Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Ok. I'll follow your lead and take this to a personal level, and I have no problem explaining where I am coming from, given the topic at hand. (I've tried to avoid talking or limit my remarks about the US economic picture and what has happened to the middle class and the American Dream b/c others have covered it, and being an election year, it's a political hot potato.)

For those who could care less and would avoid the wall of text, and so I don't derail the thread from the focus on attendance
I'm not yet 40 (and female, but I have a Mickey avatar). I grew up in a solidly middle-class family in the Midwest, both of my parents had a graduate degree (math) but there were 7 of us over 20 years on one income, so not upper middle class lifestyle at all. My father's family was struggling middle-class in 1940-50s NYC, 4/5 kids rec'd Master's, 2/5 worked on Wall St or related so upward mobility to the upper class. My mother's side was upper class, my grandfather went to an Ivy League school on scholarship and became a civil engineer and worked for two companies post-college, becoming President and Vice President of each of them (I don't see this happening today but you could consider John Lasseter, for example). All of my aunts and uncles had at least a Bachelor's, and all of my siblings and I do (7/7). We have achieved varying degrees of success, 4/7 including myself in business/finance/econ fields (also 2 engineers), although money was not talked about in my household growing up. Our success was not handed to us and we worked for it (by varying degrees), but we all benefited from what I would call, 'educated familial background' (one of the reasons why it's hard for first-gen college kids to be successful if they didn't have that). Despite degree inflation, I'm a strong believer in education as a path to success, but I don't think it should be the only successful pathway (eg skilled trades, military service, etc. - also in my family). Off the top of my head, most Americans have some college (think 50-60%), while ~30% graduated college. Master's level+ is at 10% range nationally (and one of my siblings has an MBA).

Standard vacation for us was driving to FL and going to WDW in 1980s and early 1990s, ie, we had a Florida vacation to beaches and springs, so not just a Disney one. About every other year or two.

I have no illusions about how unique my family story is (both success and tragedy), and my own good fortune/misfortune, nor do I judge others for their 'station in life' as I have experienced poverty as well, and fortunes change (you can't tell by looking!). When I went back to school for my bachelor's, per US Natl Edu statistics my chances of graduating were <20%, yet I graduated with honors, grad school wasn't an option for me. I apologize if it comes off as though I am being judgmental- but I have an intl economics background and it is run-of-the-mill/standard fodder to talk about it (also intl terrorism). I am intrigued by current events, and how they might impact TWDC/ WDW.

BTW, the 2008 econ crisis is already having undesirable effects on what is attainable for the current generations, eg harder to maintain middle class status due to increasing costs, and most millennials are postponing having children due to econ circumstances.

And all that tells you is about your own family, not anyone else's. It gives you zero insight into the goings-on of the Igers or into the character of the Igers (whether he would lie or his parents would lie to him.)

Drawing on your personal experiences is great. Extrapolating your personal experiences out to others is fraught with potential pitfalls. Creating a myopic viewpoint based on your personal experiences is bound to be inaccurate for other families because there are so many unaccounted for variables about which you cannot possibly be aware besides what has been published publicly (in this case apparently a position at a company.)

It is pretense and guesswork unless you knew the family personally.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
And all that tells you is about your own family, not anyone else's. It gives you zero insight into the goings-on of the Igers or into the character of the Igers (whether he would lie or his parents would lie to him.)

Drawing on your personal experiences is great. Extrapolating your personal experiences out to others is fraught with potential pitfalls. Creating a myopic viewpoint based on your personal experiences is bound to be inaccurate for other families because there are so many unaccounted for variables about which you cannot possibly be aware besides what has been published publicly (in this case apparently a position at a company.)

It is pretense and guesswork unless you knew the family personally.

No, I have not extrapolated my personal experience to Iger - I have expressed curiosity. You have glossed over my economics background, and I have acknowledged that a number of variables are taken into account when calculating affordability.

I have in no way whatsoever said - 'this is what Iger's life growing up must have been like'. I wondered aloud what it was like and how that might inform his current decision-making re: WDW.

[Edit: Asking a question is the first step before gathering evidence and reaching a conclusion. I have made no conclusions or assertions about Iger and his life, then or now, with the exception of citing his own words. I do, however, know what an upper middle class lifestyle in 1960s NYC would look like, due to economic history as well as witness accounts.]

Along with every other person in the world, my perspective is colored by my personal experience as well as formal education. And I'm capable of differentiating between the two.
 
Last edited:

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Clearly not. Or perhaps its a cultural thing, but Im uncertain why some one would feel emotional discomfort to the level of cringing based on a post on a message board about someone with no personal connection.

Or is it a tad of the RADA's?

No idea what RADA means.

OK. I don't even fully remember the original post to which I responded at this point, or exactly what I said back, and I'm not going to research it. For whatever reason, it seems to take my laptop 20 minutes to scroll up a page on this site.

Yes, cringing. When someone is making assumptions about the personal goings-on of someone else's family - whether it be Bob Iger or WDW enthusiasts who bring food into the park, it makes me cringe to read it. There is such arrogance and presumptuousness in those statements.

It's worse when there is no "I guess," or "I assume," or "maybe" but this attitude of "of course" - as if there could be no other interpretation, or that the poster is so much more in tune than the rest of us.

In this case, I believe the poster called into question Bob Iger's authenticity/honesty because they read his father's obituary or wikipedia page and deduced that the family could have afforded a DL vacation based on where his father worked, contradicting Bob's statement that they could not.

My point was: That's not enough information to judge someone. And the way in which it was presented rubbed me the wrong way.

There are so many variables at play as others have discussed. If Bob's perception was that his family "couldn't afford it" then I take him at his word, and assume that is his best recollection.

No assumptions by anyone on this board about what his family could afford carry more weight than Bob's own statement.

If he was a kid in the 60's, then chances are his parents lived through the Great Depression. Many people came out of that with a very frugal way of living that they continued their whole lives. They also must have lived through at least the second World War, which potentially had similar effects.

Notice I use phrases like "chances are" and "potentially" and I am not speaking with absolute certainty because I cannot possibly know for certain, and neither can the person who claimed to know the Iger family finances.

On top of that, I sensed a bit of a "know-it-all" attitude which always makes me cringe. People who already don't like me on this board and are probably invisible to me are familiar with that phrase coming from my fingers.

I have no beef with the person, I just tend to speak up in situations like that.

And I had no intention of going on so long about this, but apparently my previous reply did not suffice.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
No, I have not extrapolated my personal experience to Iger - I have expressed curiosity. You have glossed over my economics background, and I have acknowledged that a number of variables are taken into account when calculating affordability.

I have in no way whatsoever said - 'this is what Iger's life growing up must have been like'. I wondered aloud what it was like and how that might inform his current decision-making re: WDW.

[Edit: Asking a question is the first step before gathering evidence and reaching a conclusion. I have made no conclusions or assertions about Iger and his life, then or now, with the exception of citing his own words. I do, however, know what an upper middle class lifestyle in 1960s NYC would look like, due to economic history as well as witness accounts.]

Along with every other person in the world, my perspective is colored by my personal experience as well as formal education. And I'm capable of differentiating between the two.

I appreciate your clarification.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
And all that tells you is about your own family, not anyone else's. It gives you zero insight into the goings-on of the Igers or into the character of the Igers (whether he would lie or his parents would lie to him.)

Drawing on your personal experiences is great. Extrapolating your personal experiences out to others is fraught with potential pitfalls. Creating a myopic viewpoint based on your personal experiences is bound to be inaccurate for other families because there are so many unaccounted for variables about which you cannot possibly be aware besides what has been published publicly (in this case apparently a position at a company.)

It is pretense and guesswork unless you knew the family personally.
This is what marketing professionals do every day.

They make presumptions from economic and demographic data.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Because it appears he may be using that lack of familiarity for deceit.

I may have started this Iger imbroglio with this post: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...-about-the-claims.915152/page-33#post-7306485

So let me own up to it and put it to rest ASAP. re: NY Times article, if I remember correctly, this was the only quote by Iger in it, the quote I originally posted.

Bob Iger in a recent 6/22 NY Times article, "At Disney, Gloomy Realities Shadow a Fantasy World":

Robert A. Iger, Disney’s chief executive, alluded to this fascination [public sense of wonder for Disney theme parks - SorcererMC]
as we toured Shanghai Disneyland on June 11. “I grew up in the United States dreaming of going to Disneyland one day — unaffordable for us, by the way, and I didn’t go until I was a parent,” he said. “You now have that same dynamic here in China that existed in the ’50s and ’60s in the United States, as people started looking for more leisure activities. It’s palpable.”

The reason why this quote bothers me, and why I said that he is " 'fudging' his background " is b/c it employs 'the common man' logical fallacy - he is trying to connect with the audience as being regular or common (a la 'Disneyland was an unaffordable vacation for us'), whether it may or may not be the actual case (as stated above).

The focus of this thread is on attendance is down, and one of the theories is 'high prices' and maybe it's no longer affordable.

Additional context of Iger stating that he is considering a future in politics.

I am happy to not discuss Iger or his business leadership profile further, or to take it to the Iger out in 2018 thread, if that is where it belongs.
 

Daveeeeed

Well-Known Member
I may have started this Iger imbroglio with this post: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...-about-the-claims.915152/page-33#post-7306485

So let me own up to it and put it to rest ASAP. re: NY Times article, if I remember correctly, this was the only quote by Iger in it, the quote I originally posted.



The reason why this quote bothers me, and why I said that he is " 'fudging' his background " is b/c it employs 'the common man' logical fallacy - he is trying to connect with the audience as being regular or common (a la 'Disneyland was an unaffordable vacation for us'), whether it may or may not be the actual case (as stated above).

The focus of this thread is on attendance is down, and one of the theories is 'high prices' and maybe it's no longer affordable.

Additional context of Iger stating that he is considering a future in politics.

I am happy to not discuss Iger or his business leadership profile further, or to take it to the Iger out in 2018 thread, if that is where it belongs.
Good points, but again it doesn't deserve to be continued for this amount of time:)
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Exactly. "Affordable" is more subjective than quantifiable.
I think I read in here somewhere that you live in Ft Lauderdale. Several years ago, before the crash, the Sun Sentinal had an article about the percentage of income that South Floridians pay for their housing. I forget what the number was- but it was quite high, much higher than the national average. It's also not the only place like that.
What people perceive that a lifestyle may be and what said lifestyle can include, based on someone else's income, doesn't always equal reality.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom