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Coranavirus Disneyland General Discussion
- Thread starter CaptinEO
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mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Not sure if you re been referring to me. No bad faith here. I think twice before what I put in my body. I think twice before taking Advil unless the pain is completely intolerable. I’m not interested in taking a vaccine for something I have a 99% chance of beating.
October82
Well-Known Member
The ELI5 of how vaccines work is that they "train" the immune system to respond to infections. Coronaviruses are an example of an RNA virus, essentially consisting of a strand of RNA surrounded by a membrane with "spike" proteins. When you are exposed to the virus, these spike proteins attach to your cells so that the viral RNA can enter them. The RNA is then translated and transcribed by your cells into new copies of the virus. Your cells then shed these into the environment, infecting the surrounding cells and repeating the cycle. Since SARS-CoV-2 is a respiratory virus, this reproduction happens in your nose, throat, and lungs, where the shedded viruses are released into the environment as you breathe and cough.
The vaccines target the spike protein itself, allowing your immune system to quickly clear infections and cutting off the reproductive cycle of the virus. In clinical trials (and post-clinical studies), the vaccines have shown that they prevent both symptomatic and asymptomatic infection and, consequently, transmission. Put more simply, after vaccination, the virus is unable to reproduce rapidly enough to spread to another person.
Again, the vaccines are highly effective against catching covid or developing a serious case but are not 100%. And masks increase your odds of not catching it.
Everyone will weigh the odds and pain-vs-gain for themselves. I would never play Lotto because I think the odds are insane vs getting a known value for my buck. But I experience minimal pain from wearing a mask indoors vs my chances of getting sick or spreading it.
October82
Well-Known Member
I worry about what I put in my body too. My friends say I'm a bit of a health nut. But we're talking about a virus that attacks your circulatory and respiratory system in really vicious ways. For some people, it's very deadly (and a 1% risk is much larger than you might give it credit for!), but even asymptomatic and mild infection has long term impacts on much of your body. The choice to get vaccinated isn't just about protecting your own health - it's really about protecting others - but I can understand being worried about vaccine safety.
I hope you're able to get your questions answered by someone you trust. And I hope that if you're not already vaccinated, that you continue to wear a mask and social distance. The CDC guidance on masking and social distancing hasn't changed for the unvaccinated.
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el_super
Well-Known Member
That's a pretty narrow viewpoint. That 99% would drop considerably as more variants are created and hospitalization availability decreases.
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
Let’s apply this vax vs no vax logic to another line of thinking: I say if we really should repeal drunk driving laws.
Statistically “only” 3.2 in every 100,000 individuals in the U.S. die in drunk driving accidents and usually (through only the eyes of the driver) in the event of a collision the driver themselves statistically speaking likely survives the accident anyway. Plus it ensures maximum freedom, which is what we’re after.
Every time I’ve run into someone who’s tipsy they’ve always assured me they’re fine to drive too, so what’s it the government’s business to take their rights away. Cogent argument, I think.
Statistically “only” 3.2 in every 100,000 individuals in the U.S. die in drunk driving accidents and usually (through only the eyes of the driver) in the event of a collision the driver themselves statistically speaking likely survives the accident anyway. Plus it ensures maximum freedom, which is what we’re after.
Every time I’ve run into someone who’s tipsy they’ve always assured me they’re fine to drive too, so what’s it the government’s business to take their rights away. Cogent argument, I think.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I find your example interesting considering your username. Haha
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I’m a also a bit of a hypochondriac at times as I’m super in tune with my body it seems. One time at the dentist I felt this uncomfortable rush when they injected the epinephrine(?) that scared the hell out of me. So much so that I told them I’d rather feel the pain on the other side of my mouth than get another shot of that stuff. So one cavity got filled with no pain killer at all
SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
There's lots of evidence that suggests this isn't the case- and that mask usage isn't nearly as effective as some would like to believe. I understand those who are resistant to wearing masks are an easy target, but let's not act like they're the reason for the plague.
BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
“ In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
Of the 1,233 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2016, 214 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1
In 2016, more than 1 million drivers were arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol or narcotics.3 That’s one percent of the 111 million self-reported episodes of alcohol-impaired driving among U.S. adults each year (figure below).”
1,233 deaths/111 million self reported cases = .001% of drunk driving incidents as a percentage of self reported drunk driving instances resulting in fatalities. A rarity to be sure, but a preventable tragedy nonetheless.
For this reason one could argue: 1) the preponderance of laws on the books keeps these rates down artificially; and 2) even in cases where a risk may be statistically improbable there is a governmental interest in legislating behavior to help ensuring the protection of others who can’t help themselves.
el_super
Well-Known Member
That's not really an excuse to violate public health orders. It's just not that hard to wear a mask. Resistance to wearing one, is certainly coming from a place of fear.
October82
Well-Known Member
This is false. Mask usage is very effective. Systematic meta-analyses looking at hundreds of individual studies on mask usage have found very large reductions in infection and transmission rates (as measured by odds ratios and effective reproductive number) with corresponding very small confidence intervals. This makes perfect sense - Covid is primarily transmitted on large respiratory droplets that would otherwise linger in poorly ventilated indoor environments. Masks prevent those respiratory droplets from being in the air, in the first place, which is good source control. Masks also have the secondary effect, especially higher grade ones, of keeping you from directly inhaling those droplets. It's not just Covid - masking has also led to record low cases of colds and influenza - and we see similarly large effects for those diseases.
We need to stop acting like finding out who to blame, or not to blame, is more important than stopping Covid from spreading. Covid doesn't care if you're the reason for the plague or not, it just wants to use you to make more of itself and spread to others.
If people don't want to get vaccinated, masking is the only way we can prevent needless illness and death, and unfortunately the honor system just hasn't worked.
smooch
Well-Known Member
I know I'm a few pages late for this point but after reading to catch up I noticed multiple people saying masks were giving people PTSD and tying that to nurses saying there's been increases in su*c*des / attempts, is this a serious argument? That masks are causing PTSD and driving people to su*c*de? I highly highly doubt wearing a mask is what's pushing people over the edge, and would attribute that more to social isolation we all went through, the worst loss of jobs in decades in the country, people being unable to afford rent, not receiving any assistance for these conditions, and potentially losing friends and family members from a novel viral disease, not to mention the civil unrest and all the political conflict surrounding the BLM protests, election, etc. Sorry if I'm being rude but I really don't know who gets PTSD from putting on a mask, or how it has "caused health problems" according to some people. People in other countries wear them all the time especially when sick when going about their lives and there's never been a problem in those countries, is there something magical in the air in the US that causes masks to make people sick? Why do surgeons not have problems performing operations for multiple hours while wearing a mask? If you can't breathe in a mask consider switching from a cloth mask to a single use paper one, they're much more comfortable / easier to breathe in.
As others have said it feels like lots of people (not in this thread, just in the country in general) have not paid attention to anything from the last year and have not changed their minds on the science / facts since the pandemic started and we knew nothing about COVID. It's honestly exhausting, and the most exhausting part to me is the people who scream the loudest about masks and lockdowns are also the reason they are coming back because they refuse to get vaccinated, it would be ironically funny if it wasn't affecting the entire country. I feel like it's pretty simple, if more people get vaccinated then the virus spreads less and is less severe in those who do contract it. If more people get vaccinated then we won't go back to masks indoors and such. At a certain point people exercising their "freedom" to not get vaccinated causes sickness, death, and economic destruction. Someone said that the government's job isn't to keep you safe when that is the literal reason our government was founded, we give up some of our individual freedoms in exchange for a government that serves our interests and protects us, both from foreign and domestic issues.
Obviously this is all complicated with many facets of how it affects us individually and as a country, but I feel tired of this. It feels like lots of people are stuck in their perception of the virus at the start of the pandemic and refuse to admit they're wrong and change their understanding as we learn more about the virus over a year later. And like others said before our country doesn't care about the common good anymore, people are selfish and cause harm to themselves and others because they don't want to be inconvenienced by putting a mask on to go grocery shopping and act like we are living under a totalitarian dictatorship because some people want others to wear masks for their 30 minute grocery store trip so they don't unknowingly spread a disease in the middle of a global pandemic. Rugged American individualism is destroying our nation's sense of unity, and even local communities.
As others have said it feels like lots of people (not in this thread, just in the country in general) have not paid attention to anything from the last year and have not changed their minds on the science / facts since the pandemic started and we knew nothing about COVID. It's honestly exhausting, and the most exhausting part to me is the people who scream the loudest about masks and lockdowns are also the reason they are coming back because they refuse to get vaccinated, it would be ironically funny if it wasn't affecting the entire country. I feel like it's pretty simple, if more people get vaccinated then the virus spreads less and is less severe in those who do contract it. If more people get vaccinated then we won't go back to masks indoors and such. At a certain point people exercising their "freedom" to not get vaccinated causes sickness, death, and economic destruction. Someone said that the government's job isn't to keep you safe when that is the literal reason our government was founded, we give up some of our individual freedoms in exchange for a government that serves our interests and protects us, both from foreign and domestic issues.
Obviously this is all complicated with many facets of how it affects us individually and as a country, but I feel tired of this. It feels like lots of people are stuck in their perception of the virus at the start of the pandemic and refuse to admit they're wrong and change their understanding as we learn more about the virus over a year later. And like others said before our country doesn't care about the common good anymore, people are selfish and cause harm to themselves and others because they don't want to be inconvenienced by putting a mask on to go grocery shopping and act like we are living under a totalitarian dictatorship because some people want others to wear masks for their 30 minute grocery store trip so they don't unknowingly spread a disease in the middle of a global pandemic. Rugged American individualism is destroying our nation's sense of unity, and even local communities.
SoCalDisneyLover
Well-Known Member
Congressman Mo Brooks sent a letter to President Biden, requesting that he remove the requirement that's been imposed for servicemen/servicewomen at Fort Rucker, be required to wear masks if not vaccinated. I won't post the whole long letter, where he basically furthers the mistrust of vaccines, just the relevant snippet regarding masks. Please try to contain laughter.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention states that those who are vaccinated do not have to wear masks any longer.[10] Your Administration has rightly turned away from “vaccine passports.”[11] Your chief medical advisor, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, states cloth masks are “not really effective in keeping out virus.”[12] N95 and N100 masks are the most effective yet they are not being distributed to all military personnel for use. Yet, at Fort Rucker, masks (even those that are so poor they help spread COVID-19 rather than help contain it) are now required everywhere if you cannot prove you have been vaccinated.
Further, and although still early, I suspect time will reveal that masks, while arguably promoting health, also endanger the health of those who wear them. Masks have small fibers that regularly loosen and are lodged in users’ lungs. Some masks have inks and dyes which, when consumed by lungs, have unknown cancer and other health risks. Certainly, all or almost all masks reduce oxygen intake into the human body, with all the risks this imposes. There is also the unknown risk that, in the heat and humidity of summers in the South, heat stroke risks increase among mask wearers.
castleparker
Well-Known Member
You know what's sad? A disturbing amount of people on here will agree with that last paragraph.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Certainly sounds plausibile.
October82
Well-Known Member
Ouch! I can't imagine how painful that must have been!
October82
Well-Known Member
I spent a few minutes looking into this. It turns out that, in laboratory tests, mask wearing actually reduces inhalation of fibers as compared to controls. The reason for this is that the environment is already full of micro plastic and cloth fibers, and masks largely prevent you from inhaling them while shedding comparatively few fibers of their own.
The range of fiber sizes that typically causes lung disease are also much smaller than, say, cloth fibers. If you're worried about this, wear an N95 - laboratory tests show they don't shed very much - not that any mask sheds much in the first place. Regardless, there's no link between mask wearing and respiratory cancers.
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