Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Wendy Pleakley]

They didn't HAVE to reintroduce restrictions. The CDC guidance for the unvaccinated to wear masks is for the purpose of protecting other unvaccinated people. Since everybody has the opportunity to be vaccinated to protect themselves if they choose, no government should be mandating anything to protect people who choose, for whatever reason, not to protect themselves.

I think Australia proves that it is impossible to get rid of COVID through mitigation, testing and contact tracing. The only thing those measures do is "flatten the curve" and slow the pandemic. The only thing that will ever get rid of COVID is herd immunity gained through vaccination, natural infection or a combination of the two.

You can change my comment from 'had' to re-introduce restrictions to 'chose' to do so, but the result is the same.

Government imposes lots of rules for people's protection. Seatbelts and drug use are things that primarily impact the individual using or not using them, and there are still laws around those behaviours.

Sometimes the government will try and protect those that don't help themselves. That's the reality. It's frustrating for everyone who is vaccinated because it feels like they're being punished for the actions of others, but government in this case is just trying to keep the entire population safer, and isn't going to worry about what's fair nor throw unvaccinated people under the bus. It's easy for the rest of us to say "leave those idiots to their fate" but the government has a higher standard of care to adhere to.

 

[LaughingGravy]

... but my sample that went through CVS/quest diagnostics was considered from someone unvaccinated, I do wonder what else might cause inaccurate reporting of vaccinations( my case is probably the exception)

One can only hope yours is one of few data exceptions.
How did you find out yours was considered as coming from someone unvaccinated, and we're you able to get it fixed?
I would be pretty vocal about making sure it was being recorded as a case with someone who was fully vaccinated.

I would also like to see a full breakdown of the breakthrough cases by which vaccine they got, presuming they were past the full immunization period and by how much time.

 

[havoc315]

That may be fine short term. Long term...nope..

I suspect it will be very long term -- Requiring vaccination to enter the country. That's not exactly new, other countries have long required vaccination.

 

[CJR]

It will never be flat without herd immunity

Exactly.

Masks themselves work.

Unfortunately we have a large enough sample size that shows that human behavior in relation to masks makes them ineffective.

If we want a mask mandate do it right!

Everyone over the age of 2 in public has to wear a properly fitted N95 mask at all times or face significant fines.

Then masks will prove to be a truly effective tool in our fight against the virus.

Until then it’s just another half hearted attempt to pretend like we are trying when really we are continuing to fail.

This is correct. The problem is leaders are just tossing stuff out there without real enforcement and with little purpose other than to make it look like they're doing something. It's not going to work.

We, the vaccinated, can wear masks, but if we aren't the group testing positive to Covid and that group refuses to wear masks, they're going to spread it among themselves regardless. Especially without a blanket mask mandate where individual businesses are being asked to participate. That's basically a second honor system, and businesses, just like people, have shown mixed results. To get this under control, real firm leadership is needed all across the board. That group will not like it either.

For real progress to happen, we need to zero in on vaccines. The evidence is overwhelming that vaccines work and work well. We will have to treat people who are able to get the vaccine and don't different from those who are fully vaccinated. That's the only way people who have not yet received the vaccine will get one - and they know it, that's why they have fought so hard against vaccine passports.

A good example is my in-laws. They have refused to get the vaccine to this point using every excuse from "it's experimental" to "it causes fertility issues". My in-laws own property in Canada and have been itching to go back. Canada is allowing people to visit starting in August, but only if they're vaccinated. Finally, my in-laws are looking to get the vaccine so they can go to Canada. Providing real incentive works. There will still be some who refuse, but I believe we need more moves like what Canada is making.

Even Floridians will want to leave Florida at some point, if key cities like New York, Washington DC, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles require proof to do anything there, I think we'll see a real shift among those who remain to get vaccinated. Florida can refuse to participate all they want, but if those places that can, will, we'll probably see it impact people in Florida - just like it seems to be impacting my in-laws.

It will work and I believe that's the only thing that will. Masks mandates will just delay and drag this on until it resurfaces, if we don't change our effort. Yes, people are getting vaccinated daily, but not remotely to the extent at the numbers that they need to be. That's what we really need to focus on.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I suspect it will be very long term -- Requiring vaccination to enter the country. That's not exactly new, other countries have long required vaccination.

As has the US for people visiting other countries, so particular diseases aren't brought back.

 

[havoc315]

That seems a bit pessimistic. India's cases have fallen to less than 10% of their peak and cumulatively they have had <32 million cases in a country of 1.4 billion people (2.2% of the population). Most people think the 32 million is vastly undercounted, but we're still talking single digit percetages of the population.

That's in an country with 6% fully vaccinated individuals. So even the Delta variant isnt' instantly spreading to every unvaccinated person.

India woefully under counted. An article and study today indicated they have under counted by over 10x

India's Covid deaths likely 10 times the official toll, study says

The pandemic has arguably caused India’s “worst human tragedy,” the report's authors say.

www.nbcnews.com

And it's not like they are done. A wave may have passed, but infection continues at a high rate, there will be more surges.

 

[Lilofan]

As has the US for people visiting other countries, so particular diseases aren't brought back.

A husband and wife in my town are flying to Italy for a wedding. They are scared but are still going.

 

[Andrew C]

As has the US for people visiting other countries, so particular diseases aren't brought back.

There are reasons that those from the US were able to travel to countries like Canada, the UK, most of Europe, and I believe Australia without showing vaccination records (and vice versa). Significant benefits to doing so. And the plan is to change that not only in the short term, but long term...indefinitely? Ok. We will see how that works out I guess.

 

[Willmark]

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Could you clarify?

Threefold
1. Your response about the effectiveness/non-effectiveness. I’m not even delving into that. Others can argue about trying to get the reluctant to partake.

2. Public Perception is in two parts here. First the perception that segments of the public will take from being vaccinated and then told to wear masks? Tied into that, that smacks of punishing those who did get vaccinated. Sorta like trying to solve drunk driving by pulling over the sober drivers. Which is government’s MO for a variety of issues which delve into political and I’ll refrain from mentioning.

3. In a free society (or at least freer) public sentiment has to be marshaled/husbanded as a finite resource because it is. This isn’t as of yet a autocracy or dictatorship where public will is irrelevant. People can argue all they want till they are blue in the face about what should be done but outside of declaring marshal law and forcibly injecting people this will continue.

As you and I have discussed prior, this shouldn’t be political. The reality is it is. I don’t see that changing anytime soon and Covid is just another factor in the divide.

 

[Disney Experience]

One can only hope yours is one of few data exceptions.
How did you find out yours was considered as coming from someone unvaccinated, and we're you able to get it fixed?
I would be pretty vocal about making sure it was being recorded as a case with someone who was fully vaccinated.

I would also like to see a full breakdown of the breakthrough cases by which vaccine they got, presuming they were past the full immunization period and by how much time.

I literally could not get a test appointment unless I said I was unvaccinated in the CVS appointment website. I originally said I was vaccinated . I filled in the dates of vaccination , but it would not let me go on unless I changed it to not vaccinated. At the time I had 102.9 fever, chills, exhaustion, weakness, first days of symptoms so I do not remember what their error was other than I could not continue until I changed to never vaccinated. My second shot was within 9 months, but I am one of the first 15000 in the world vaccinated with Pfizer. My CDC vaccination card has my first shot with a lot number 10 ( and a letter suffix)

 

[Jrb1979]

There are reasons that those from the US were able to travel to countries like Canada, the UK, most of Europe, and I believe Australia without showing vaccination records (and vice versa). Significant benefits to doing so. And the plan is to change that not only in the short term, but long term...indefinitely? Ok. We will see how that works out I guess.

The fact the Canada has made an app for people to upload their proof of vaccination makes me think it's staying for awhile. They wouldn't go to all the trouble to make something for a short term fix.

 

[Touchdown]

This is correct. The problem is leaders are just tossing stuff out there without real enforcement and with little purpose other than to make it look like they're doing something. It's not going to work.

We, the vaccinated, can wear masks, but if we aren't the group testing positive to Covid and that group refuses to wear masks, they're going to spread it among themselves regardless. Especially without a blanket mask mandate where individual businesses are being asked to participate. That's basically a second honor system, and businesses, just like people, have shown mixed results. To get this under control, real firm leadership is needed all across the board. That group will not like it either.

For real progress to happen, we need to zero in on vaccines. The evidence is overwhelming that vaccines work and work well. We will have to treat people who are able to get the vaccine and don't different from those who are fully vaccinated. That's the only way people who have not yet received the vaccine will get one - and they know it, that's why they have fought so hard against vaccine passports.

A good example is my in-laws. They have refused to get the vaccine to this point using every excuse from "it's experimental" to "it causes fertility issues". My in-laws own property in Canada and have been itching to go back. Canada is allowing people to visit starting in August, but only if they're vaccinated. Finally, my in-laws are looking to get the vaccine so they can go to Canada. Providing real incentive works. There will still be some who refuse, but I believe we need more moves like what Canada is making.

Even Floridians will want to leave Florida at some point, if key cities like New York, Washington DC, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles require proof to do anything there, I think we'll see a real shift among those who remain to get vaccinated. Florida can refuse to participate all they want, but if those places that can, will, we'll probably see it impact people in Florida - just like it seems to be impacting my in-laws.

It will work and I believe that's the only thing that will. Masks mandates will just delay and drag this on until it resurfaces, if we don't change our effort. Yes, people are getting vaccinated daily, but not remotely to the extent at the numbers that they need to be. That's what we really need to focus on.

Unimpeeded Interstate travel is a right granted to all citizens through the constitution and only Congress can regulate it not states.

 

[LittleBuford]

Threefold
1. Your response about the effectiveness/non-effectiveness. I’m not even delving into that. Others can argue about trying to get the reluctant to partake.

2. Public Perception is in two parts here. First the perception that segments of the public will take from being vaccinated and then told to wear masks? Tied into that, that smacks of punishing those who did get vaccinated. Sorta like trying to solve drunk driving by pulling over the sober drivers. Which is government’s MO for a variety of issues which delve into political and I’ll refrain from mentioning.

3. In a free society (or at least freer) public sentiment has to be marshaled/husbanded as a finite resource because it is. This isn’t as of yet a autocracy or dictatorship where public will is irrelevant. People can argue all they want till they are blue in the face about what should be done but outside of declaring marshal law and forcibly injecting people this will continue.

As you and I have discussed prior, this shouldn’t be political. The reality is it is. I don’t see that changing anytime soon and Covid is just another factor in the divide.

My post was responding to your suggestion that the new LA policy was “sink[ing] the credibility of the vaccine in the public’s eye”. Unless there is evidence to show that the public’s view of the vaccine has indeed been adversely affected by this move, I don’t think it’s fair to assume such a development, especially given that the policy is clearly not a comment on the vaccines.

 

[mf1972]

You aren’t unique in bad terrible people in office spreading lies and misinformation. We all have them. IMO it’s the main reason we can’t get vaccination rates up. Always going to have the percentage of anti that will never get it but the millions on the fence? It’s these people I blame.

Twitter suspends Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene over ‘misleading’ COVID info

Twitter suspended Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene on Monday for violating its policy against posting “misleading information” related to the coronavirus pandemic.

www.google.com

Not being political, I’m really not. But people believe in their leaders and do listen.

i’m being too kind by saying this, but that lady is coo coo for cocoa puffs

 

[Willmark]

My post was responding to your suggestion that the new LA policy was “sink[ing] the credibility of the vaccine in the public’s eye”. Unless there is evidence to show that the public’s view of the vaccine has indeed been adversely affected by this move, I don’t think it’s fair to assume such a development, especially given that the policy is clearly not a comment on the vaccines.

See my further reply as to my meaning.

 

[mmascari]

There is not a fallback plan really anywhere on this planet. Lockdown, reopen, lockdown, reopen...rinse and repeat. The virus isn't going anywhere. By January 2020, the world never really had a chance. It seems pretty clear to me now. The worldwide vaccination rate will never be at a level where the virus will be eradicated (which is what we would need in a global society). Society can only hope that enough will be vaccinated worldwide so that cases will be at an acceptable level moving forward.

And we expect them to stay closed to nonessential travel forever? Because that is what they are going to have to do to keep covid out of their country. Do you honestly think the worldwide vaccination rate is ever going to be high enough to eradicate this? You're an expert on this stuff, right? I think it is going to take years to get the rates to where we no longer worry about outbreaks throughout the world.

What is a high percentage though? And when can the entire world achieve that? I see that as taking years and years. It isn't good enough that just Australia achieves a high vaccination rate. So, they are going to keep things like tourism off the table for a decade?

This assumes the globe has equal access to vaccines, and the good vaccines, and that everyone will take it. I wouldn't expect more than 50% of the total world's population to be vaccinated. And even less with the highly effective vaccines.

That may be fine short term. Long term...nope..

The world is to large we'll never solve it everywhere, so we shouldn't worry about solving it anywhere is an interesting take. It's up there with just let it all burn.

We may never solve it everywhere is definitely true. TB and Polio both exist and are endemic in many areas of the world. But, they're also very rare in many areas too.

A better person than me would worry about solving it for the entire world. But, I'll settle for solving in the part of the world I live in.

That's a completely solvable problem.

Using Australia as an example (since I don't live there), they seem headed down a path to solving it for their area. They built a bubble. They created the tools and processes for rapid identification of incursions into the bubble and isolation of those to contain when they occur. They'll get enough people within the bubble vaccinated eventually. They'll open up the bubble slowly, first to only other vaccinated travelers. Eventually to travelers from areas of high vaccination with less concern about individuals. They don't have to worry about the rest of the world only how that rest creates incursions into their bubble and that they contain those incursions fast enough. If they get the local vaccination rate high enough, they'll have less and less incursions break out.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I literally could not get a test appointment unless I said I was unvaccinated in the CVS appointment website.

That could be one reason we are seeing such different numbers in Israel and the U. K.

I’m not suggesting a conspiracy... more like a major glitch in the way the systems may have been set up.

 

[CJR]

Unimpeeded Interstate travel is a right granted to all citizens through the constitution and only Congress can regulate it not states.

Not sure what that has to do with what I'm talking about. You can enter these cities, but to go see the Empire State Building or Statue of Liberty, you should need a vaccine. States and cities can control that.

I won't get into the interstate travel stuff - since it's political - but the Democrats control congress. These cities are blue cities (in blue states). I'll just leave it at that.

 

[correcaminos]

That could be one reason we are seeing such different numbers in Israel and the U. K.

I’m not suggesting a conspiracy... more like a major glitch in the way the systems may have been set up.

Yes but the reason for that was that the date they put in for the trial wasn't accepted. Not conspiracy there, just trial people with a too far out date that the system didn't accept it. The trial would be watching more closely for numbers than anyone else too m

 

[Andrew C]

The world is to large we'll never solve it everywhere, so we shouldn't worry about solving it anywhere is an interesting take. It's up there with just let it all burn.

That’s not my take. I’ll just leave it at that.