to need more capacity.

Basal Growth: 10% over a decade.
New Park Draw Potential: ?? Look at WWHP. Let's say a new park draws in a very conservative extra 3-7% to WDW's end of decade attendance, assuming construction and opening a little past mid-decade.

2022, you've got 13-17% increased WDW attendance with a new park. Maybe a lot more given the park's draw.

Read my lips: "A fifth gate is coming to WDW."

But WWoHP is NOT a new park, it is exactly what makes much more sense, a strategic expansion of an already existing park! Universal built it to increase the attendance of IOA and boy it did.

 

[Mike730]

Congrats, you've succeeded in derailing another thread with your fifth gate nonsense.

Read my lips: "A fifth gate is coming to WDW."

Read my words: You will be dead before the coming of a fifth gate.

 

[flynnibus]

Not to mention, Disney's ticket pricing structure reduces the value of a fifth gate. If someone is currently buying a five day ticket and if a fifth gate could even entice them to stay a sixth day, Disney is only getting another $10.00 for that day's ticket.

There is no value in the current model for another gate. They just can't monetize it well enough, and as much as the broken record in this thread talks about capacity.. we all know if that's the need, adding attractions is cheaper than adding a whole new park. But the broken record keeps on playing...

Which is why I said earlier in the thread.. the only way we see a fifth gate is if it's ticketed separately. The MYW model does not keep scaling in terms of return for Disney and still being able to charge a price people will pay universally for tickets. If Disney were to add a new park, it would be with a new ticket structure that would monetize the new gate, not just WDW as a whole. That's my prediction If you were to build a starwars park.. or similar.. you could charge separate for it and you could draw people just to see that. IMO

Look at the water parks.. that's a good example of separate admission to monetize the gate itself.. while still riding on WDW as a main draw to be there.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

There is no value in the current model for another gate. They just can't monetize it well enough, and as much as the broken record in this thread talks about capacity.. we all know if that's the need, adding attractions is cheaper than adding a whole new park. But the broken record keeps on playing...

Which is why I said earlier in the thread.. the only way we see a fifth gate is if it's ticketed separately. The MYW model does not keep scaling in terms of return for Disney and still being able to charge a price people will pay universally for tickets. If Disney were to add a new park, it would be with a new ticket structure that would monetize the new gate, not just WDW as a whole. That's my prediction If you were to build a starwars park.. or similar.. you could charge separate for it and you could draw people just to see that. IMO

Look at the water parks.. that's a good example of separate admission to monetize the gate itself.. while still riding on WDW as a main draw to be there.

I am quite sure that would spell desaster. You can definitely build a boutique park like the cancelled Disney "Night Kingdom",which has limited entrance and is aimed at a wealthy target group. When I heard about the project I was completely uninterested by and not at all surprised that they cancelled it and downwatered it to the the present Wild Africa Trek or how it is called in DAK. But a Star Wars park would be aimed at a HUGE audience and I would be so annoyed if I visit WDW, pay a lot of money for my AP or MYWT and STILL have to pay aditionally for the new Star Wars Park? You can do that with DisneyQuest, with a minor attraction that you do not exactly have to visit, I think most guests don't even know about it.
But the SW- or Lucasfilm-Park would be a major attraction and built for an attendance in the range of at least DHS and if they would charge for that I would boycott it.

And the water parks are a bad example, with the Water Park option they are included for several days and that costs, at the moment if you also take the park hopper and we never go without , less than a single entrance ticket, only 22 bucks for 10 days.