Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Heppenheimer]

75% loses money. It just does in the vast majority of cases. Hospitals may make that up elsewhere, but I will tell you there was probably some gnashing of teeth going on.

The Critical Access facilities have to keep their numbers down to continue to receive government funding.

Basically, the whole thing is a giant mess.

Maybe it's because I've mostly worked at smaller facilities, but once the patient is safely off a vent, pressors, an insulin or rate control drip, there's no reason to keep them in the ICU. Even our cath patients routinely went straught to general telemetry after the procedure, barring the rare complication or hemodynamic instability.

 

[Timmay]

Maybe it's because I've mostly worked at smaller facilities, but once the patient is safely off a vent, pressors, an insulin or rate control drip, there's no reason to keep them in the ICU. Even our cath patients routinely went straught to general telemetry after the procedure, barring the rare complication or hemodynamic instability.

Large facilities do suffer at getting patients onto step down care units. Alarmingly so. Again, that’s due to routinely being understaffed on those units.

 

[Nubs70]

You clealy do not work in health care or have any idea what you are talking about. I have never worked a hospital that could fill all of its advertised vacancies. There simply isn't this excess pool of available skilled medical labor that you imagine could be scaled up in a matter of months.

As an example, I generally recieve about two dozen job solicitations from head hunters on a daily basis. Most of the nurses I work with receive the same. Sometimes, I get the same job advertised by multiple recruiters for months.

Finally, about half of the physicians you see making rounds aren't even employed directly by the hospital. They have admitting privileges, but get paid a service fee for each patient they see, who are usually their patients on the outside.

And have the insurance deductibles to prove it.

 

[GoofGoof]

No not really. , but everything that has been put out by relevant authorities says that the impacts, if there are any, are minimal at worst.

. If you know you will never get to 100% vaccination and the vaccine is safe and effective, where are we going with this continual malarkey that the unvaccinated pose a risk? Does it go away when we reach unattainable percentages like 80% 90% or 100%?

I hear what you are saying and agree to an extent but look at the situation going on right now. I’m fully vaccinated but this delta outbreak is directly impacting me in many ways not related to breakthrough infections. Even though I’m not overly concerned I will get sick I would still have to wear a mask on Splash Mountain at WDW as well as when I’m at work now too. I still have to worry about my unvaccinated son who isn’t eligible yet getting Covid. I have to worry they will switch back to virtual school now too. We cannot just allow this to continue unchecked because we feel safe being fully vaccinated. We are being forced to change our activity for the common good and I’m OK with that. So the unvaccinated pose a risk to my return to normal. I got the vaccine, I followed the rules, I want my life back and I’m sick of hearing the unvaccinated talk about their rights And their choice. You are either part of society or you aren’t. It’s not about you.

As far as your question on when it goes away, the simple answer is when we get enough people vaccinated. We won’t know what that number is until we hit it. Don’t be fooled by the hype of herd immunity being unreachable or needing 95%+ vaccinated. Nobody actually knows this as a fact but it makes for great click bait headlines. Some people don’t want to give up the fight so it’s a dream for them to never be able to reach herd immunity and see this end. They want to continue the fight.

So what’s the plan? Well we tried plan A which was the full carrot approach with no stick and allowed everyone the free choice to make the right decision and get the vaccine on their own. That failed. Too many people thought they could have their cake and eat it too and stay in the unvaccinated group but enough other people would get vaccinated that they’d get their normal life back anyway (see May 2021). So we move to plan B which involves more of a stick approach with vaccine requirements for employment and limited vaccine passports for certain public activity. That has already started but should ramp up when the FDA issues full approval for the Pfizer vaccine. If the trend continues many more employers will embrace this plan and I hope the CDC and current administration would actually publicly recommend it as well. They cannot mandate employers do this but if the CDC recommends all employers require full vaccination for employees to return to physical work that makes it much easier for employers to require it.

So back to the question of when. I don’t know when we will get to enough people vaccinated, but now is not the time to throw our hands up and quit. We tried plan A and now are on to plan B. Will it work? I think it has a good shot, but I thought plan A might work too (and could have if a much more contagious variant didn’t pop up). At a minimum we cannot just abandon the vaccine effort before all kids are eligible for the vaccine so we are in this phase at least the rest of this year. So we try plan B and hope it works and if we are having this discussion again in January then it may be time to consider just “learning to live with the virus”. There’s no reason why once the vaccines are over a year old and proven safe and effective that we cannot reach 80-90% of the population vaccinated and the rest will likely be naturally immune by then. We haven’t exhausted all of our carrots and sticks yet.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Just curious... why is the Pfizer vaccine going to be the first one to get full FDA approval?

 

[DisneyFan32]

I hear what you are saying and agree to an extent but look at the situation going on right now. I’m fully vaccinated but this delta outbreak is directly impacting me in many ways not related to breakthrough infections. Even though I’m not overly concerned I will get sick I would still have to wear a mask on Splash Mountain at WDW as well as when I’m at work now too. I still have to worry about my unvaccinated son who isn’t eligible yet getting Covid. I have to worry they will switch back to virtual school now too. We cannot just allow this to continue unchecked because we feel safe being fully vaccinated. We are being forced to change our activity for the common good and I’m OK with that. So the unvaccinated pose a risk to my return to normal. I got the vaccine, I followed the rules, I want my life back and I’m sick of hearing the unvaccinated talk about their rights And their choice. You are either part of society or you aren’t. It’s not about you.

As far as your question on when it goes away, the simple answer is when we get enough people vaccinated. We won’t know what that number is until we hit it. Don’t be fooled by the hype of herd immunity being unreachable or needing 95%+ vaccinated. Nobody actually knows this as a fact but it makes for great click bait headlines. Some people don’t want to give up the fight so it’s a dream for them to never be able to reach herd immunity and see this end. They want to continue the fight.

So what’s the plan? Well we tried plan A which was the full carrot approach with no stick and allowed everyone the free choice to make the right decision and get the vaccine on their own. That failed. Too many people thought they could have their cake and eat it too and stay in the unvaccinated group but enough other people would get vaccinated that they’d get their normal life back anyway (see May 2021). So we move to plan B which involves more of a stick approach with vaccine requirements for employment and limited vaccine passports for certain public activity. That has already started but should ramp up when the FDA issues full approval for the Pfizer vaccine. If the trend continues many more employers will embrace this plan and I hope the CDC and current administration would actually publicly recommend it as well. They cannot mandate employers do this but if the CDC recommends all employers require full vaccination for employees to return to physical work that makes it much easier for employers to require it.

So back to the question of when. I don’t know when we will get to enough people vaccinated, but now is not the time to throw our hands up and quit. We tried plan A and now are on to plan B. Will it work? I think it has a good shot, but I thought plan A might work too (and could have if a much more contagious variant didn’t pop up). At a minimum we cannot just abandon the vaccine effort before all kids are eligible for the vaccine so we are in this phase at least the rest of this year. So we try plan B and hope it works and if we are having this discussion again in January then it may be time to consider just “learning to live with the virus”. There’s no reason why once the vaccines are over a year old and proven safe and effective that we cannot reach 80-90% of the population vaccinated and the rest will likely be naturally immune by then. We haven’t exhausted all of our carrots and sticks yet.

As USA will have fully vaccianted people by end of the year or early 2022. As the future variants will be less likely dangerous as no longer a threat anymore. @GoofGoof

 

[GoofGoof]

Just curious... why is the Pfizer vaccine going to be the first one to get full FDA approval?

They were the first to complete their trial so are the first to file. They needed 6 months of data to begin the process of filing for full approval.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

They were the first to complete their trial so are the first to file. They needed 6 months of data to begin the process of filing for full approval.

I thought moderna and J&J were released in the USA about the same time?

 

[GoofGoof]

As USA will have fully vaccianted people by end of the year or early 2022. As the future variants will be less likely dangerous as no longer a threat anymore. @GoofGoof

In theory, the more people vaccinated the less of a threat any future variant is. If we didn’t have half the population fully vaccinated at this point we’d be in full stay at home right now. Thank God that’s not the case.

 

[GoofGoof]

I thought moderna and J&J were released in the USA about the same time?

Moderna was less than a month behind. They also filed the paperwork and are expected to have full approval by end of Sept at the latest. JnJ got EUA at the end of Feb so they should have the data to apply for full authorization soon. To my knowledge they haven’t formally applied yet.

 

[danlb_2000]

Where?

For one example, the border between Singapore and Malaysia. My company has a factory in Singapore and a lot of the workers live in Malaysia. When the border closed a lot of them decided to remain in Singapore so they could continue to work.

 

[danlb_2000]

Those borders closed at the onset. You now have governments being harangued for their lack of responsiveness by industry to reopen things as it is creating a major impact for them.

But to answer the question me being a vaccinated person my chances of getting Covid from an unvaccinated person are very low. My chances of being becoming seriously ill or dying are significantly lower than that. Less than .02% I believe.

... and my point is, you are being impacted by people who choose not to be vaccinated in ways other then your health.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Just curious... why is the Pfizer vaccine going to be the first one to get full FDA approval?

Because it’s the best one?

 

[monothingie]

... and my point is, you are being impacted by people who choose not to be vaccinated in ways other then your health.

We’re talking past each other at this point. People in countries where our supply lines originate from are not choosing to not become vaccinated, they don’t have access to any vaccinations.

 

[danlb_2000]

If a hospital is overrun, substandard care will always occur, mainly because you won't be able to get the ancillary services and testing patients need in a timely fashion. You can't just snap your fingers and grow another CT scanner and the techs needed to staff it, for example. This has a knock-off effect of delaying discharges, which further exacerbate capacity issues, and the invitable complications that start to accumulate (DVTs, falls, nosocomial infection, etc.) the longer a patient stays in the hospital.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the US gov't never closed the ports and the borders remained open to trade (I still see just as many Canadian-registered tractor trailers here in northern Vermont as always, but now rarely see cars with Canadian plates). But I seem to recall the port of Long Beach suffering huge backlogs after a COVID outbreak amongst the port workers. I believe this was before the vaccines were authorized, but if an insufficient number of the workers get vaccinated, it could easily happen again.

i don't believe any of the US borders were closed to trade, but I am not sure about other countries. Even without border closings the pandemic has had a impact on the global supply chain. For example we are still wrestling with a shipping container "shortage". Not really a shortage, but disruptions in the supply chain prevented empty containers from flowing back to where they are needed.

 

[Virtual Toad]

But there is always the other option right?

We can round them up and place them into camps and forcibly inject them against their will.

This comment is inappropriate and unconstructive, not only to the conversation at hand, but also to what should be a common search for solutions.

Absolutely no one is calling for this— and to throw it out there is cynical, completely uncalled for fear-mongering. Which is ironic to say the least.

Vaccines, masks and social distancing have been our strongest weapons against COVID. Choosing not to vaccinate or take sensible precautions when necessary puts others’ lives at risk and prolongs the suffering and stress for everyone. Full stop.

That is what we should be focused on. Not conspiratorial comments intended to sow discord and chaos and divert the debate from the facts at hand.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and allowed to express it. But let’s remember that people have died and are continuing to suffer. Let’s please try to put the harsh rhetoric aside and figure out a way to help each other get through this together.

 

[Timmay]

This comment is inappropriate and unconstructive, not only to the conversation at hand, but also to what should be a common search for solutions.

Absolutely no one is calling for this— and to throw it out there is cynical, completely uncalled for fear-mongering. Which is ironic to say the least.

Vaccines, masks and social distancing have been our strongest weapons against COVID. Choosing not to vaccinate or take sensible precautions when necessary puts others’ lives at risk and prolongs the suffering and stress for everyone. Full stop.

That is what we should be focused on. Not conspiratorial comments intended to sow discord and chaos and divert the debate from the facts at hand.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and allowed to express it. But let’s remember that people have died and are continuing to suffer. Let’s please try to put the harsh rhetoric aside and figure out a way to help each other get through this together.

Publicly shaming and calling the unvaccinated stupid also isn’t the way to go. Sadly, we are seeing a lot of that.

The vaccinated are angry. That's understandable but unproductive, health experts say

The resurgence of COVID-19 in the U.S. can be blamed on the unvaccinated, but health experts say blame doesn't help end the pandemic.

www.usatoday.com

 

[DisneyFan32]

Publicly shaming and calling the unvaccinated stupid also isn’t the way to go. Sadly, we are seeing a lot of that.

The vaccinated are angry. That's understandable but unproductive, health experts say

The resurgence of COVID-19 in the U.S. can be blamed on the unvaccinated, but health experts say blame doesn't help end the pandemic.

www.usatoday.com

Ugh please unvaccinated people, GAVE UP GET A VACCINE AND WEAR A MASK!

 

[The Mom]

This comment is inappropriate and unconstructive, not only to the conversation at hand, but also to what should be a common search for solutions.

Absolutely no one is calling for this— and to throw it out there is cynical, completely uncalled for fear-mongering. Which is ironic to say the least.

Vaccines, masks and social distancing have been our strongest weapons against COVID. Choosing not to vaccinate or take sensible precautions when necessary puts others’ lives at risk and prolongs the suffering and stress for everyone. Full stop.

That is what we should be focused on. Not conspiratorial comments intended to sow discord and chaos and divert the debate from the facts at hand.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and allowed to express it. But let’s remember that people have died and are continuing to suffer. Let’s please try to put the harsh rhetoric aside and figure out a way to help each other get through this together.

One would hope that we have evolved beyond doing this - but there are still people alive who remember US citizens being removed from society for their own good, and the safety of society.

 

[monothingie]

This comment is inappropriate and unconstructive, not only to the conversation at hand, but also to what should be a common search for solutions.

When you have the level of demonization going around traditional and social media towards the unvaccinated, at what point does this line of thought become justified and the norm. It is a scary time for personal liberty.