Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[peter11435]

As a lawyer, how would you suppose that disney would handle medical conditions that result in lack of temperature regulation?

my daughter’s resting temperature is 99.0-99.5, sometimes 99.8. This is documented and agreed upon by her pediatrician (likely related to her genetic disorder). We are told not consider it a fever unless it is over 101.

On the flip side, my own resting temperature is 97.5. At 99, i almost certainly am actually sick and infectious. By the time I get a fever over 100, I’m usually in bed not moving much.

This alone shows how ineffectual temperature screening is.

Where temperature checks have been implemented they used 100.4 as the threshold.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

As a lawyer, how would you suppose that disney would handle medical conditions that result in lack of temperature regulation?

my daughter’s resting temperature is 99.0-99.5, sometimes 99.8. This is documented and agreed upon by her pediatrician (likely related to her genetic disorder). We are told not consider it a fever unless it is over 101.

On the flip side, my own resting temperature is 97.5. At 99, i almost certainly am actually sick and infectious. By the time I get a fever over 100, I’m usually in bed not moving much.

This alone shows how ineffectual temperature screening is.

Same here. If my temperature is 98.6 I have a decent fever. Which is why it’s like security theatre... it’s just so they can check the box and say “well we did something”

 

[peter11435]

I would agree that there may be a limited number of people who have bought tickets via other outlets, but if the MDE fastpass booking system is the directed Disney route for getting access to E-ticket rides, then Disney will still have tracking data on these people, including contact details via the app.

It’s not a limited number of people at all though.
Fastpasses can be booked through in park kiosks utilizing no MDX link or personal information. And fastpasses are not required to gain access to e-ticket attractions. There are also ways that unknown and unassigned guests can utilize MDX for fastpass bookings.

Hypothetically speaking let’s say they did know the name and address of every guest in the park (they don’t), and they have a contact email for every guest in the park (they don’t). If Disney sent an email to every single guest requesting permission to disclose personal information and one person didn’t respond, then what?

 

[Angel Ariel]

For what it is worth - those temperature ranges are not considered a fever for the general population. 38.0 celsius (100.4) is what would be considered a positive screen / Low grade fever threshold.

In the very rare likelihood someone had a periodic fever syndrome - I'm sure they would accept medical documentation to wave the false reading.

Respectfully, you missed my point.

if 100.4 is considered a fever with the “norm” generally regarded as 98.6, then a 1.8 degree temperature rise is what’s considered a fever.

For my daughter, that number would be (comjng from 99.5, which is her average resting temp) - 101.3. Far above the 100.4 limit. 100.4 for her is like someone with a resting temp of 98.6 having a 99.5 degree temperature - which, as you stated, is not considered a fever. She can hit 100.4 just by running around and being slightly dehydrated (we have had that happen with school, and her temp being checked right after recess).

for myself, on the other hand - with a 97.5 temperature, my “fever” range - going with the 1.8 degree rise - would be 99.3 - far lower than the 100.4 threshold.

and, again, her 99.5 temperature is not considered a fever by her doctors - periodic or otherwise. It is her normal, everyday temp. She is not considered by medical professionals to have a fever until she is over 101.

Requiring medical documentation of disability is also something Disney has been quite loathe to do.

 

[Calmdownnow]

The amount you don't know about US and EU privacy laws would apparently fill volumes.

I don't know about U.S privacy laws in respect of minors, but in the EU the "Right to Life" is an over-riding law and if you have reason to believe that someone's life may be at risk you can over-ride other laws in order to protect them. So, privacy is not protected if someone would be harmed by your action or inaction. Your identity might be protected from publicity, but your anon. data is not. Privacy (not being named) does not mean that actions cannot be taken to protect you from others, or others from you. It does not preclude your anon. data being included in data sets.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Where temperature checks have been implemented they used 100.4 as the threshold.

Please see the post I just made, it addresses this point.

 

[monykalyn]

I don't know about U.S privacy laws in respect of minors, but in the EU the "Right to Life" is an over-riding law and if you have reason to believe that someone's life may be at risk you can over-ride other laws in order to protect them. So, privacy is not protected if someone would be harmed by your action or inaction. Your identity might be protected from publicity, but your anon. data is not. Privacy (not being named) does not mean that actions cannot be taken to protect you from others, or others from you. It does not preclude your anon. data being included in data sets.

How do you think this data is “saving a life”? I’m confused...Disney has zero way of knowing who “may” have been sick or a carrier, so the data doesn’t do anything.

 

[peter11435]

How do you think this data is “saving a life”? I’m confused...Disney has zero way of knowing who “may” have been sick or a carrier, so the data doesn’t do anything.

Especially if the data is kept anonymous. Then it would ultimately just be a random collection of hometowns that would be impossible to tie to positive or negative cases. It wouldn’t accomplish anything.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Same here. If my temperature is 98.6 I have a decent fever. Which is why it’s like security theatre... it’s just so they can check the box and say “well we did something”

I made that analogy in another thread earlier tonight.

not to mention, take tylenol 30 mins before you arrive and, boom, no fever. It is nothing but theatre. And as someone else said, it has the potential to be more dangerous because once inside, having been “screened,” people are far more likely to relax and not pay attention.

 

[Calmdownnow]

We are a long way from my starting position which I hoped made two points: Disney has a unique date base which can help infection tracking because it places large numbers, many thousands of people, at precise locations at a time when infection may have been rife and that data base can track a large percentage of those people both geographically and socially. If combined with subsequent infection rates for communities and individual tracking data, this can provide very useful data that will help the country going forward. It doesn't mean Disney infected these people or that individuals need to be identified as somehow culpable for the disease spreading.

Disney, as any responsible corporation should be making the data available because it has something unique to bring to the table. If it doesn't then it is derelict in its contribution to the country's effort and this should be taken into account when public monies are handed out to support workers and business.

 

[Calmdownnow]

How do you think this data is “saving a life”? I’m confused...Disney has zero way of knowing who “may” have been sick or a carrier, so the data doesn’t do anything.

See above.

 

[Angel Ariel]

We are a long way from my starting position which I hoped made two points: Disney has a unique date base which can help infection tracking because it places large numbers, many thousands of people, at precise locations at a time when infection may have been rife and that data base can track a large percentage of those people both geographically and socially. If combined with subsequent infection rates for communities and individual tracking data, this can provide very useful data that will help the country going forward. It doesn't mean Disney infected these people or that individuals need to be identified as somehow culpable for the disease spreading.

Disney, as any responsible corporation should be making the data available because it has something unique to bring to the table. If it doesn't then it is derelict in its contribution to the country's effort and this should be taken into account when public monies are handed out to support workers and business.

Doing so would appear to be against their own TOS. Bolded important points

How do the RF Devices work?

Each MagicBand contains an HF radio frequency device and a transmitter which sends and receives RF signals through a small antenna inside the MagicBand. Each RF Card contains a passive HF radio frequency chip. Some of your benefits will be unlocked by "touching" your MagicBand or card to short-range reader touch points located at the Resort, including access to your Disney Resort hotel room, entry to a Disney theme park or making purchases at select Resort locations. The MagicBands can also be read by long-range readers placed in select locations throughout the Resort used to deliver personalized experiences and photos, as well as provide information that helps us improve the overall experience in our parks.

Guests can participate in MyMagic+ and visit the Resort without using the MagicBand by choosing a card, which cannot be detected by the long-range readers; however, certain features of MyMagic+ are dependent upon long-range readers, including automatic delivery of certain attraction photos and videos and some personalized offerings, which are only available to guests using a MagicBand.

The RF Devices are not GPS-based and do not enable collection of continuous location signals. Instead, MyMagic+ uses both short- and long-range readers located within the Resort to deliver the benefits of MyMagic+.

The RF Devices themselves do not store your personal information. Rather, your RF Device contains only a randomly assigned code that securely links to an encrypted database. This allows us to associate your RF Device with the benefits you have purchased and to collect information regarding your interactions with the various RF Device readers located at the Resort.

What information is collected through your use of the RF Devices and how is it used?

We use the information collected in connection with MyMagic+ to deliver the best possible guest experience. For example:

When you use your RF Device at touch points (e.g., for Disney Resort room entry, park admission, FastPass+, and purchases at select Resort locations), we are able to record your transaction and, when necessary, make the appropriate adjustment to your account.

The long-range readers will be in specific locations to enable the delivery of attraction photos and videos and personalized offerings.

Your interactions provide us with information about the products and services you experience in the Parks; your wait time for rides, restaurants and other attractions; and similar types of information.

If you sign up on the My Disney Experience website or mobile app to receive special email and/or text message alerts during your Resort visit, we may use information collected through your use of the RF Device to fulfill your request.

We may also use the information we collect through your use of the RF Device to send you information about products and services that we think may be of interest to you, but you can always choose not to receive marketing information from us. We will not use information collected in connection with MyMagic+ to personalize or target advertising to children under age 13.

Aggregate information can be used to better understand guest behavior and make improvements to the guest experience (e.g., managing wait times and improving traffic flow).

How is information collected through your use of the RF Devices shared?

We may share information about your experiences at the Resort with other members of the Walt Disney Family of Companies, but you can always choose not to receive marketing from us.

However, information about your specific park experience collected automatically when your MagicBand is read by long-range readers will not be shared with other members of the Walt Disney Family of Companies to use for marketing purposes unless you elect that we do so.

We will only share information about you that is collected automatically when your MagicBand is read by long-range readers with third parties for their marketing uses if you elect that we do so.

FAQ from disney

 

[BrianLo]

and, again, her 99.5 temperature is not considered a fever by her doctors - periodic or otherwise. It is her normal, everyday temp. She is not considered by medical professionals to have a fever until she is over 101.

Sorry, I got that other argument you were making. I just wanted to clarify 99.5 is not considered a fever by anyone. Not specific to your daughter's medical conditions. It is a normal temperature amongst the general population. That's all I was trying to relay.

There is actually a push to acknowledge there is a wide range of 'normal'. Sometimes even a recommendation of a higher threshold of 38.3 (or 100.9) measured peripherally as within the acceptable range of limits for all children.

Your Pediatricians advice is totally correct, don't worry about under 101. But it applies to all children, not just your daughter.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Sorry, I got that other argument you were making. I just wanted to clarify 99.5 is not considered a fever by anyone. Not specific to your daughter's medical conditions. It is a normal temperature amongst the general population. That's all I was trying to relay.

There is actually a push to acknowledge there is a wide range of 'normal'. Sometimes even a recommendation of a higher threshold of 38.3 (or 100.9) measured peripherally as within the acceptable range of limits for all children.

Your Pediatricians advice is totally correct, don't worry about under 101. But it applies to all children, not just your daughter.

I don’t worry about her. I know she’s fine. I have had to fight the school to keep her in because of that 100.4 degree threshold. Now, they already know about her condition because she receives services through IDEA. But Disney doing this would put them in a position of requiring medical documentation - something theit own DAS FAQ states there are legal restrictions surrounding. That is the point I am trying to get at.

 

[Calmdownnow]

Doing so would appear to be against their own TOS. Bolded important points

"When you use your RF Device at touch points (e.g., for Disney Resort room entry, park admission, FastPass+, and purchases at select Resort locations), we are able to record your transaction and, when necessary, make the appropriate adjustment to your account. "

The key word here is "marketing". It doesn't preclude them from using data for public safety purposes or any other purpose. I would be more worried about the claims about not storing data. This might make the data less valuable to researchers, but it only references the Magic bands themselves, not other data capturing devices, e.g. within stores. It also appears to re-assure people that data about location or activity is not stored on the Magic Band, but does not confirm that that data is not held elsewhere


"The RF Devices themselves do not store your personal information. Rather, your RF Device contains only a randomly assigned code that securely links to an encrypted database. This allows us to associate your RF Device with the benefits you have purchased and to collect information regarding your interactions with the various RF Device readers located at the Resort. "

"Your interactions provide us with information about the products and services you experience in the Parks; your wait time for rides, restaurants and other attractions; and similar types of information."

The inference is that it captures data real time, but no reassurance about where or how the data is stored or analysed. In reality, there is no reason for capturing all of this data unless you are doing something with it.

 

[havoc315]

As a lawyer, how would you suppose that disney would handle medical conditions that result in lack of temperature regulation?

my daughter’s resting temperature is 99.0-99.5, sometimes 99.8. This is documented and agreed upon by her pediatrician (likely related to her genetic disorder). We are told not consider it a fever unless it is over 101.

On the flip side, my own resting temperature is 97.5. At 99, i almost certainly am actually sick and infectious. By the time I get a fever over 100, I’m usually in bed not moving much.

This alone shows how ineffectual temperature screening is.

ETA: Given apparent confusion in later posts, i am adding this explanation from a later post of mine:

99.8 isn’t considered a fever.

and let’s be clear —- no system is perfect. But perfection can’t be the enemy of the good. Temperature checks won’t eliminate 90%-100% of transmission.

but if it reduces transmission by 25%...
and mandatory masks reduce it by another 25%..
and touchless transactions reduce it by another 10%..
and handwashing stations reduce it by another 10%....

then you get down to a point where “reasonable “ steps have been taken and you can re-open.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

and touchless transactions reduce it by another 10%..

What transactions are touchless at Disney?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Not everyone has or utilizes magic bands or mdx. Disney does not collect information on every guest. Entrance touchpoint use biometrics not finger prints and do not identify specific individuals. Magic bands do not track location minute by minute.

Yet. Yet. Yet. Yet.

 

[marni1971]

We are waiting for confirmation from GOAA (airport authority) but the Orlando Sentinel says passenger count is down 97% at MCO (OIA)

I’m sure. Our current count is a similar one. But our annual figure is forecast to drop by a 1/3, and that’s the good estimate.

 

[Kiwiduck]

Wow, I seriously have no words. Thank you so much for understanding. Unfortunately not many people do. I've been harassed on Twitter and other boards by adults and people my parents' age for sounding selfish and ungrateful for what I've been given in life. I promise, I feel so blessed for every opportunity I have. My parents allowed me to get an education at my dream university in a field I've been talking about working in since I was 3 years old. I've dealt with health issues since I was a teenager and didn't even know if I was going to be able to go to college.
I worked so hard to get my degree. I developed anxiety and depression but it's all been worth it. College was the best experience of my life. And I thought the Disney College Program was going to be the start to my future. Unfortunately, due to the pandemic my entire life has been turned upside down. And I know I'm young and have a full life ahead of me, but when you have your childhood dreams crushed before your eyes it hurts so much.

I'm so sad for you and all the other young people in your situation. No one knows what the future holds but I hope you get to work in your dream field in the future. In the meantime stay healthy and well!!