Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

[ford91exploder]

That would be awesome. I think a ton of adults will stay there.
We did my 30th birthday with a group of friends at IoA. I like city walk, loved Halloween Horror nights, and love rollercoasters.
I have no intention of taking my just turned 6 year old to Halloween Horror Nights though.

People can compare Disney/universal all day, but really they are not all the same travelers, a lot sure. However, people with a child/children under the age of 6 probably aren't staying 7 nights at a Universal resort. Dr Seuss can not grab that market the way Disney characters- in 4 parks-can.

We are doing one day uni/IoA- it's a lot more $ than Disney bc of the one day pass with express pass. But it's worth it to me bc of the Christmas stuff. People at Universal or in the area will probably do the same with Disney, for the same reason.

Disney does not know what a deluxe hotel is, Heck at the Hard Rock at Universal you can call the front desk and have an Amp and a axe delivered to your room so you can rock to your hearts content. Just try to get some extra soap or towels after 6 PM at a Disney hotel...

 

[Brad Bishop]

Corporate Disney's treatment of WDW shows all the earmarks of Lean manufacturing.

Essentially, corporate Disney is viewing its 'Guests' as WIP (work in progress) on an assembly line and has, for the last decade, focused on optimizing production rather than increasing production capacity to satisfy increased demand.

Funny thing though, people are not material.

(Unless you're talking about Soylent Green. )

That actually makes a lot of sense, not in terms of how you treat people but in terms of what's been going on. They see people as money-fruit and want the process maximized to squeeze the absolute most money out of each person as is possible which they see as increasing their yield.

It's why we've seen everything monetized such as parking, in an hour early for breakfast, stay an extra 3 hours for $150, up charge to meet characters at up-charged events, etc.

There is no "guest experience" in any of this. It's all about, "If we charge $x for y event can we extract more money/guest?"

It also explains stagnant parks and, "we're going for the upper-end guest now" (to them, fatter money fruit).

Re: Soylent Green:
nom nom nom nom

 

[ParentsOf4]

But are they really sold out or has Disney just pulled inventory as they've done in years-past (e.g. can't book a room but 30% of the rooms sit empty so they can lay off Mousekeepers)? They use this same strategy to staff "booked solid" restaurants where half of the tables are empty.

The exact number can be debated but unless you have an insanely popular location where customers are willing to take anything they can get, it's hard to get hotel occupancy above 93-95%.

In WDW's case, I've followed their theoretical room capacity with what they actually report and noticed a small but consistent gap between the two (~4%). Assuming regular maintenance for their 30,000 onsite rooms, this does not seem to be an unduly high number.

What Disney has been known to do when occupancy drops way down is temporarily shut down wings or buildings at its hotels to reduce costs. However, unless these are closed for 6 months or longer, Disney still counts these rooms as available in their quarterly metrics.

Either way, it's possible for Disney to show a room category as unavailable even though there are empty rooms for some or even all of a requested stay.

 

[Gatorboy]

There has been a distinct lack of the south american tour groups most of the summer. However, they were back in force this weekend when I was at MK on Sunday and Epcot on Monday. Large numbers of large groups just like we typically see most summers. There is no telling whether this was just an anomaly for the July 4th weekend but it was more like the normal pattern we see each summer vs what we've seen all this year.

most haqve been following you this weekend, I saw one group on Monday in MK

 

[Brad Bishop]

What Disney is practicing is a process called 'Value Engineering' which is a discredited process which aims to create products at the 'minimum acceptable quality' level.

It's how you get McDonald's. At one time, long, long ago, McDonald's had pretty decent food (you used to be able to see two decent-sized burger patties in a Big Mac). Let's not kid ourselves, it was still burgers and fries but it was pretty good burgers and fries. They "value engineered" it to get the maximum $/food item. Now they have crappy food. It took a few generations for the McDonald's brand to wane in the family mind and they played games like kids play ports to get families back in but they're seeing the results now of their value engineered food and brand with a year-over-year loss in sales and they're trying to figure out what to do about it which is why you see the McCafes springing up and the "all-day breakfast" deal.

They were basically riding on a kind of memory of good burgers / good times and a kind of all-American branding.

I don't know anyone who goes to McDonald's, now, for a good burger. It's generally thought of as crap by everyone but their profit/food item has been maximized! ... They're just losing sales..

There are still die-hard fans out there, of course, who think McDonalds is everything but I bet most people are like me and when they're driving down the interstate they're looking for not-McDonalds. For me it has to be a situation of, "OK, all that's in front of me is this one McDonald's at this next exit or 2 hours until something else springs up...," for me to eat there.

I think Disney has banked in the past on the generational aspect of it and actually has a good chance of losing it at this point. Lots of visitors hit WDW because their parents took them there and that cycles when their kids grow up and have kids. It's all part of the experience. When it's a very costly and bad experience, the chain that holds that generational visitation together gets severed.

The last time my daughter (22yo) went to Epcot with her mom her reaction (which used to be very positive towards Disney) was, "This is very expensive and not very good. We ate at (I forget) and it was expensive and not very good." I got from it that it wasn't an experience that would encourage her to go back (she and I had been many times up until 3 years back - this visit to Epcot was about 6 months back).

 

[donsullivan]

most haqve been following you this weekend, I saw one group on Monday in MK

Seems to indicate that it may have been an anomaly for the holiday weekend. I'll be curious if we go back to the lower than normal numbers for the rest of the summer.

 

[21stamps]

What part of the Holiday? More toward Christmas Day?

No, surprisingly the first week of December. With a check in date of 12/3.
They've been pretty much sold out since March. I did different stay lengths as well. I originally only wanted 12/3-12/6, for those dates only lake view or garden wing were available- to get a Theme park view you had to stay 4 nights. I was so annoyed, booked the lake view..then decided that I would just extend a night to get the view I wanted. I contacted a travel agent to see if she could get different results- nope. When she called they told her the same thing, length of stay requirement, and that only 1 tpv room was left for the 4 nights. So- I switched to 12/3-12/7 Then I checked online a little later, sure enough TPV was gone. I checked back periodically that week and then all the rooms were gone. Ok, the hospitality garden wing suite is still available.
Poly and GF were similar.

 

[rael ramone]

The consumers wins because they are being charged more for the same or less?

Who knew.

Maybe it's the consumers who stay home who win....

 

[ford91exploder]

Maybe it's the consumers who stay home who win....

Their wallets certainly do...

 

[WondersOfLife]

I'm guessing his point is that Disney's enjoying the advantages of the Investments it made during the eighties and nineties when it didn't have so much competition. Those Investments have now paid off big-time in that they have put Disney so far ahead that for all of universal investments has had in the past 10 years they really still are not nipping at the heels of Disney.

A very valid point, for another argument, though.. But the user was originally trying to defend WDW by listing every "addition" they've added in the past decade. You can't change the argument from "Look! Disney's added a lot!!!" to "Oh.. Er.. I mean.. Disney's really far ahead because of their past..?"

 

[21stamps]

Their wallets certainly do...

Our wallets will win if we sit home and do nothing. But we would lose in life.
What's the alternative to a Disney vacay? Atlantis, a Beaches resort? Our wallets "lose" at these places too.lol (I'm just comparing the 'don't have to leave property' places)

 

[Frankie The Beer]

Was just there for a week and while the parks did not seem as packed like they were last year, they were by no means empty and everything had moderate to substantial waits.

 

[disneyKaiju]

I just finished up a 4 day trip and everything seemed on par as far as wait times. First day I was there the wdw app was down half the day also

 

[networkpro]

I for one applaud y'alls holding off any new visits to WDW, that'll mean a more enjoyable experience for our next two trips this year after the heat breaks. Could I encourage y'all a bit more ?

 

[Uncle Theodore]

Some faithful Disney fans are doing Universal instead.

This is us. Believe we have gone 9 times in the past 13 years, including a string of 6 years in a row. After our last trip in 2015 I was exhausted and quite frankly burned out on Disney. My daughter, who's 12, convinced us to try Universal. We went over spring break, had an absolute blast and it was stress free! A couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that I would like to plan a long 7+ day trip to Disney next summer my daughter said, "I'd rather go to Universal". My wife says she feels like we are "cheating" on Disney, but I don't see us going back to the World any time soon. Unless we tie in a day or two for Disney on the back end of a Universal trip. Which is kinda the reverse of what many of the Disney faithful do..

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I for one applaud y'alls holding off any new visits to WDW, that'll mean a more enjoyable experience for our next two trips this year after the heat breaks. Could I encourage y'all a bit more ?

Just wait until the next round of cuts because of the attendance collapse.

 

[21stamps]

This is us. Believe we have gone 9 times in the past 13 years, including a string of 6 years in a row. After our last trip in 2015 I was exhausted and quite frankly burned out on Disney. My daughter, who's 12, convinced us to try Universal. We went over spring break, had an absolute blast and it was stress free! A couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that I would like to plan a long 7+ day trip to Disney next summer my daughter said, "I'd rather go to Universal". My wife says she feels like we are "cheating" on Disney, but I don't see us going back to the World any time soon. Unless we tie in a day or two for Disney on the back end of a Universal trip. Which is kinda the reverse of what many of the Disney faithful do..

I think it's the natural progression. If people are still doing an annual week Disney only vacation when their youngest is 12 - they aren't doing it for the kids. There's so much more in Orlando for that age bracket than "just" Disney.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

This is us. Believe we have gone 9 times in the past 13 years, including a string of 6 years in a row. After our last trip in 2015 I was exhausted and quite frankly burned out on Disney. My daughter, who's 12, convinced us to try Universal. We went over spring break, had an absolute blast and it was stress free! A couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that I would like to plan a long 7+ day trip to Disney next summer my daughter said, "I'd rather go to Universal". My wife says she feels like we are "cheating" on Disney, but I don't see us going back to the World any time soon. Unless we tie in a day or two for Disney on the back end of a Universal trip. Which is kinda the reverse of what many of the Disney faithful do..

4 days at UOR + 1 day at MK is about right for a relaxing vaca.

 

[21stamps]

4 days at UOR + 1 day at MK is about right for a relaxing vaca.

We have very different ideas of "relaxing"!! Lol

Put me on a beach drinking rum from a coconut while my kid is building a sandcastle next to me. That's my "relaxing".lol. Orlando- fun, but hectic.

 

[networkpro]

Just wait until the next round of cuts because of the attendance collapse.

I'll bet that the economy collapses quicker.