Club 32 Lounge

[spacemt354]

Tom also mentions to look at the overall plan first, then each land, then the art representing each idea for the overall plan and lands.

Maybe...since @D Hindley I know a while ago we were talking about the American Wharf land, perhaps we can focus big picture for now, and work our way down to the details. As in let's design the whole park first, get the overall picture, then continue into detailing the lands and attractions.

This might help give that "1,2,3 read" factor to the project that Tom was talking about. Having the larger plan finalized before detailing it with art for the individual areas. We keep what we have -- but now take the focus to "big picture" which might really help us create a scope and scale for the project. Thoughts everyone?

 

[spacemt354]

It definitely seems three dimensional!

Definitely leans that way. I have to keep in mind when I'm drawing where the lights are at all times and remind myself I'm essentially drawing the shadows and areas not directly lit, not the object itself.

Forgot to respond to this but thank you!

I was actually learning it from one of Tom's art lesson videos on how to first draw 3D images -- still need to practice though!

 

[Tom Thordarson]

Quick add here!! Great stuff you guys!! Coming along!! I don't know what level of drawing most of you are at, but work on lots of creative "details" too....loose but full of original thinking. For example...if you have a ride. Do a sheet of thoughts on the ride vehicle. Try original variations. For example, recently, on a non-Disney related project, I was working on a ride where the client wanted a suspended vehicle (like Peter Pan). They had a story already written about the ride and that the guests somehow had to be flying with or on or powered by, giant butterflies. SO I did a rough sketch page showing some possibilities .Attached here. Keep these rough...they are "thinking drawings". Do a lot of thinking drawing even before you tackle your p.o.v's . This will help make the concepts more "original" and unique.

 

[JackWatkinson]

Tom also mentions to look at the overall plan first, then each land, then the art representing each idea for the overall plan and lands.

Maybe...since @D Hindley I know a while ago we were talking about the American Wharf land, perhaps we can focus big picture for now, and work our way down to the details. As in let's design the whole park first, get the overall picture, then continue into detailing the lands and attractions.

This might help give that "1,2,3 read" factor to the project that Tom was talking about. Having the larger plan finalized before detailing it with art for the individual areas. We keep what we have -- but now take the focus to "big picture" which might really help us create a scope and scale for the project. Thoughts everyone?

This seems a logical way about going about things. I thought i'd see what was going on since i'm starting a little late here at celebration. It's great to have Tom's perspective on how to approach this project and it will only benefit us all in the future i'm sure!

 

[spacemt354]

This seems a logical way about going about things. I thought i'd see what was going on since i'm starting a little late here at celebration. It's great to have Tom's perspective on how to approach this project and it will only benefit us all in the future i'm sure!

Absolutely! It will definitely help us going forward. We should try those "thinking drawings" that Tom was talking about from now on, not just for Fantasyland but for the park as a whole.

Thanks again Tom for the advice!

 

[Tom Thordarson]

My pleasure.... one more "thinking drawing" here. I notice a lot of buildings and architecture in your ideas, however, most is pretty "normal" and not a lot of variety in the proportions. Do some thinking on each store or ride facade or even small vending huts...etc. Each should have it's own little "story" to support its overall "fit" in the land it's in.
Do a lot of these thinking pages! In a sketch book. Then you cn get excited about some that really are your favorites or team favorites and put them in key areas in your master plans. SOme may become "weenies". This process will insure that you don't just have plain old European buildings or signs that are not enticing and alluring. In a theme park...EVERY single thing is a "prop" and a character and should not just "be there"...but be creatively placed and something very unique. Think beyond what you already see in Disney or other theme parks.
Be really true to your story...EVERYTHING should tell a story or support one...even at a quick glance! Here's another sample I did. This was for some little shops and snack shacks in a theme park concept I can't mention...but gives an idea as to what I mean . O.K...that's all for now!! I will let you guys chew on all this for a week or two! ~~THOR

 

[spacemt354]

Thank you so much Tom! Will definitely take this advice!

@Voxel you might like to see this.

 

[Voxel]

My pleasure.... one more "thinking drawing" here. I notice a lot of buildings and architecture in your ideas, however, most is pretty "normal" and not a lot of variety in the proportions. Do some thinking on each store or ride facade or even small vending huts...etc. Each should have it's own little "story" to support its overall "fit" in the land it's in.
Do a lot of these thinking pages! In a sketch book. Then you cn get excited about some that really are your favorites or team favorites and put them in key areas in your master plans. SOme may become "weenies". This process will insure that you don't just have plain old European buildings or signs that are not enticing and alluring. In a theme park...EVERY single thing is a "prop" and a character and should not just "be there"...but be creatively placed and something very unique. Think beyond what you already see in Disney or other theme parks.
Be really true to your story...EVERYTHING should tell a story or support one...even at a quick glance! Here's another sample I did. This was for some little shops and snack shacks in a theme park concept I can't mention...but gives an idea as to what I mean . O.K...that's all for now!! I will let you guys chew on all this for a week or two! ~~THOR
View attachment 199819

Beautiful post, beautiful!

 

[spacemt354]

Beautiful post, beautiful!

Tom designed the concept art for Journey to the Center of the Earth among other projects -- such an amazing talent and honor to learn from him!

 

[Voxel]

Forgot to respond to this but thank you!

I was actually learning it from one of Tom's art lesson videos on how to first draw 3D images -- still need to practice though!

I need to watch some of these.

 

[JackWatkinson]

From what I can see we need to think about are park. Not just what is there and what lands etc. but what stories we will tell. What experiences do we want guests to have that is not what you expect but something guests will never forget. We need to give our park its own identity so its OUR park and not a Magic Kingdom replica. Thats what I can gather from Toms comments.

 

[Voxel]

From what I can see we need to think about are park. Not just what is there and what lands etc. but what stories we will tell. What experiences do we want guests to have that is not what you expect but something guests will never forget. We need to give our park its own identity so its OUR park and not a Magic Kingdom replica. Thats what I can gather from Toms comments.

Bingo, you want to learn from the other design and make it familiar yet distinctly different.


@spacemt354 I guess it's a good time to say I'm coming out of retirement on the forum.

 

[spacemt354]

I need to watch some of these.

I'm practicing the squiggle tree technique... it's coming along! Just gotta keep at it

 

[spacemt354]

Bingo, you want to learn from the other design and make it familiar yet distinctly different.


@spacemt354 I guess it's a good time to say I'm coming out of retirement on the forum.

Exactly what I gathered from the feedback as well. Back to the drawing board!

Also great news!!

 

[Voxel]

Exactly what I gathered from the feedback as well. Back to the drawing board!

Also great news!!

Yea spending a lot of the times in the parks has inspired me, plus I miss having the creative avenue. (Once I complete this class I promise I will upload all the previous projects down by Eng and I). I might revisit them and update them a bit. I am also still working on my Tomorrowland based park idea.

 

[Tom Thordarson]

Great!! YES!!! You understand !! Make this your OWN!! LEt's take...I dunno..."Jolly Holiday" for example. I love this idea!! If I were asked to make a section inside a Land on this theme...I would first think. O.K...What are some really cool possibilities based on "Mary poppins". I would not limit myself. This is what is called "blue sky" phase at Disney.

So....just as some way to organize my thinking I might say....what can be part of this theme.
1. Rides or shows, and snack places in "Jolly Holiday": Ideas are....
a. a "Fantasyland" like ride quickly taking you through the movie key scenes
b. Maybe an interactive kids attraction where kids draw a chalk painting and it animates and
is programmed so the penguins and "Bert" dance and play in your drawing!
c. Maybe an AP for personal devices can be downloaded and it turns things you
focus your camera on into ...chalk drawings!! You save snapshots and post on social media!! FUN!!
d. "The Chimney sweeps comedy acrobatic stunt show" !! A roof top show where incredible musical
and special FX's happen at Dusk and 9 PM....colored smoking chimneys with projections on them,
amazing building acrobatics of the chimney sweeps!! A really fun spectacular!! The shadows of the chimney sweeps on the buildings even "leave" the performers, climb down the sides of the building and dance in front of the audience before turning into crows and flying into the night!! LOL! (very doable too!)
e. The "Love to laugh" upside down tea party cafe!! This is an entire "tea party" experience where guests
sit in a room that appears everything is upside down!! your table is on the ceiling (you sit right side up though)...and a large lCD screen plays outside the main tea room in the tea and cookie gift shop...making it look like people eating inside are just like the scene in the movie!!
f. The "run away carousel horse" ride!! A ride that starts as a regular carousel...then it suddenly breaks apart and you all go on a fun "race" in a hedge maze and magical adventure...then back to formation as a carousel before exit!

I could go on and on and on.... So this is how an "Imagineer" would start thinking. Artists would start sketching and writers would start writing story treatments and outlines. Ride tech guys might chime in and say...OH!! Yah..I know a ride system that would totally work for the run away carousel horses!! A trackless vehicle system that is perfect!! ...and the Ap for the chalk drawing conversion...TOTALLY doable!! ...etc.

Anyway. Just nudging you all to think big and be creative! Don't just copy what exists...go beyond it. Do a LOT of ideas....and pick from the best in the end. You will create something truly amazing! ~~~T

 

[Voxel]

Great!! YES!!! You understand !! Make this your OWN!! LEt's take...I dunno..."Jolly Holiday" for example. I love this idea!! If I were asked to make a section inside a Land on this theme...I would first think. O.K...What are some really cool possibilities based on "Mary poppins". I would not limit myself. This is what is called "blue sky" phase at Disney.

So....just as some way to organize my thinking I might say....what can be part of this theme.
1. Rides or shows, and snack places in "Jolly Holiday": Ideas are....
a. a "Fantasyland" like ride quickly taking you through the movie key scenes
b. Maybe an interactive kids attraction where kids draw a chalk painting and it animates and
is programmed so the penguins and "Bert" dance and play in your drawing!
c. Maybe an AP for personal devices can be downloaded and it turns things you
focus your camera on into ...chalk drawings!! You save snapshots and post on social media!! FUN!!
d. "The Chimney sweeps comedy acrobatic stunt show" !! A roof top show where incredible musical
and special FX's happen at Dusk and 9 PM....colored smoking chimneys with projections on them,
amazing building acrobatics of the chimney sweeps!! A really fun spectacular!! The shadows of the chimney sweeps on the buildings even "leave" the performers, climb down the sides of the building and dance in front of the audience before turning into crows and flying into the night!! LOL! (very doable too!)
e. The "Love to laugh" upside down tea party cafe!! This is an entire "tea party" experience where guests
sit in a room that appears everything is upside down!! your table is on the ceiling (you sit right side up though)...and a large lCD screen plays outside the main tea room in the tea and cookie gift shop...making it look like people eating inside are just like the scene in the movie!!
f. The "run away carousel horse" ride!! A ride that starts as a regular carousel...then it suddenly breaks apart and you all go on a fun "race" in a hedge maze and magical adventure...then back to formation as a carousel before exit!

I could go on and on and on.... So this is how an "Imagineer" would start thinking. Artists would start sketching and writers would start writing story treatments and outlines. Ride tech guys might chime in and say...OH!! Yah..I know a ride system that would totally work for the run away carousel horses!! A trackless vehicle system that is perfect!! ...and the Ap for the chalk drawing conversion...TOTALLY doable!! ...etc.

Anyway. Just nudging you all to think big and be creative! Don't just copy what exists...go beyond it. Do a LOT of ideas....and pick from the best in the end. You will create something truly amazing! ~~~T

I love your advice, this is so true! Thank you for this. And as you said we need to bounce ideas each of us have unique specializations and patterns. Some of this more along the lines of the technical system while others things about the theming.
Thank you so much, not only for this advice but giving me the inspiration kick to get back into this area of interest.

 

[D Hulk]

Great, thought-provoking stuff recently. Thanks to Tom ("Thor")!

Like @JackWatkinson, I'm late to this party, and deciphering this project's goals can be tricky when our threads are for brainstorming and workshopping. Perhaps @spacemt354 (great leadership so far, BTW), you could create a centralized "precis" for the project. Make it something like a Design Bible, where we can continually fine-tune the macro stuff such as the park's overall organization, goal, tone, story, etc. It makes sense why new Magic Kingdoms are so popular for hobbyist designers, as they put us on the same page automatically. It's also a challenge, when in a place like Tomorrowland we might have conflicting ideas about IP use, optimism vs. pessimism, and such. Let's improve on that!

To that end, I'm interested now in our overall guiding principle. (Excuse me, I can get wordy sometimes.) There are maybe two park-wide topics we might want to readdress now before moving forward: General layout, and the tone of the park.

General layout: Okay, so hub & spoke. There's a great organizing principle here! Four fundamental points on the compass (N, S, E, W), and four diagonal points between them (NE, SE, SW, NW), for eight lands. (For now I'm ignoring Villains Land and Critter Country, but we'll get to those.) Running from north to south, we go from fantasy to romanticized reality. From west to east, we move from the past to the future. The lands reflect this. At true north is true fantasy, Fantasyland. South is romanticized reality, Main Street. (The hub is neutral ground. And like Tokyo Disneyland, I can see sour roads from Main Street leading to the SE and SW lands before reaching the hub.)

The three lands to the east are all futuristic. The NE land (Discoveryland) is the most fantasy-driven, while World's Fair at SE is the most like Main Street, using a real world "futuristic" setting. Tomorrowland at true east is pure future.

Same thing for the west side, representing the past. Here, I propose rearranging the layout a bit! At true west, a true western: Frontierland. At SW, fusing with Main Street is American Wharf (our variation on the New Orleans/Liberty Square idea, themed here to San Francisco). Towards Fantasyland at NW is Adventureland, done in a more fantastical style. Of course, all this is tentative, and just my own brainstorming, so respond as you like.

As for Critter Country and Villains Land, neither of which fit this scheme perfectly, I propose placing them outside of the railroad berm, similarly to Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point in Hong Kong, or like how Star Wars Land at Disneyland is appearing behind the Rivers of America. Critter Country can extend outwards from Frontierland, and Villains Land from Fantasyland.

Tone of the park: Disneyland Paris reimagines a castle park in a more romanticized, fantastical way, reflecting and responding to the European culture. This starts with the castle, which is more storybook to set itself apart from Europe's real castles, and that style bleeds out to all other lands. In Shanghai, the castle is simply freaking gigantic, befitting China, which then defines the rest of the park's tone. Or take DisneySea (hello, Tom!), where a macro-theme of the sea, of nautical exploration, informs the icon volcano, which then informs the lands' individual weenies, which inform on down to the food carts. Are we doing something similar?

Fantasia Castle is a cool concept, and could inform the whole park. But how? I'm not sure, but we maybe need to really, REALLY perfect the castle before moving on. Maybe we could make an "adventure" park, like IOA or DisneySea or even DCA, or we could make something more somber and Gothic, or something more historical, or more optimistic, or whatever. A topic to discuss!

*****

So maybe we should create a parkwide story and tone first, and a layout to go with it. We then ID each land's weenies and E-tickets and stories before we then start to design any one land more specifically. I propose following a model that's been used by Imagineering, where someone (@spacemt354 perhaps) serves as project leader, and each land is developed at the same time by a different sub-lead.

Just some thoughts.

 

[JackWatkinson]

Great, thought-provoking stuff recently. Thanks to Tom ("Thor")!

Like @JackWatkinson, I'm late to this party, and deciphering this project's goals can be tricky when our threads are for brainstorming and workshopping. Perhaps @spacemt354 (great leadership so far, BTW), you could create a centralized "precis" for the project. Make it something like a Design Bible, where we can continually fine-tune the macro stuff such as the park's overall organization, goal, tone, story, etc. It makes sense why new Magic Kingdoms are so popular for hobbyist designers, as they put us on the same page automatically. It's also a challenge, when in a place like Tomorrowland we might have conflicting ideas about IP use, optimism vs. pessimism, and such. Let's improve on that!

To that end, I'm interested now in our overall guiding principle. (Excuse me, I can get wordy sometimes.) There are maybe two park-wide topics we might want to readdress now before moving forward: General layout, and the tone of the park.

General layout: Okay, so hub & spoke. There's a great organizing principle here! Four fundamental points on the compass (N, S, E, W), and four diagonal points between them (NE, SE, SW, NW), for eight lands. (For now I'm ignoring Villains Land and Critter Country, but we'll get to those.) Running from north to south, we go from fantasy to romanticized reality. From west to east, we move from the past to the future. The lands reflect this. At true north is true fantasy, Fantasyland. South is romanticized reality, Main Street. (The hub is neutral ground. And like Tokyo Disneyland, I can see sour roads from Main Street leading to the SE and SW lands before reaching the hub.)

The three lands to the east are all futuristic. The NE land (Discoveryland) is the most fantasy-driven, while World's Fair at SE is the most like Main Street, using a real world "futuristic" setting. Tomorrowland at true east is pure future.

Same thing for the west side, representing the past. Here, I propose rearranging the layout a bit! At true west, a true western: Frontierland. At SW, fusing with Main Street is American Wharf (our variation on the New Orleans/Liberty Square idea, themed here to San Francisco). Towards Fantasyland at NW is Adventureland, done in a more fantastical style. Of course, all this is tentative, and just my own brainstorming, so respond as you like.

As for Critter Country and Villains Land, neither of which fit this scheme perfectly, I propose placing them outside of the railroad berm, similarly to Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point in Hong Kong, or like how Star Wars Land at Disneyland is appearing behind the Rivers of America. Critter Country can extend outwards from Frontierland, and Villains Land from Fantasyland.

Tone of the park: Disneyland Paris reimagines a castle park in a more romanticized, fantastical way, reflecting and responding to the European culture. This starts with the castle, which is more storybook to set itself apart from Europe's real castles, and that style bleeds out to all other lands. In Shanghai, the castle is simply freaking gigantic, befitting China, which then defines the rest of the park's tone. Or take DisneySea (hello, Tom!), where a macro-theme of the sea, of nautical exploration, informs the icon volcano, which then informs the lands' individual weenies, which inform on down to the food carts. Are we doing something similar?

Fantasia Castle is a cool concept, and could inform the whole park. But how? I'm not sure, but we maybe need to really, REALLY perfect the castle before moving on. Maybe we could make an "adventure" park, like IOA or DisneySea or even DCA, or we could make something more somber and Gothic, or something more historical, or more optimistic, or whatever. A topic to discuss!

*****

So maybe we should create a parkwide story and tone first, and a layout to go with it. We then ID each land's weenies and E-tickets and stories before we then start to design any one land more specifically. I propose following a model that's been used by Imagineering, where someone (@spacemt354 perhaps) serves as project leader, and each land is developed at the same time by a different sub-lead.

Just some thoughts.

Good thoughts. I like the suggestion at the bottom especially with a park wide story that defines what our park is going to be. I also like the idea of sub leaders as well. I am also enjoying watching some guy carve a rancor out of vegetables on the star wars show

 

[spacemt354]

Great!! YES!!! You understand !! Make this your OWN!! LEt's take...I dunno..."Jolly Holiday" for example. I love this idea!! If I were asked to make a section inside a Land on this theme...I would first think. O.K...What are some really cool possibilities based on "Mary poppins". I would not limit myself. This is what is called "blue sky" phase at Disney.

So....just as some way to organize my thinking I might say....what can be part of this theme.
1. Rides or shows, and snack places in "Jolly Holiday": Ideas are....
a. a "Fantasyland" like ride quickly taking you through the movie key scenes
b. Maybe an interactive kids attraction where kids draw a chalk painting and it animates and
is programmed so the penguins and "Bert" dance and play in your drawing!
c. Maybe an AP for personal devices can be downloaded and it turns things you
focus your camera on into ...chalk drawings!! You save snapshots and post on social media!! FUN!!
d. "The Chimney sweeps comedy acrobatic stunt show" !! A roof top show where incredible musical
and special FX's happen at Dusk and 9 PM....colored smoking chimneys with projections on them,
amazing building acrobatics of the chimney sweeps!! A really fun spectacular!! The shadows of the chimney sweeps on the buildings even "leave" the performers, climb down the sides of the building and dance in front of the audience before turning into crows and flying into the night!! LOL! (very doable too!)
e. The "Love to laugh" upside down tea party cafe!! This is an entire "tea party" experience where guests
sit in a room that appears everything is upside down!! your table is on the ceiling (you sit right side up though)...and a large lCD screen plays outside the main tea room in the tea and cookie gift shop...making it look like people eating inside are just like the scene in the movie!!
f. The "run away carousel horse" ride!! A ride that starts as a regular carousel...then it suddenly breaks apart and you all go on a fun "race" in a hedge maze and magical adventure...then back to formation as a carousel before exit!

I could go on and on and on.... So this is how an "Imagineer" would start thinking. Artists would start sketching and writers would start writing story treatments and outlines. Ride tech guys might chime in and say...OH!! Yah..I know a ride system that would totally work for the run away carousel horses!! A trackless vehicle system that is perfect!! ...and the Ap for the chalk drawing conversion...TOTALLY doable!! ...etc.

Anyway. Just nudging you all to think big and be creative! Don't just copy what exists...go beyond it. Do a LOT of ideas....and pick from the best in the end. You will create something truly amazing! ~~~T

Thank you again -- this is making my head turn 180 degrees in how I approach these projects now! And this is a great example with Mary Poppins for how we approach each section -- take a "fantasyland" style theme...but do it differently, beyond what's expected, and in the meantime come up with a lot of ideas so that way you have a plethora of options to choose from!