Spike-in-Berlin
Well-Known Member
Actually "kinetics" is an official term in imagineering and an integral part of Disney park design. It means movement of any kind in a park area, vehicles, machinery, water, etc.
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Davy Crockett Canoes
- Thread starter jmuboy
- Start date
Actually "kinetics" is an official term in imagineering and an integral part of Disney park design. It means movement of any kind in a park area, vehicles, machinery, water, etc.
Yeah, it's why we're trying to get rid of pinwheels and whirlygigs in Future World.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
You think? TDO seems to have left the Magic Kingdom river to rot, if my last trip in '09 on the riverboat was any indication. Magic Kingdom's Rivers of America has just one working boat, and some very tired and worn out looking scenery, and all the charm of a landscaped drainage canal.
The Disney Parks Blog has a neat little video showcasing the current eye candy along Disneyland's Rivers of America, including the first use of live horses in the Indian Village. Whether your attraction of choice is the Mark Twain Riverboat, the Sailing Ship Columbia or the Davy Crockett Explorer Canoes, there's a lot to see along Disneyland's river. http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2010/07/video-shows-changes-to-rivers-of-america/
On my last trip along WDW's Rivers of America, nothing seemed to work, and most theme elements seemed to have been abandoned by the maintenance department.
sublimesting
Well-Known Member
One word for why canoes will never be used again: Brazilians.
Can you imagine...you'd have a canoe being paddled strictly by a CM while Brazilians chanted and rocked the boart back and forth and tried to jumpoverboard to swim etc.
Can you imagine...you'd have a canoe being paddled strictly by a CM while Brazilians chanted and rocked the boart back and forth and tried to jumpoverboard to swim etc.
Tigerace81
New Member
Haha after my trip last week I have to agree with you. I heard they stay a month at times because their money is worth more over here than it is over there in Brazil.
Christi22222
Active Member
This is exactly the point that I think TDO misses, though. Folks who aren't hardcore fans might not realize what they are missing, or specifically notice a missing act or attraction, but they definitely notice how a park feels. Many many people can't put their finger on exactly what the "Disney Difference" is, but they sure do notice it! Pretty soon, you find yourself saying, "what IS the difference between WDW and Uni or a local park? What am I spending all this extra money to come here for?" In the past, the "little" things - such as good kinetic energy, happy to be there/not exhausted CM's, roaming entertainment, super insanely clean parks - made you say to yourself, "yep, worth every freakin' penny!" Just because someone doesn't know how to identify their changed "feeling" about the parks in some idiotic survey, doesn't mean they haven't noticed. And even if we do have a specific change we don't like, I take issue with folks who say to complain to customer service. I don't go on vacation to stand in line to complain to customer service! It's their JOB to figure it out and make it right when they stray from the Disney Difference. Okay, done. To sum up, I agree with everyone here.
This is exactly the point that I think TDO misses, though. Folks who aren't hardcore fans might not realize what they are missing, or specifically notice a missing act or attraction, but they definitely notice how a park feels. Many many people can't put their finger on exactly what the "Disney Difference" is, but they sure do notice it! Pretty soon, you find yourself saying, "what IS the difference between WDW and Uni or a local park? What am I spending all this extra money to come here for?" In the past, the "little" things - such as good kinetic energy, happy to be there/not exhausted CM's, roaming entertainment, super insanely clean parks - made you say to yourself, "yep, worth every freakin' penny!" Just because someone doesn't know how to identify their changed "feeling" about the parks in some idiotic survey, doesn't mean they haven't noticed. And even if we do have a specific change we don't like, I take issue with folks who say to complain to customer service. I don't go on vacation to stand in line to complain to customer service! It's their JOB to figure it out and make it right when they stray from the Disney Difference. Okay, done. To sum up, I agree with everyone here.
Sometimes it seems that TDO consider only the following question "Will making this upgrade (downgrade) cause people to come to WDW more (less) often?" They then look at surveys, and since nobody mentioned that upgrade (downgrade), conclude the answer must be "No". As a result, they don't make the upgrade because it costs money, and allow the downgrade to occur if it will save money or if it will cost money to stop it from happening.
As a result, we have the MK ROA, which are use for the Liberty Belle and the rafts -- and the rafts are just a means of transport to the island in a very small section of the river. The atmopheric exhibits are left to go stale, and most of the river is just empty and stagnant most of the day. Meanwhile, in Anaheim, the ROA has two big boats, rafts, canoes, and Fantasmic. In addition, there are often music performances on the island (on what I call the Fantasmic stage) that can be watched from across the river in New Orleans Square. Plus the atmosphere gets upgraded all the time.
So we get a Frontierland in WDW that apparently generates little revenue and is a disappointment, with guest reaction to the ROA generally being "kind of a waste of space", while DLR has a booming Frontierland/Critter Country/New Orleans Square and a river that is used and noticed by virtually all guests.
If the canoes won't work at WDW (which I don't agree with, but it's possible), then why doesn't TDO find other creative ways to use the rivers. Bring back the keelboats. Run the Tiana thing on the Liberty Belle again or use the Liberty Belle or another vessel for a dinner/Spectro or fieworks watching cruise. Have a pirate adventure for the kids. Heck, even an organized skipping stones contest now and then would be an improvement. :lol:
tirian
Well-Known Member
You think? TDO seems to have left the Magic Kingdom river to rot, if my last trip in '09 on the riverboat was any indication. Magic Kingdom's Rivers of America has just one working boat, and some very tired and worn out looking scenery, and all the charm of a landscaped drainage canal.
The Disney Parks Blog has a neat little video showcasing the current eye candy along Disneyland's Rivers of America, including the first use of live horses in the Indian Village. Whether your attraction of choice is the Mark Twain Riverboat, the Sailing Ship Columbia or the Davy Crockett Explorer Canoes, there's a lot to see along Disneyland's river. http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2010/07/video-shows-changes-to-rivers-of-america/
On my last trip along WDW's Rivers of America, nothing seemed to work, and most theme elements seemed to have been abandoned by the maintenance department.
Ah, you got me, and you're right. But you're only right because of recent changes. All of the "current eye candy" is new, and I haven't been to DL since they added those things earlier this year.
But I do agree with everyone else; ROA needs more kinetics.
SeaCastle
Well-Known Member
I'm in the minority but I disagree. I believe WDW's RoA is fine the way it is. If they cut back on some of the vegetation around Beacon Joe and the set props and maybe plussed the area a tiny bit, I'd be okay with that. But I like the river quiet like it is now...there's already enough kinetics with Splash, Big Thunder, and the Tom Sawyer Island rafts there. Adding anything else, in my opinion, would disrupt our otherwise sleepy and laid-back river. Disneyland's is too busy. I guess part of that has to do with the entire area being devoid of vegetation for Fantasmic!, but nothing compares to WDW's Rivers of America.
Nothing compares to the ruins of Pop Century Legendary Years either. But that doesn't mean Disney should leave them alone.
jk....different strokes for different folks. And I do wish DLR's ROA had more vegetation. But given that decision, the folks in Anaheim have turned it to their advantage by putting on performances on the island for the full intent they be viewed from the "mainland".
SeaCastle
Well-Known Member
I'll admit though, seeing Fantasmic! in the Rivers of America was a very enjoyable experience, more so than from the Hollywood Hills Amphitheater. But during the day, walking around the promenade is a very hot trek, one devoid of shade. But the serenity and peacefulness of Critter Country and their Splash Mountain area almost makes up for it.
MysticOrient
Member
As to contributing to the enery level in the park, I agree. There's a host of things that used to just go on that don't seem to much anymore. Barbarshop quartet roaming, the marching Band, the College All-Star Band, J.P. and the Silver Stars in Adventureland. Gunfights in Frontierland. etc.
The atmosphere, if you will.
No profit in them, of course. Just an expense
The Kids of the Kingdom!! Bring them back and PLEASE get rid of "Cosmic Ray"!! Eewww.... :hurl:
Judy
Christi22222
Active Member
I actually do understand this perspective, and on another day might even agree. Disneyland has a very different feel. I like it just as much, but in a very different way. I find myself far more in hyper park commando mode there. WDW is far more laid back and I tend to relax better. So in that sense, it's certainly reasonable to say that more kinetic energy in this section of the park would push it out of sync with the relaxed feel of MK vs. DL. However, I still think they ought to put some effort into making the area not seem completely abandoned. Too many dead ends in this area of the park, and too much overgrown vegetation. The dead ends counter the energy of splash and thunder too much. And having nothing on the river amplifies this.
ScrapIron
Member
They came very close to closing the canoes at DL. I believe it was an uproar from the CMs, especially regarding the annual races, that caused them to back off, but the public may have played a role. I paddled one once in 1969 (they weigh over 2,000 pounds empty), and that was enough even though I like canoes. However, they are an important part of the show. It's like the Main St. vehicles. It's not important if you ride, their presence is part of the show. Walt wanted a working river in DL according to history. The Skyway was unique to DL when it opened, but not really anymore, especially if you ski. Still, I liked that riding would get you some space away from the mob.
A bientot.
A bientot.
Christi22222
Active Member
Exactly! Well said!
OnWithTheShow
Member
Speaking of Main St vehicles I still havent seen one yet this summer. Has anyone?
I saw one in Paris.
Victoria
Not old, just vintage.
I saw tons in DL. I had forgotten they existed since in WDW they only run for about 5 minutes every 87 days provided that day falls on a Wednesday or involves the number 3. :lookaroun