Changes to Peter Pan's Flight at Magic Kingdom

SpectroMagician

Well-Known Member
You may need to reread what I posted. I was not talking at all about the ride. I was responding on someone who had shared images of Natives to prove a point. Just trying to provide some context on the subject so this conversation wouldn't devolve into further stereotypes.

I think a lot of people here need to ask themselves why they care much more about an attraction than they do about real people.
Right the native americans lives were much more brutal and violent than the images. Many were cannibals, and they would brutally m*rder and r*pe the women of opposing tribes.

So a romanticized version in the Peter Pan ride that existed before had no issues. The new version just looks like native people today in the 2000s, not in the early 1900s.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
So we really have to decide-do we want historically accurate attractions based on animated films, or do we want fantasized depictions? It seems a bit hypocritical to say one is ok but the other is not

It’s never been about historical accuracy- it’s always about not offending
 
Right the native americans lives were much more brutal and violent than the images. Many were cannibals, and they would brutally m*rder and r*pe the women of opposing tribes.

So a romanticized version in the Peter Pan ride that existed before had no issues. The new version just looks like native people today in the 2000s, not in the early 1900s.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and not assume that you despise Natives, but going out of your way to take the conversation into a darker direction isn't a good look nor does it add to the discourse.

This is the last I will speak on the topic, but I recommend all of us to learn more about where harmful stereotypes come from and why they persist to this day. Even if we don't think we do have an impact, what we say matters (even on a message board).
 

Ice Gator

Well-Known Member
Right the native americans lives were much more brutal and violent than the images. Many were cannibals, and they would brutally m*rder and r*pe the women of opposing tribes.

So a romanticized version in the Peter Pan ride that existed before had no issues. The new version just looks like native people today in the 2000s, not in the early 1900s.
it’s not that deep
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
That's because deep down the discourse is actually about whether or not you are okay with change.
I’m fine with the change, I’m ok with the previous version as well, and I’d also be ok with only showing the teepees or replacing the scene altogether.

I did like hearing from members who are Native American and hear thoughts on the new scene from them - it kinda sounds like the new scene creates as many problems as it solves.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Since this change allows Peter Pan's Flight to remain mostly as it was, I'm fine with it. At least they didn't decide the whole ride needed to be rethemed like Splash. In this case, there was something potentially offensive IN the ride that they altered.
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
Everyone keeps saying that tribal leaders were consultanted, but no one can tell say who they were. Which nations? Which leaders?
This is an important question, given Disney’s recent history in this regard.

 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
the other thing is this was an indigenous tribe of Neverland.... not an indigenous American tribe...From the original book illustrations it was clear the inspiration was a romanticized view of an American tribe...
any sort of accuracy seems wrong in a complete fantasy piece that basically takes place on another planet.
The new scene looks fine, but why didn't they base it on the dance between Peter Pan and Tiger Lily?...something that happened in the actual film instead of something off-model.
 

V_L_Raptor

Well-Known Member
Got to see this in person the other day, and speaking just as an observer, the whole arrangement looks like trying to improve on what was previously there with constraints from what's still there.

The first thing that hit me was how tremendously low animation the whole ride is. Easily the most kinetic element (to me, anyway) is having all the pirate ship vehicles dangling from the ceiling. The scenes themselves are fairly static; by extension, so is the tribe scene.

As far as that goes, first off... I don't remember figures in any of the "islands" being quite as large as these are. That surprised me, but it's been ages since I've been on this ride, so that may just be me.

But the scene's animation, or lack thereof... I'm not sure how much of an improvement they could have done with scene selection while getting a decent representation of movement with the ride's overall (mostly static) animation style. Either because they were retrofitting existing mechanisms or because they chose to keep the scene relatively low kinetics in keeping with the rest of the ride, there's really not too much they could use here to get a good representation of Fancy Shawl. If you count the drummers as a single mechanism (hey, maybe), that's a grand total of two elements in the whole scene for them to play with.

Since they went with drum beats for the audio there, animating striking the drum seems like a no-brainer. That leaves them one more mechanism, and I can't imagine they'd want a completely static Tiger Lily after the previous version of this scene.

Ribbons would have been great, but I wonder how long it would take for them to start looking like strips cut from a Swiffer duster. (Proactive maintenance on these classic dark rides... ain't.) Adding animation for Tiger Lily's arms and legs to really show off the dance would've been a lot more movement than any other scene in this ride has. They could've had a (slow) animation in the shoulders to move the arms, but for whatever reason, they came up with a turntable to have her whole body move while keeping her joints static.

I can't defend it, except to say that if the whole ride sucks for movement, additions would need to suck, too, just to fit in. Beyond that, if it has to fit the constraints of the ride, what's there looks better to me than what was there previously.
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
You sure?
There is some history with pirates engaging in human trafficking, more along the lines of using prostitutes to make money, but even if it wasn't 100% historically accurate, it fits with what pirates actually were-they were outlaws and criminals. They weren't nice human beings, and they would never be selling chickens.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
There is some history with pirates engaging in human trafficking, more along the lines of using prostitutes to make money, but even if it wasn't 100% historically accurate, it fits with what pirates actually were-they were outlaws and criminals. They weren't nice human beings, and they would never be selling chickens.
what about clocks , paintings, and bric-a-brac? lol
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
Right the native americans lives were much more brutal and violent than the images. Many were cannibals, and they would brutally m*rder and r*pe the women of opposing tribes.

So a romanticized version in the Peter Pan ride that existed before had no issues. The new version just looks like native people today in the 2000s, not in the early 1900s.
This? This isn't it, kids.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
There is some history with pirates engaging in human trafficking, more along the lines of using prostitutes to make money, but even if it wasn't 100% historically accurate, it fits with what pirates actually were-they were outlaws and criminals. They weren't nice human beings, and they would never be selling chickens.
I’m sure they never ate, and chickens were plentiful in the sea, anyway.
 

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