Congress Questions Next Gen

[Sarah Rae]

I'm getting the impression that a lot of people are overreacting. I don't see this as a huge deal. It's not like Disney (or any company, for that matter) cares what I do. They care about what people in my demographic do. How are they supposed to figure that out? Surveys? Surveys are biased and people lie. If you are worried about your every move being tracked, don't give your bracelet charging privileges. Don't give them your cell phone number (or hey! Turn off your phone, you're on vacation). Look! Now it's a KTTW card that is especially ugly. I'm not entirely familiar with the technology that would be used to "track" you, but from what I understand, at this point, isn't it just tracking points where you "check in" with the bracelet? It's not a GPS. And even if it were, they don't care where you are at any given point in time. Why would they?

Also, every time I think about this, I think about the Shoppers Optimum Card (Canadians, holla at me). It's basically an awesome rewards card for a Canadian drug store chain. It's free, and you get points, like any other rewards card. Except I've read a bit about it, and it's got one of the best money spent=rewards earned payoffs. You just swipe every time you purchase something there, and you save your points for $20, $50, $80 etc off your purchase when you reach your next reward level. Awesome, right?! Well, not if you're concerned about "privacy infringement". They know that I am a 22 year old female from Toronto living in London. They also know every single thing that I have bought at Shoppers in the last 4 years (when I signed up). Do I care? No! Because it does not inconvenience me in any way. Does my demographic info and shopping habbits (and that of every other female in my university town) mean they stock more nail polish and argan oil (for hair, very trendy)? Maybe. Great!! I love those things! Do I have to buy them? No. Do I know without a doubt that my personal info was used? Nope. Couldn't care less. I recently got to my $80 reward level and went on a shopping spree. No one is under any obligation to sign up for an Optimum card. And if you are a one time or occasional shopper, there's no reason to. And your shopping experience will not be lessened. But if you spend a crap ton of money there, why wouldn't you? They can have that basic info from me if it means that the products may be more suited to my style (not to mention the sweet payout).

Do you have a credit card? Air Miles? Any reward card, anywhere? I don't see too much of a difference.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

So does this fall under the any kind of publicity is good publicity thingy?

Jimmy Thick- It can't be all bad...Can it?

 

[Nmoody1]

I really think that people are lowing this whole MyMagic+ thing right ou of the water. In 10 years time we'll have this everywhere, Disney are getting attacked because they are doing it with a wristband - if they had just carried on doing it as part of a key to the world card and slowly implemented the wrist bands, I think there would be less outcry.

We're in an age where you can pay for products in stores through RFID, where you can pay for a product with chip and pin, where Facebook tracks your location, your iPad tells google where you are.

I don't understand what the outcry is with Disney knowing what you've purchased, where you purchased it, who you are travelling with.,.. I thinks all needs to be given a chance. Let's face it, Disney Cruise Line has been doing it for years - your room manifest says who's staying in a room, when you drop your kids off, where you had pictures taken - with facial recognition, what products you purchased and when you are on and off the ship.

Calm down people - big brother is always watching, I'd rather big either be Mickey!

 

[Nmoody1]

Plus.... A congressman is questioning this???? Surely there are more pressing things for congress to worry about???

 

[Monty]

I'm getting the impression that a lot of people are overreacting. I don't see this as a huge deal. It's not like Disney (or any company, for that matter) cares what I do. They care about what people in my demographic do. How are they supposed to figure that out? Surveys? Surveys are biased and people lie. If you are worried about your every move being tracked, don't give your bracelet charging privileges. Don't give them your cell phone number (or hey! Turn off your phone, you're on vacation). Look! Now it's a KTTW card that is especially ugly. I'm not entirely familiar with the technology that would be used to "track" you, but from what I understand, at this point, isn't it just tracking points where you "check in" with the bracelet? It's not a GPS. And even if it were, they don't care where you are at any given point in time. Why would they?

Also, every time I think about this, I think about the Shoppers Optimum Card (Canadians, holla at me). It's basically an awesome rewards card for a Canadian drug store chain. It's free, and you get points, like any other rewards card. Except I've read a bit about it, and it's got one of the best money spent=rewards earned payoffs. You just swipe every time you purchase something there, and you save your points for $20, $50, $80 etc off your purchase when you reach your next reward level. Awesome, right?! Well, not if you're concerned about "privacy infringement". They know that I am a 22 year old female from Toronto living in London. They also know every single thing that I have bought at Shoppers in the last 4 years (when I signed up). Do I care? No! Because it does not inconvenience me in any way. Does my demographic info and shopping habbits (and that of every other female in my university town) mean they stock more nail polish and argan oil (for hair, very trendy)? Maybe. Great!! I love those things! Do I have to buy them? No. Do I know without a doubt that my personal info was used? Nope. Couldn't care less. I recently got to my $80 reward level and went on a shopping spree. No one is under any obligation to sign up for an Optimum card. And if you are a one time or occasional shopper, there's no reason to. And your shopping experience will not be lessened. But if you spend a crap ton of money there, why wouldn't you? They can have that basic info from me if it means that the products may be more suited to my style (not to mention the sweet payout).

Do you have a credit card? Air Miles? Any reward card, anywhere? I don't see too much of a difference.

Holla

 

[Skyway]

Do you have a credit card? Air Miles? Any reward card, anywhere? I don't see too much of a difference.

You're right. About adults.

Can someone please give me one example...A SINGLE EXAMPLE...of a reward card issued to a child younger than 12 years old in their name that they have full control to use.

I'm not talking about mom and dad signing up for an additional airline miles card so when they travel Little Sally also gets points, or the discount card mom gets at Build-A-Bear.

Because even if parents voluntarily sign their children up for MyMagic online (which may very well be legal consent, we don't know yet), the fact remains that the child is "sharing" personal information when they walk into a store or attraction.

Is that the same as a parent giving Little Sally permission to fill out surveys on a website?

Or does it cross the line into illegally coercing data out of a non-consenting minor?

And even if it is legal, is it ethical? (Would it be ethical for a Disney employee to wave over a child and whisper questions to them without their parents listening in?)

It's never been done before quite like this on this scale and will certainly test the boundaries of the law.

 

[G00fyDad]

You're right. About adults.

Can someone please give me one example...A SINGLE EXAMPLE...of a reward card issued to a child younger than 12 years old in their name that they have full control to use.

I'm not talking about mom and dad signing up for an additional airline miles card so when they travel Little Sally also gets points, or the discount card mom gets at Build-A-Bear.

Because even if parents voluntarily sign their children up for MyMagic online (which may very well be legal consent, we don't know yet), the fact remains that the child is "sharing" personal information when they walk into a store or attraction.

Is that the same as a parent giving Little Sally permission to fill out surveys on a website?

Or does it cross the line into illegally coercing data out of a non-consenting minor?

And even if it is legal, is it ethical? (Would it be ethical for a Disney employee to wave over a child and whisper questions to them without their parents listening in?)

It's never been done before quite like this on this scale and will certainly test the boundaries of the law.

Can you please give me one example...A SINGLE EXAMPLE...of a child's tracked activity leading to anything bad? I can give you one example of a positive to this for tracking a child. Abductions.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Sorry for reposting the below but in light of Rep. Markey’s recent letter, it again seems pertinent.

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” – U.S. Constitution, 4th Amendment

“The Government’s attachment of the GPS device to the vehicle, and its use of that device to monitor the vehicles movements, constitutes a search under the Fourth Amendment.” – United States v. Jones, 2012

“The Government usurped Jones’ property for the purpose of conducting surveillance on him, thereby invading privacy interests long afforded, and undoubtedly entitled to, Fourth Amendment protection.” – Justice Sonia Sotomayor, United States v. Jones, 2012

“In the pre-computer age, the greatest protections of privacy were neither constitutional nor statutory, but practical. Traditional surveillance for any extended period of time was difficult and costly and therefore rarely undertaken. The surveillance at issue in this case — constant monitoring of the location of a vehicle for four weeks — would have required a large team of agents, multiple vehicles, and perhaps aerial assistance. Only an investigation of unusual importance could have justified such an expenditure of law enforcement resources. Devices like the one used in the present case, however, make long-term monitoring relatively easy and cheap. In circumstances involving dramatic technological change, the best solution to privacy concerns may be legislative.” – Justice Samuel Alito, United States v. Jones, 2012

“Big Brother in the form of an increasingly powerful government and in an increasingly powerful private sector will pile the records high with reasons why privacy should give way to national security, to law and order, to efficiency of operations, to scientific advancement, and the like. The cause of privacy will be won or lost essentially in legislative halls and in constitutional assemblies. If it is won, this pluralistic society of ours will experience a spiritual renewal. If it is lost we will have written our own prescription for mediocrity and conformity.” – Justice William Douglas, Points of Rebellion, 1969

"It is not the breaking of a man's doors and the rummaging of his drawers that constitutes the essence of the offense; but it is the invasion of his indefeasible right of personal security, personal liberty and private property, where that right has never been forfeited by his conviction of some public offense." - Justice Joseph Bradley, Boyd v. United States, 1886

“The real danger is the gradual erosion of individual liberties through automation, integration, and interconnection of many small, separate record-keeping systems, each of which alone may seem innocuous, even benevolent, and wholly justifiable.” - U. S. Privacy Study Commission, 1977

“This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins.” – Ben Franklin

“Liberty exists in proportion to wholesome restraint; the more restraint on others to keep off from us, the more liberty we have.” - Daniel Webster

“The 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.” - Alex Carey

“No matter how many times a privileged straight white male technology executive pronounces the death of privacy, Privacy Is Not Dead. People of all ages care deeply about privacy. And they care just as much about privacy online as they do offline.” – Danah Boyd, Making Sense of Privacy and Publicity

“The most effective way to restrict democracy is to transfer decision-making from the public arena to unaccountable institutions: kings and princes, priestly castes, military juntas, party dictatorships, or modern corporations.” - Noam Chomsky

“There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time.” - George Orwell, 1984

"Big Brother is Watching You." - George Orwell, 1984

“Be seeing you.” - Patrick McGoohan, The Prisoner

The Mouse intends to track your movements. Where does it end? If left unchecked, what will private corporations be doing 10 years, 20 years from now?

Our individual liberties are what make us who we are. Once we begin to accept that we should not fight for our liberties, that we should passively accept the status quo, we have conceded that the fate of our democracy rests in the hands of “kings and princes, priestly castes, military juntas, party dictatorships, or modern corporations.”

As suggested by Justice Sotomayor in last year’s U.S. v. Jones ruling, there are many learned and influential people who already consider the use of tracking devices to be an invasion of privacy and a violation of the 4th Amendment. As suggested by Justice Alito in that same ruling, technology has developed faster than our political process to keep pace with it. All of this was foreseen by Justice Douglas in 1969 and the U. S. Privacy Study Commission in 1977. We have now reached the tipping point where, if left unchecked, we can be monitored by private corporations 24/7. Last year’s ruling shows that the battle is being fought today in both the legislature and in the courts. The path our democracy follows will be decided within the next decade. Will our children thank us for having fought for our liberties or curse us for having surrendered them to governments and corporations?

“The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.” – Robert Hutchins

The words of Pete Clemenza in The Godfather seem appropriate:

“You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble.”

 

[G00fyDad]

Sorry folks. I don't give a rats *** (or a mouse's) what they track on me. I don't care if they know every move that I make. I have nothing to hide. And with that I leave this ever growing cloud of conspiracy behind.

 

[jt04]

As I have said many times it is not what Disney does or does not do with the tech. The problem is who they will sell the technology to and how scalable it will be. Congressional oversight is warrented. Some of you know nothing of history. Pathetic.

 

[wdwfan100]

They should question it. I'm sure Disney's lawyers will have answers to every question. There is a lot of fear about how Disney will be tracking our every move, maybe this will help us get some real answers.

Apple and google already are tracking our every move. It seems to pass muster for them.

 

[Skyway]

I can give you one example of a positive to this for tracking a child. Abductions.

Yep, the bracelet will certainly stop all those kidnappings that have occurred in the 58 years of Disney theme parks. Assuming the kidnapper doesn't rip the plastic bracelet off.

If tracking children online is no big deal, why are there laws against it? For that matter, why are their laws limiting children from viewing ads for alcohol, tobacco, violence, and sexually explicit materials during daytime kids programming?

 

[jt04]

Apple and google already are tracking our every move. It seems to pass muster for them.

This needs government oversight also.

 

[Rose&Crowner]

Whoever said, "My sandbox, my rules. If you don't like it don't come" is right.

I personally can't wait to get a wristband, and truly don't care if Walt knows I'm at WDW doing things I intended to do when I got there. If the bands make it better for me to be there, I say bring them on.

Some folks may think that the congressman is actually concerned, not just whipping his constituents, they're wrong. Others may think that they're just gleaning information because they're going to use MyMagic+ as the blueprint for the MyAmericanCitizenship+ embedded nanochip installed at birth, they're wearing the finest chapeaus of tin.

Everyone needs to relax.

 

[HM Spectre]

In fact, they have every incentive to track your movements and behaviors on their property. That's just smart business.

It's not smart business.

It may be in theory but that's assuming that people accept it and profess their love for Big Brother with smiles on their faces. If they don't, what happens is that the trust between Disney and their customer is eroded and that is NOT smart business. Families trust Disney, whether it's believing that the Disney label means "family friendly", their child's safety at the parks or whatever the case may be... if it gets out there that Disney wants to track everything their guests are doing to the point of creepy detail, that trust gets eroded as does the value of the brand.

Look at what happened with MySpace... it was THE social media site until creepers and stalkers started popping up, eroding that trust to the point where people didn't feel safe. Facebook comes along promising a safe environment that requires a college e-mail address to get in and promising privacy controls and voila, everyone fled MySpace for Facebook because there was a security and trust there. Even with Facebook, every time they violate that trust by increasing datamining/reducing privacy, the outrage is intense. Eventually if they keep violating that trust, people will leave it for a place they feel safer.

No one wants to be datamined. Still, if it's done to a small degree, people are willing to play along. When it's done to a greater scale, warning flags go up. When it's done on an outrageous scale to the point where all movement and activity is tracked not only for the parent but their CHILDREN, it's done by a company they're already paying a lot of money to vacation with AND there isn't an opt out clause... well that's going to freak people out to the point where it damages Disney's brand and they lose business. The only way this NextGen crap succeeds at the scale they've designed it at is if the public is blind to it. When this gets visability, it's going to be a public relations DISASTER.

So yeah, if operated in the bubble of a board room meeting, having all this data to work with sounds like smart business. The problem is that when operated on Main Street USA, it requires the cooperation of people... people who, simply put, aren't going to put up with a ridiculous data grab and tracking system targeted at their children like NextGen. If public awareness is raised high enough on this, get some popcorn ready because there's going to be fireworks.

 

[Tigger1988]

I don't know a single person who left MySpace because they didn't feel safe. It became tacky and "uncool" at a rapid speed and people moved onto the next big thing. Also by the time myspace died Facebook was no longer exclusively for college students. Anyone with an email could start an account.

 

[DisneyWales]

Well this is no worse than Google who do this already on a much larger scale. If you buy into any Google service they are profiling and profiting from you. Google Wallet, Google Talk, Google Search, Google mail, Chrome, Chomebook, Google Energy, Google Maps, Android and YouTube, I could go on. They track and log everything you do and cross reference that to deliver better apps and track your information, so why is this any different.

Disney can track this already as people have said via keys to the kingdom cards, this is just a more streamlined system.

For me the part I don't like is the potential impact this will have on my casual approach to the parks, if i now need to plan 60days ahead to be able to enjoy a basic day at the parks i will be more upset than them knowing where and what I've bought at their resorts.

Also RE the concern about children's safety, if people wanted to know if your child is alone at the hotel room their are easier ways for horrible people to know, they can just linger near your room, rather than break into/bypass a computer system to check what they can find out just by looking with their eyes.

Plus RFID devices themselves cannot contain a massive amount of data. They will most likely contain a user number/code which is then downloaded by a *till* *turnstile* *insert device* which then cross references that will a database containing the actual information.

Will people be able to hack that information for surreptitious reasons? I'm sure they will, but no more so than the methods used today, i.e. going to a terminal and hacking into it.

 

[Clowd Nyne]

Except, y'know, that Facebook and Amazon don't know exactly where you are and what you're doing at every moment of the day.

Regardless, this ought to make for one of the more interesting broadcasts on CSPAN...

They do if your iPhone is connected and you have locations activated. Plus if you're scared of next gen don't use it

 

[danlb_2000]

As I have said many times it is not what Disney does or does not do with the tech. The problem is who they will sell the technology to and how scalable it will be. Congressional oversight is warrented. Some of you know nothing of history. Pathetic.

As I have pointed out before there is nothing revolutionary about this technology, at least not that I have seen so far. Any company that wants to do something like this has had the ability using off the shelf equipment for quite a while now, they don't need Disney's help to do it.

Here is a project that has been around since 2006 that uses free software and off the shelf hardware to setup RFID tracking:

http://www.openbeacon.org/

And here is an article about an RFID tracking and touch payment system that was deployed to a couple amusement parks back in 2005:

http://rense.com/general62/RRFF.HTM

 

[Clowd Nyne]

This just in. RFID sensors in all beds at WDW. Take off your wristband before bed so they don't know about Mr. Nyne's wild ride.