Changes to Peter Pan's Flight at Magic Kingdom

[MerlinTheGoat]

Okay, so, who did they consult? Which nations? Do these people have names?

Beats me. I wasn't told. I would assume so.

 

[easyrowrdw]

I don’t think she’s in the original film. She did show up in Peter Pan & Wendy on Disney+, which was probably the general inspiration for this update.

Thanks. I felt like any change should’ve used actual characters from the movie (perhaps redesigned). I guess this qualifies but it feels pretty obscure compared to the original Disney movie. We’re not talking about Coco or Moana.

 

[Comped]

Okay, I realize that there's a knowledge gap here for most folks, and as a Native person, I understand this isn't everyone's wheelhouse, but one of the issues here is people don't understand where stereotypes begin and end. What looks benign to most folks or an upgrade to most folks isn't. Because so much of what people "know" or think of Native people is rooted in myth and stereotypes. What looks respectfully done to non-Native people is a joke to a Native person. I'm very hard to be patient with this, but this isn't that much better than before. This is just a "nicer" stereotype. If this were done to any other ethnicity, people would be screaming. (And I am not putting up ethnicities against each other, I don't play that, I am just pointing out the hypocrisy.)

And, trust me, I understand, this isn't everyone's wheelhouse. We have a whole holiday in the US dedicated to the weird Happy Meal picnic myth. Most people do not know any Native people. I am trying to be gentle and meet people where they are.

Also, Tiger Lily is supposed to be doing Fancy Shawl, not ice skating. Which would be more obvious if they had done it right.

As an Indian myself, I find this kind of cultural attempt at recorrectness more offensive than being offensive. The previous scene was accurate to the film and the book, this one is not really. It was a change for the sake of change for political reasons rather than to actually enhance the scene or the ride overall. Far as I know the tribe in the book or the film is not specific to any real life tribe, so it's not like they could have asked anyone how to specifically depict them, just a bunch of other tribes that have their own opinions that aren't actually correct in this very particular scenario. If Disney was depicting a particular tribe, I would be all for having realistic representation but this is literally representing a bunch of people who do not exist in a film that is clearly a fantasy film for children and families. Is it a little stereotypical? Yes. But in moving to represent them more realistically while also publicly announcing they are killing off the last representation of actual Indians in Magic Kingdom, not fantasy ones that do not exist, I can't help but feel quite a bit hollow. At least they kept this scene. I was thinking they were going to get rid of it entirely like they did to less problematic content on Pirates (at least that had a historical basis).

 

[castlecake2.0]

Okay, I realize that there's a knowledge gap here for most folks, and as a Native person, I understand this isn't everyone's wheelhouse, but one of the issues here is people don't understand where stereotypes begin and end. What looks benign to most folks or an upgrade to most folks isn't. Because so much of what people "know" or think of Native people is rooted in myth and stereotypes. What looks respectfully done to non-Native people is a joke to a Native person. I'm very hard to be patient with this, but this isn't that much better than before. This is just a "nicer" stereotype. If this were done to any other ethnicity, people would be screaming. (And I am not putting up ethnicities against each other, I don't play that, I am just pointing out the hypocrisy.)

And, trust me, I understand, this isn't everyone's wheelhouse. We have a whole holiday in the US dedicated to the weird Happy Meal picnic myth. Most people do not know any Native people. I am trying to be gentle and meet people where they are.

Also, Tiger Lily is supposed to be doing Fancy Shawl, not ice skating. Which would be more obvious if they had done it right.

Im listening and curious to learn more. I am not native but am from Canada where I have been very interested in and an advocate of reconciliation. So can you help me understand a bit more? Is there a way they can do this justice without removing the representation all together?

 

[wdwmagic]

The queue has also been updated to reflect the new scene

 

[mf1972]

I think most people that go to Disney can't remember what scene was replaced.

 

[mickEblu]

Those figures look like knock offs from a Chinese theme park.

I’m getting Sinbad Tokyo vibes. Not Peter Pan.

 

[Consumer]

I’m getting Sinbad Tokyo vibes. Not Peter Pan.

Everybody's arguing about whether or not it's offensive, but the fact of the matter is the new characters look like garbage.

 

[mickEblu]

Okay, so, who did they consult? Which nations? Do these people have names?

Greg S. from Accounting who is half Cherokee and Kyrie Irving.

 

[LSLS]

Not gonna lie, my expectations were total removal. I actually think this looks, really good? Like, maybe even an improvement over the original? I don't know, I know it's a small thing, but I'll give credit on this, I think they did a great job with it.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I think yall are biased towards 70s WDI because wow, the old figures were so ugly. I don’t even think the new ones are even particularly great, but I do think they’re a net improvement.

 

[JohnD]

• “Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls”
• Trader Sam
• Splash Mountain
• Tom Sawyer Island
• Rivers of America
• Liberty Square
• Hall of Presidents
• Original Native American scene in PP

What’s next on the list? If I had to guess I’d say the repeated marticide played for laughs in the Haunted Mansion.

The vaulted ITM (sarcasm) is constantly "warning" about the hanging scene in the portrait gallery.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Greg S. from Accounting who is half Cherokee and Kyrie Irving.

Hey, Kyrie actually goes to Ceremony, he would probably not be a bad person to ask, tbh!

 

[aladdin2007]

I like it, tigerlily does look a little different than the original film but at least they didnt eradicate her and the village all together, its nicely done. I would prefer they not start pushing in some other film from disneyplus or whatever it is with those characters such as her grandmother and just stick to the original film only, however still it blends in well and is fresh.

Any other changes being reported show wise?

 

[Brian]

But in moving to represent them more realistically while also publicly announcing they are killing off the last representation of actual Indians in Magic Kingdom, not fantasy ones that do not exist, I can't help but feel quite a bit hollow.

I believe the Indian camp along the railroad track between Frontierland and Fantasyland is still there. At least for now. I'm confident it will be removed for the Frontierland/Beyond Big Thunder plans, if not sooner.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Im listening and curious to learn more. I am not native but am from Canada where I have been very interested in and an advocate of reconciliation. So can you help me understand a bit more? Is there a way they can do this justice without removing the representation all together?

Sorry if this isn't the best articulated because I am on my phone and not a computer. As far as Indigenous people go, I do not differentiate between anyone in both South or North America who may be Indigenous (so that includes so-Called Canada, México, etc.) because traditionally those borders never existed to us. I think a fantasy setting which groups Native people in with magical and fictional creatures just isn't it. They could have replaced the Native people with fictional Faerie things and it would have been better than trying to make this new thing work.

Although I've seen a few other Native people say that they could have used the Tiger Lily from the new live action movie, which I haven't seen yet, but apparently even though the film was bad, she was great in it and people uniformly loved her in it, which I was pleasantly surprised by.

 

[UNCgolf]

I don't understand why they didn't just replace it with a different vignette featuring other characters from the film.

It now doesn't match the characters from the film (which is good), but that also makes it feel a little out of place. More importantly, it's only a relatively small improvement from a stereotype standpoint, so...

 

[flynnibus]

This is an excellent way to evolve storytelling without complete removal. I can’t see how anyone can be upset by this.

I think it's playcating at best. Problematic story and characters? How about we just remove the visual you don't like and pretend none of it happened?

If you want to bury that part of the story - own it and tear it up. Instead we get some Enchanto style replacements whitewashing the whole subject?

Majority of these figures don't represent anyone from the film except to be 'generic' indians.

I find it a hand-wavy way to address the problem... and guts the artistic value of the scene.

Up next, we're going to start replacing the children in the ride to make them more racially diverse to better match current demographics...

 

[AndyS2992]

The Tiger Lily is fine but the rest of the characters do not fit the artistic style and stick out like a sore thumb and look completely out of place. Just Tiger Lily on her own would have sufficed, or just removing the scene and replacing it with a brand new one would have worked fine. The whole ride is completely dated and needs gutting and redoing in the style of Shanghai's or Tokyo's Fantasy Springs Peter Pan ride anyway. The facade, along with Small World and Philharmagic really need a makeover. Get rid of the tents and give them actual themeing worthy of a Disney park. Disneyland fixed this issue back in the 80s.

 

[haveyoumetmark]

Exceeds expectations but if you’re looking for problems, you’ll find them.