Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[carolina_yankee]

In 2021 we still have a virus spreading and filling up hospitals. Keeping Disney world open is ignoring the obvious reality.

Again, what is the remedy for the economic devastation that will result? You'r not just closing Disney World - you're closing, at a minimum, all theme parks in Florida and any other mass gathering place if you are going to be logically consistent. You are then destroying the ancillary businesses unless you prop them up with grants of some kind.

Meanwhile, over here on a table, is a little syringe with a vaccine that can avoid that.

I'll be willing to shut things down for six weeks *if* we require every unvaccinated person to get a shot or put on a tracking bracelet and stay under house arrest until they get vaccinated. One extreme deserves another.

In the meantime, simply requiring people to mask, encouraging vaccines, monitoring vaccine status, and reducing capacity will keep people employed and safe.

 

[carolina_yankee]

Honestly that’s just the typical nonsense excuse, blame the youth. You do not get exploding cases by a handful of people not wearing masks correctly.

But you have 72% of the population fully vaccinated. Which is it? Did they not take their 3rd or 4th or 5th Booster?

Perhaps, and it’s hard to admit it for some, that all our mitigation strategies help but will never be comprehensive enough to beat this virus. Perhaps a strategy of management and learning to live with and assume the risks associated with it would be more realistic, rather than this imbecilic notion of Covid 0.

But the majority of hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated. I don't blame young people. I blame people who won't get the shot and insist on living life as if they have. If the age ranges happens to line up (and hospitalization show they are), then the fact they are young is just another descriptor. The presenting problem isn't their youth, but their unwillingness to get vaccinated or engage in other measures.

Nothing is 100% safe - true. Absolutely true. But the numbers don't lie - the dangers are among the unvaccinated.

 

[carolina_yankee]

If you read past the headlines, you’ll see there is no contradiction. From the first article you circled:

​

The organisers recorded 404 Games-related infections since July 1. They carried out close to 600,000 screening tests with the infection rate of 0.02%.​

The situation inside the "bubble" stood in sharp contrast to outside, with a surge in infections fuelled by the Delta variant hitting daily records and for the first time crossing 5,000 in the host city, threatening to overwhelm Tokyo's hospitals.​

In other words, the Olympics seem not to have contributed, as feared, to Japan’s COVID crisis, but that crisis, which was already getting bad before the games began, continues to worsen.

Wait, you mean a concerted vaccination, testing, masking and education effort worked?!!!! Imagine!

 

[danlb_2000]

Moth cells are used in the production of Novavax. People will be worried about that, too. "It's gonna turn you into Mothra."

You say that like it would be a bad thing.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I’ll break it down for you.

Hospitals are unwilling or unable to pay for more staffing because it will cause them to loose money. Our healthcare system is a for profit system.

Someone has to pay for it.

You clealy do not work in health care or have any idea what you are talking about. I have never worked a hospital that could fill all of its advertised vacancies. There simply isn't this excess pool of available skilled medical labor that you imagine could be scaled up in a matter of months.

As an example, I generally recieve about two dozen job solicitations from head hunters on a daily basis. Most of the nurses I work with receive the same. Sometimes, I get the same job advertised by multiple recruiters for months.

Finally, about half of the physicians you see making rounds aren't even employed directly by the hospital. They have admitting privileges, but get paid a service fee for each patient they see, who are usually their patients on the outside.

 

[danlb_2000]

Wrong. If the vaccines are safe and effective and lead to minimal break through cases and significantly less impactful illnesses. Then you as a vaccinated person have nothing to worry about from an unvaccinated person.

You can pretend that is true if it makes you feel better, but the reality is that unvaccinated people getting sick can impact you in many ways.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Doesn't your company have a policy for this?

There is no policy. I’m quite certain that if I bring it up it won’t be popular with managers or the owner.

I've been traveling for work all over the US and a few times to the UK since June of last year, and in "high risk" places to boot (including a few hospital environments). I never caught the virus, even before vaccinated (and was tested too many times I want to count). You will most likely be fine despite the thread hyperbole.

Were you masking and keeping pretty much to yourself? Or going out for food and drinks with co-workers, etc.?

 

[Timmay]

You clealy do not work in health care or have any idea what you are talking about. I have never worked a hospital that could fill all of its advertised vacancies. There simply isn't this excess pool of available skilled medical labor that you imagine could be scaled up in a matter of months.

As an example, I generally recieve about two dozen job solicitations from head hunters on a daily basis. Most of the nurses I work with receive the same. Sometimes, I get the same job advertised by multiple recruiters for months.

Finally, about half of the physicians you see making rounds aren't even employed directly by the hospital. They have admitting privileges, but get paid a service fee for each patient they see, who are usually their patients on the outside.

I’ve worked in and with hospitals for 17 years now. The person you are responding to is pretty much spot on. Even long before 2020, hospital rarely ran at what they would consider full clinical staffing for budgeting reasons. They have been operating on the philosophy of “less staffing, more work” for years now. Even not-for-profit facilities have to keep at the 40-45% of overall budget for payroll. That doesn’t even come close to being enough clinical staff.

Regarding your last paragraph about physicians, there are two structures for physician staffing. One is which you said, but many hospitals do in fact directly employ all of their physicians, especially not-for-profit facilities.

 

[Polkadotdress]

Hi, poster right here. We were told that vaccines were our way to normalcy by our leaders, up until they weren’t and we’re now restricting everyone who has chosen to do the right thing. Most ordinary people are confused and angered by the constant mixed messaging, politicization, and confusion.

Actually...many people were confused and angered by the mixed messaging because they didn't understand that situation change, information changes too. Whereas many people were also confused and angered by the complete lack of cooperation by their fellow mankind to follow simple Covid safety guidelines including masking, distancing, and receiving the vaccine.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I’ve worked in and with hospitals for 17 years now. The person you are responding to is pretty much spot on. Even long before 2020, hospital rarely ran at what they would consider full clinical staffing for budgeting reasons. They have been operating on the philosophy of “less staffing, more work” for years now. Even not-for-profit facilities have to keep at the 40-45% of overall budget for payroll. That doesn’t even come close to being enough clinical staff.

Regarding your last paragraph about physicians, there are two structures for physician staffing. One is which you said, but many hospitals do in fact directly employ all of their physicians, especially not-for-profit facilities.

Both can be true. The underlying issue is that there isn't an excess pool of medical labor that can be quickly scaled up to meet the needs during a period of surges. And due to laws regarding licensing, credentialling, and certification, medical labor is not easily transferrable between states or even between institutions. The dirty little tax trick that NY state pulled on medical workers who volunteered during their surge probably killed any spirit of voluntarism in the future.

The OP's original response was that medical staff suffering burn-out from the pandemic should just quit was both heartless and ill-informed, because these skilled professionals can't be easily replaced. Even if you hire an equally qualified replacement, you lose valuable institutional and system-based knowledge that can only be learned with experience.

 

[monothingie]

You can pretend that is true if it makes you feel better, but the reality is that unvaccinated people getting sick can impact you in many ways.

No not really. , but everything that has been put out by relevant authorities says that the impacts, if there are any, are minimal at worst.

. If you know you will never get to 100% vaccination and the vaccine is safe and effective, where are we going with this continual malarkey that the unvaccinated pose a risk? Does it go away when we reach unattainable percentages like 80% 90% or 100%?

 

[danlb_2000]

Both can be true. The underlying issue is that there isn't an excess pool of medical labor that can be quickly scaled up to meet the needs during a period of surges. And due to laws regarding licensing, credentialling, and certification, medical labor is not easily transferrable between states or even between institutions. The dirty little tax trick that NY state pulled on medical workers who volunteered during their surge probably killed any spirit of voluntarism in the future.

The OP's original response was that medical staff suffering burn-out from the pandemic should just quit was both heartless and ill-informed, because these skilled professionals can't be easily replaced. Even if you hire an equally qualified replacement, you lose valuable institutional and system-based knowledge that can only be learned with experience.

A lot of jobs required people to go into crisis mode under some circumstances, but no one should ever be expected to operate like that long term.

 

[jlhwdw]

How did we do it in 2020?

Poorly

 

[Lilofan]

There aren't exactly a ton of excess doctors and nurses out there. These aren't like entry-level CMs that you can train in a matternof weeks.

Nurses in my family work their 3 day exhausting work week and rest and recover the other 4 days. These staff among all in the hospital are heroes.

 

[danlb_2000]

No not really. I know it’s popular around here to obediently conform to the collective terror filled group think, but everything that has been put out by relevant authorities says that the impacts, if there are any, are minimal at worst.

You seem like a smarter member of the herd here. If you know you will never get to 100% vaccination and the vaccine is safe and effective, where are we going with this continual malarkey that the unvaccinated pose a risk? Does it go away when we reach unattainable percentages like 80% 90% or 100%?

Bec

The side effects of a lot of people getting sick...

- Hospitals start to get overloaded causing...
- you non-emergency surgery to be postponed
- you are prevented from visiting loved ones in the hospital
- you may end up getting sub-standard care if you end up in the hosptial for other reasons
- you may have long wait if you end up in the emergency room for other reasons.

- If your co-workers get stick you may have to take on some of their work while they are out
- If workers are sick you could get poor service from companies you deal with
- Sick workers and shut downs impact the supply chain for all kinds of goods making things hard to get, or more expensive.

This is just a few ways unvaccinated people getting sick could impact you and I am sure there are plenty I can't think of.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Can we lower the tude a few notches? We can all here agree to disagree with one another on certain points but we don’t have to be so snarky to the person. Let’s act like adults and try and be a bit civil.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I’ve worked in and with hospitals for 17 years now. The person you are responding to is pretty much spot on. Even long before 2020, hospital rarely ran at what they would consider full clinical staffing for budgeting reasons. They have been operating on the philosophy of “less staffing, more work” for years now. Even not-for-profit facilities have to keep at the 40-45% of overall budget for payroll. That doesn’t even come close to being enough clinical staff.

Regarding your last paragraph about physicians, there are two structures for physician staffing. One is which you said, but many hospitals do in fact directly employ all of their physicians, especially not-for-profit facilities.

The mix of fee-for-service and hospital-employed physicians is usually determined by the local pool of private physicians who are willing to make rounds on their patients, less a matter of how the hospital admin would prefer to run things. When I last worked as a hospitalist, we could usually get by with two providers during the day and one nocturnist, because several of the local private practices handled their own admissions.

Now in the region where I work, most practices are hospital owned, and I think the only physician who rounds on his own patients is the peditrician who visits the maternity ward. So, most of the hospitalists are directly employed.

 

[monothingie]

America has a new slogan.

America - the land of the free… antivaxxers.

(For real though, they are everywhere? Who let them out?)

But there is always the other option right?

We can round them up and place them into camps and forcibly inject them against their will.

 

[jlhwdw]

Hospitals SHOULD be over staffed at all times. Same with Disney World theme parks.

I thought Disney World theme parks were supposed to be closed

 

[Timmay]

Both can be true. The underlying issue is that there isn't an excess pool of medical labor that can be quickly scaled up to meet the needs during a period of surges. And due to laws regarding licensing, credentialling, and certification, medical labor is not easily transferrable between states or even between institutions. The dirty little tax trick that NY state pulled on medical workers who volunteered during their surge probably killed any spirit of voluntarism in the future.

The OP's original response was that medical staff suffering burn-out from the pandemic should just quit was both heartless and ill-informed, because these skilled professionals can't be easily replaced. Even if you hire an equally qualified replacement, you lose valuable institutional and system-based knowledge that can only be learned with experience.

To be fair, CMS relaxed the licensing and credentialing guidelines for the pandemic. To be honest, I don’t know if it’s gone back to normal yet or not, although the normal guidelines do allow the same relaxation during emergency crisis events. But true, for any nationwide crisis, there isn’t enough to go around.

My main point was healthcare organizations have been suffering from understaffing for many years before the pandemic, due to their own actions. The pandemic has just made it headline news. It should have been all along.