Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Lilofan]

To be fair, CMS relaxed the licensing and credentialing guidelines for the pandemic. To be honest, I don’t know if it’s gone back to normal yet or not, although the normal guidelines do allow the same relaxation during emergency crisis events. But true, for any nationwide crisis, there isn’t enough to go around.

My main point was healthcare organizations have been suffering from understaffing for many years before the pandemic, due to their own actions. The pandemic has just made it headline news. It should have been all along.

You should know that when hospitals have staffing issues and or an aging workforce that retires or leaves, enter immigrant nurses being brought over to the USA courtesy of staffing agencies to fill job openings.

 

[crawale]

But the majority of hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated. I don't blame young people. I blame people who won't get the shot and insist on living life as if they have. If the age ranges happens to line up (and hospitalization show they are), then the fact they are young is just another descriptor. The presenting problem isn't their youth, but their unwillingness to get vaccinated or engage in other measures.

Nothing is 100% safe - true. Absolutely true. But the numbers don't lie - the dangers are among the unvaccinated.

Just out of curiosity - if a person has had and recovered from COVID and now has natural immunity do you count them among the unvaccinated or the vaccinated?

 

[Timmay]

A lot of jobs required people to go into crisis mode under some circumstances, but no one should ever be expected to operate like that long term.

Hospitals are required annually to complete an HVA(Hazard Vulnerability Analysis). Basically it’s ranks emergencies it may encounter like floods, utility outages, pandemics, shootings, etc., by calculating low probability with high risk, high probability with low risk…on an on, vs how prepared they are for such events and planning accordingly. Some hospitals have managed very effectively to go into crisis mode 24/7 for the past 18 months because they were prepared due to planning and not making assumptions of something being a non existent probability.

 

[The Mom]

If some of you suddenly find yourselves banned from participating in this thread it is not due to your POV but how you are expressing it. And it may not be for one specific post but rather multiple posts that might get by independently but together show a disregard for the rule to disagree in a civil, respectful manner - regardless of how you feel.

 

[monothingie]

The side effects of a lot of people getting sick...

- Hospitals start to get overloaded causing...
- you non-emergency surgery to be postponed
- you are prevented from visiting loved ones in the hospital
- you may end up getting sub-standard care if you end up in the hosptial for other reasons
- you may have long wait if you end up in the emergency room for other reasons.

- If your co-workers get stick you may have to take on some of their work while they are out
- If workers are sick you could get poor service from companies you deal with
- Sick workers and shut downs impact the supply chain for all kinds of goods making things hard to get, or more expensive.

This is just a few ways unvaccinated people getting sick could impact you and I am sure there are plenty I can't think of.

Each of the examples you have sited are extreme what if scenarios that do not reflect the reality of the situation. The overwhelming majority of hospitals are more than capable of handling demand. In instances where there is a capacity issue, it may be more related to inherent capacity issues that have always existed but are exacerbated by an increased demand. Sort of like the notion that it’s alarming to have a high percentage of ICU beds occupied, when it has always been the case that ICU occupancy rates are always high. Substandard care or rationing is not occurring.

With regards to workforce/economic considerations. Let’s talk about an even greater disruptor, inflation brought about by massive government spending. But forgetting that and going back to shortages. The shortages are the result of global trade being totally disrupted by government closing borders and making it difficult to get our widgets we need from overseas into our hands. Places like China don’t care about Covid in the workforce, they care about quotas and output.

 

[danlb_2000]

Each of the examples you have sited are extreme what if scenarios that do not reflect the reality of the situation. The overwhelming majority of hospitals are more than capable of handling demand. In instances where there is a capacity issue, it may be more related to inherent capacity issues that have always existed but are exacerbated by an increased demand. Sort of like the notion that it’s alarming to have a high percentage of ICU beds occupied, when it has always been the case that ICU occupancy rates are always high. Substandard care or rationing is not occurring.

With regards to workforce/economic considerations. Let’s talk about an even greater disruptor, inflation brought about by massive government spending. But forgetting that and going back to shortages. The shortages are the result of global trade being totally disrupted by government closing borders and making it difficult to get our widgets we need from overseas into our hands. Places like China don’t care about Covid in the workforce, they care about quotas and output.

I don't believe for a second that I am going to get the same level of care in an ICU that is at capacity then in one that is operating at a reasonable capacity.

... and borders are closing because of the pandemic. Glad to see you agree with me that the pandemic is having and impact on you even through you are vaccinated.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Each of the examples you have sited are extreme what if scenarios that do not reflect the reality of the situation. The overwhelming majority of hospitals are more than capable of handling demand. In instances where there is a capacity issue, it may be more related to inherent capacity issues that have always existed but are exacerbated by an increased demand. Sort of like the notion that it’s alarming to have a high percentage of ICU beds occupied, when it has always been the case that ICU occupancy rates are always high. Substandard care or rationing is not occurring.

This is happening now in Central Florida with AdventHealth which includes AdventHealth Orlando, one of the largest hospitals in the country, which is only a short drive from Orlando Regional Medical Center, an even larger hospital.

 

[willtravel]

... and borders are closing because of the pandemic.

Where?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I thought Disney World theme parks were supposed to be closed

I was saying at all times hospitals and Disney world should be over staffed.

I’m not 100% sure what the wdw parks should be doing right now. I’m glad they went back to indoor masks but not bringing back distancing and limited capacity seems like an interesting call to make.

I still really want to visit in September but not sure how comfortable I am about sitting in the contemporary convention center for hours at a time with a large group. :-/

 

[monothingie]

... and borders are closing because of the pandemic. Glad to see you agree with me that the pandemic is having and impact on you even through you are vaccinated.

Those borders closed at the onset. You now have governments being harangued for their lack of responsiveness by industry to reopen things as it is creating a major impact for them.

But to answer the question me being a vaccinated person my chances of getting Covid from an unvaccinated person are very low. My chances of being becoming seriously ill or dying are significantly lower than that. Less than .02% I believe.

 

[monothingie]

I don't believe for a second that I am going to get the same level of care in an ICU that is at capacity then in one that is operating at a reasonable capacity.

You should visit a city hospital in NYC on a busy day then.

 

[Lilofan]

Where?

You are not aware that the USA is not accepting travelers from some countries coming from Asia and Europe? Sounds like our border is closing to them .

 

[Timmay]

I was saying at all times hospitals and Disney world should be over staffed.

That just simply isn’t possible for hospitals. They would go out of business. I would suspect the same for a Disney park.

 

[drizgirl]

I was saying at all times hospitals and Disney world should be over staffed.

That's just not going to happen pretty much anywhere in private business these days.

 

[Timmay]

I don't believe for a second that I am going to get the same level of care in an ICU that is at capacity then in one that is operating at a reasonable capacity.

... and borders are closing because of the pandemic. Glad to see you agree with me that the pandemic is having and impact on you even through you are vaccinated.

ICU’s need to be at capacity to make any kind of money. If an ICU at any hospital, save for authorized Critical Access facilities, drops below 96%, the CFO tends to panic. It’s just not financially sustainable.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Each of the examples you have sited are extreme what if scenarios that do not reflect the reality of the situation. The overwhelming majority of hospitals are more than capable of handling demand. In instances where there is a capacity issue, it may be more related to inherent capacity issues that have always existed but are exacerbated by an increased demand. Sort of like the notion that it’s alarming to have a high percentage of ICU beds occupied, when it has always been the case that ICU occupancy rates are always high. Substandard care or rationing is not occurring.

With regards to workforce/economic considerations. Let’s talk about an even greater disruptor, inflation brought about by massive government spending. But forgetting that and going back to shortages. The shortages are the result of global trade being totally disrupted by government closing borders and making it difficult to get our widgets we need from overseas into our hands. Places like China don’t care about Covid in the workforce, they care about quotas and output.

If a hospital is overrun, substandard care will always occur, mainly because you won't be able to get the ancillary services and testing patients need in a timely fashion. You can't just snap your fingers and grow another CT scanner and the techs needed to staff it, for example. This has a knock-off effect of delaying discharges, which further exacerbate capacity issues, and the invitable complications that start to accumulate (DVTs, falls, nosocomial infection, etc.) the longer a patient stays in the hospital.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the US gov't never closed the ports and the borders remained open to trade (I still see just as many Canadian-registered tractor trailers here in northern Vermont as always, but now rarely see cars with Canadian plates). But I seem to recall the port of Long Beach suffering huge backlogs after a COVID outbreak amongst the port workers. I believe this was before the vaccines were authorized, but if an insufficient number of the workers get vaccinated, it could easily happen again.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

That just simply isn’t possible for hospitals. They would go out of business. I would suspect the same for a Disney park.

“Anything can happen if you let it” - Mary Poppins.

Disney Parks used to be over staffed and they never went out of business.

 

[Heppenheimer]

ICU’s need to be at capacity to make any kind of money. If an ICU at any hospital, save for authorized Critical Access facilities, drops below 96%, the CFO tends to panic. It’s just not financially sustainable.

That sounds a bit extreme. Even when I rotated at Penn and Jefferson as a student, the ICU's rarely topped off above about 75% of capacity.

The only hospital I've worked at where the MICU and SICU were consistently filled was old Walter Reed during the surge in Iraq.

At my last job as a hospitalist, the 12 bed ICU averaged about 5 patients at any given time, although I think that hospital may have been critical access.

 

[The Mom]

That sounds a bit extreme. Even when I rotated at Penn and Jefferson as a student, the ICU's rarely topped off above about 75% of capacity.

The only hospital I've worked at where the MICU and SICU were consistently filled was old Walter Reed during the surge in Iraq.

At my last job as a hospitalist, the 12 bed ICU averaged about 5 patients at any given time, although I think that hospital may have been critical access.

The last time I worked in a hospital (decades ago) the ICUs were almost always full, and in report the patients who could be transferred out in an emergency were always listed. This was the only major trauma hospital in a small state, with the next trauma hospital being an hour away, so my experience may have been different.

Also, patients stayed in ICUs - and hospitals in general - longer in those days. The hospital had 3 ICUs in the main hospital- Medical, Surgical, and Coronary Care, with a PICU in another building. No OB service available - those patients went to a different hospital across town, but an OB hospital was built adjacent to the original hospital since I've been gone.

 

[Timmay]

That sounds a bit extreme. Even when I rotated at Penn and Jefferson as a student, the ICU's rarely topped off above about 75% of capacity.

The only hospital I've worked at where the MICU and SICU were consistently filled was old Walter Reed during the surge in Iraq.

At my last job as a hospitalist, the 12 bed ICU averaged about 5 patients at any given time, although I think that hospital may have been critical access.

75% loses money. It just does in the vast majority of cases. Hospitals may make that up elsewhere, but I will tell you there was probably some gnashing of teeth going on.

The Critical Access facilities have to keep their numbers down to continue to receive government funding.

Basically, the whole thing is a giant mess.