Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

[SorcererMC]

There is no public face of the company since Walt IMO. It is unusual and typically unnecessary for a CEO to interface publicly (with a handful of exceptions.)

This is an expectation that has changed over time, over what the CEO role is or isn't (for Walt Disney, no question - his name and face on the company after all). Eisner was very much the public face of TWDC. I see Iger as being calculated (and also a different personality), having learned from Eisner being the face of the company and then his exit, and not making the same mistake. (Also why he keeps saying he'll be out in 2018). I think that current circumstances are the exception - there are very few comparable cases - and addressing them in a public statement is only the beginning of what they should be doing. What may not be coming across in my posts, is that I am both concerned and fascinated about what the near future holds for WDW and the Orlando community.

He has no obligation to personally reassure the public of anything

I strongly disagree with this. If not the CEO, then who? The CEO is ultimately responsible and should be held accountable (although I think this is going to fall squarely on George Kalogridis). [Edit: re: gator attack, I'm sure that there are legal limits as to what could be acknowledged publicly]. I'll give you a recent example b/c I thought it was a smart response to a public tragedy that was all over the news - the Cincinnati Zoo gorilla incident. The zoo director held a news conference to respond to the public outcry, explaining what decisions and steps were taken and why. That is leadership for today. Maybe he shouldn't have had to, but he did it b/c the future success of the organization he leads depends on it, and it shows that he is personally invested in it and the impact it has on the local community. It's what Orlando and FL officials have done following the nightclub shooting for the same reason, and to restore a sense of safety and trust.

[Edit: 'the public' = paying customers and potential future customers. Perhaps a better word would be 'stakeholders' - investors/shareholders, employees, local businesses who depend on WDW, etc. I consider their consumers stakeholders as well.]

[Edit#2: Last December, ABC aired a 'Wonderful World of Disney' special (sponsored by Target) for Mary Poppins with Dick van hosting. I think that's a reasonable option and I would want to see more of that....but having TWDC as faceless is a bad idea IMO. ]

I've gone on and on about what I think is happening and why in my other posts in this thread, and I don't have more to add here. And I appreciate others contributing b/c another's perspective is almost always useful for what I might not have considered.

 

[bhg469]

I would wager that the average, non-message board-reading prospective parkgoer probably only has a vague (if any) awareness that these projects are even in the works.

I agree with this, and the anticipation of star wars has all but wiped out most peoples thoughts of Pandora. That is going to be a great addition that unfortunately won't be noticed by the masses to the level that star wars will.

 

[flynnibus]

Good example. That's actually the main reason I waited until age 6 to take my son on a cruise. I just couldn't justify the rate when I knew he would barely eat anything. It's the same at all inclusive resorts. Drives me absolutely nuts that I'm paying an adult for a small child who doesn't eat much and definitely isn't drinking the included alcohol!!
I know there are other adults who do cruise alone with their child before that age, and are willing to pay for it. I don't think they're wrong for that- I just wasn't willing to.

The rates for the cruises are age dependent. They don't pay the same rates as adults or even the same for all kids.

 

[flynnibus]

My husband grew up in a family situation similar to Iger's.

I can believe that his family felt they couldn't afford a Disney vacation . The cost of airfare was much higher than it is now, compared to income. I took my first flight in 1970, and the same flight costs about the same now. But that was at a time when I was making less than $15,000 per year! An income of $150,000 made you part of the 1%. My husband's family (5 children) never flew anywhere - it was too expensive. and they were well off.

Driving would eat up a large portion of a limited vacation, so it was easier to spend time closer to home.

Also, vacations were not child-centric back then - they were primarily for the working adults, although destinations were usually chosen so the children would also have something to do. It would never have occurred to any of my sibs and I to decide where we would vacation - if we could have afforded to go anywhere. We didn't even have a say in day trips! My husband had the same experience - the children had no say in the destination.

I forgot to add -

The economy in the NE was not doing all that well - many factories, especially textiles, were closing. The economy in the SE was improving; many factories were opening - especially textiles. As I recall, the West Coast was also having a housing boom.

Or Simply regional vs cross country vacationing was the societal norm.

Air travel in q1960....1/6th of what it was in 1980... And nearly 1/20th of what it is in recent years

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/r...ansportation_statistics/html/table_01_40.html

I'm sure someone could come up with equations saying I can afford vacations at some xyz location in the world... Yet that won't necessarily make it on our list of vacation spots.

I'm sure I get probably vacationed at some great lodges and resorts far more expensive than dl was

 

[flynnibus]

Depends on what cruise line you are on. I took a cruise a few weeks ago and children didn't change the price, they did ask how old they were but the price was the same.

Well on Disney it does... And we're talking about Disney vacations are we not?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

There's nothing "clear" about it. You are guessing, period.

These posts are cringe-worthy to me. You don't know the circumstances, means, or mindset of the family beyond what you can google, which is very presumptuous.

Why?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Why?

I think it was pretty self-explanatory.

 

[The Mom]

Why?

The posters are implying that Iger is lying, or his parents were lying to him. Based only on what they can google, with no knowledge of the family's day to day budget, or mindset about what was or was not affordable.

 

[SorcererMC]

I am flabbergasted that posters here do not seem to understand the socio-economic differences between lower, middle, and upper class income (and quintiles) in both the historical and modern sense, as well as the implications for purchasing power. This is not directed at any one individual, so please chime in.

The question of 'is/ was a Disneyland vacation affordable' coincides with the current attendance issue, the WDW consumer base (former and present), and was addressed by Iger himself. If Iger writes a memoir, I'll be the first to pick it up.

I don't know what else to say. (I am rarely speechless).

 

[21stamps]

The rates for the cruises are age dependent. They don't pay the same rates as adults or even the same for all kids.

Not when you are a party of 2.
They are the exact same price for the first 2 travelers- regardless if the 2nd passenger is 2 months old, 3 years old, or 30 years old.

It's the same on every cruise line. Also the same with every all inclusive resort.

The only time that full "double occupancy" pricing doesn't apply is when you are a single traveler. Then you get a break on the total price.

3rd and 4th passengers are charged less than the first 2.

 

[flynnibus]

Not when you are a party of 2.
They are the exact same price for the first 2 travelers- regardless if the 2nd passenger is 2 months old, 3 years old, or 30 years old.

It's the same on every cruise line. Also the same with every all inclusive resort.

The only time that full "double occupancy" pricing doesn't apply is when you are a single traveler. Then you get a break on the total price.

3rd and 4th passengers are charged less than the first 2.

Yes and no

On a Disney cruise your room is only part of the cost equation. Yes, your party must pay for your room before all else... But the charge per person will ALSO vary once you meet the minimum cost for the room.

You are using a corner case to blanket everything. You don't get a break on hotel rooms either if you only put 1 kid and 1 adult in them.

Pay for double occupancy, and then you will see your other passengers be cheaper based not only on kid vs adult, but in age tiers as well.

 

[flyerjab]

For me, there is nothing shocking about this current turn of events really. I have been following these forums since 2010, and the number of price increases for everything pretty much across the board, coupled with the total number of somewhat ludicrous up charge events, doesn't really surprise me at all that park attendance is down ($2000/night for a bungalow?!?!?).

There is an attempt every summer that WDW marketing does, trying to showcase new experiences. Well, when all you have is a redo of Maelstrom paired with a M&G, a redo of Soarin', a new stage show at MK, a new nighttime show at DHS and nighttime hours and performers at DAK - let's face it, the RoL show not happening was a big letdown coupled with no new rides - that is nothing to write home about. For us, the best improvements this year within the whole resort were the improvements in shopping and dining at Disney Springs. That is hardly impressive for a world-class resort boasting what are purported to be the best theme parks. Don't get me wrong though, I think that the Springs area of DS is beautiful and they have really stepped up the dining experience there. They have effectively made it a part of the resort that we must visit.

I digress though. I should say that maybe this thread's existence doesn't surprise me, but I am by no means shocked that the attendance is visibly so low. Situations such as Brazil and England never help, but they just feed into the fact that Disney might have finally moved too aggressively with their price increases. And I really don't think that the mass shooting and the alligator attack have any long-lasting impact at all. To me, this comes down to money and nothing truly new to boast about this summer.

 

[Kylo Ken]

At MK today and it seems like a normal sized crowd. Wait times aren't extreme except for the usual suspects.
One thing I did notice, THE TOUR GROUPS ARE HERE! I repeat THE TOUR GROUPS ARE HERE lol plan accordingly lol

 

[Brad Bishop]

The posters are implying that Iger is lying, or his parents were lying to him. Based only on what they can google, with no knowledge of the family's day to day budget, or mindset about what was or was not affordable.

I think there are a few things that can be added to Iger's claim, I think you've touched upon one or two of them:
- Air Travel was more expensive until sometime in the early 1980s when Reagan pushed for deregulating the airlines (interesting side note: his opposition claimed that planed would be dropping out of the sky w/o government regulation! Planes didn't drop, prices did.) I remember my dad flying a lot for government work and it was always crazy expensive. Like you average family would never fly and only those were flying for government or business did.
- Interstate travel: The interstate system wasn't completed. I remember parts of it where it just ended and you had to get on state or US routes. This made travel harder / take more time.
- 1970s Oil Embargo.
- 1970s recession (pretty much the entire decade was economic crap)
- Credit cards weren't in wide use. This made travel more cumbersome in that you had to carry a bunch of cash or traveler's checks.
- The other thing to consider, specifically with Iger and his family: You make more, you spend more. They were living on Long Island which from everything I've heard has always been a posh place to live. There's expense with that - overall costs, going costs, taxes, etc.

Because of all of the above, people tended to travel more "local", like a nearby state with some special feature like mountains, lakes, or beaches instead of all the way down the coast or, in Iger's case, across the country. It's much like today how Europe, for a lot of folks, is just not someplace they think they'll ever travel to. One cool thing is that this is kind of opening up over the last 20 years or so.

I'm just saying money or not all of these things played into it. The 1970s stuff maybe just past Iger's prime time of going with his family as a kid so consider that.

 

[disneyKaiju]

One thing I did notice, THE TOUR GROUPS ARE HERE! I repeat THE TOUR GROUPS ARE HERE lol plan accordingly lol

Seriously, but hard not to notice when they do crazy chants during queue, pre-rid, post-ride, and exiting ride.

 

[seabreezept813]

The heat index (feels like) will be 110 to 115. It was in that range most of this week.

I will be happy to step in for anyone who doesn't like the heat.. I live for temps in the 90s and sadly don't have too many of those days as I live in Massachusetts... Just think of snow, and 98 degrees will sound blissful

 

[Alejandro]

Well, I take it Disney wanted attendance to drop by pricing out some families.WDW is a huge draw for south American tours, but Brazil is kinda messy, and that's the biggest market, so I can understand people not traveling or saving their cash. Also remember that Brazil has it's own mega event this year, the Olympics, so maybe some folks decided to stay closer to home.
Tour groups will always show up, that's a non brainer, many people bu into tour programs for years to pay for a Disney vacation. I'd love to see how the outlet malls are doing in the area, if they've experienced the same drop in traffic.
Smaller crowds also make the park run with less staff, so when you mix it all in: higher prices--->lower crowds----->staff cuts----->more cash for investing/bonuses

 

[The Mom]

I am flabbergasted that posters here do not seem to understand the socio-economic differences between lower, middle, and upper class income (and quintiles) in both the historical and modern sense, as well as the implications for purchasing power. This is not directed at any one individual, so please chime in.

The question of 'is/ was a Disneyland vacation affordable' coincides with the current attendance issue, the WDW consumer base (former and present), and was addressed by Iger himself. If Iger writes a memoir, I'll be the first to pick it up.

I don't know what else to say. (I am rarely speechless).

I'm not sure what you mean. I am 65, and have made the journey from poor (poverty level with no welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, etc) to upper. So I'm pretty familiar with the historical lower/middle class, as I spent 2/3 of my life there. But, I admit, I have no personal experience with the present day poor to middle class - except through my children, who are still middle class.

 

[21stamps]

Yes and no

On a Disney cruise your room is only part of the cost equation. Yes, your party must pay for your room before all else... But the charge per person will ALSO vary once you meet the minimum cost for the room.

You are using a corner case to blanket everything. You don't get a break on hotel rooms either if you only put 1 kid and 1 adult in them.

Pay for double occupancy, and then you will see your other passengers be cheaper based not only on kid vs adult, but in age tiers as well.

Yes, after the first 2 travelers. The original topic of that specific convo was a single traveler or an adult and child. Like you said, and like I mentioned during that convo, a hotel room is the same price for up to 4 occupants..unless it's an all inclusive resort- then it's "per person"

I think we are saying the same thing lol

For me personally, I didn't see the value in DCL before this year- due to my child's age, and that I would pay an adult price for him. Age 6- I'm willing to pay adult price for a child. Also we won't be utilizing the kid's club, so that was a factor as well. The same way that I wouldn't pay an adult price for him at a Beaches resort at age 2.

Some people do see the value and do it at a younger age than I did, bottom line it comes down to perceived value by an individual.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Well, I take it Disney wanted attendance to drop by pricing out some families.WDW is a huge draw for south American tours, but Brazil is kinda messy, and that's the biggest market, so I can understand people not traveling or saving their cash. Also remember that Brazil has it's own mega event this year, the Olympics, so maybe some folks decided to stay closer to home.
Tour groups will always show up, that's a non brainer, many people bu into tour programs for years to pay for a Disney vacation. I'd love to see how the outlet malls are doing in the area, if they've experienced the same drop in traffic.
Smaller crowds also make the park run with less staff, so when you mix it all in: higher prices--->lower crowds----->staff cuts----->more cash for investing/bonuses

Will crowds be larger come the end of August till Thanksgiving? That's usually the slower seasons then have higher prices / lower crowds thanksgiving till New Years ?