Changes to Peter Pan's Flight at Magic Kingdom

[CalebS]

As a non politically correct individual that was irritated over the splash replacement and the pirates of the carribean change, I believe that this was a reasonable result without harming the attraction. It is much better than a complete removal

 

[disneyC97]

I personally like the tents of WDW’s Fantasyland. They feel vintage at this point and are distinctive compared to what other Fantasylands now have.

I agree. And I hear this complaint time and again even though the WDW Fantasyland opened with (12 years before the DL New Fantasyland) and continues to have the more elaborate facades on the non-attraction buildings (from Pinocchio Village Haus to the courtyard shops and even Friar Nook and ice cream place). With the Pooh facade revamp, it’s really just 4: IASW, Peter Pan, Philharmagic, and the princesses with the tent entry.
Now, the color scheme on the village buildings have skewed more plasticy princess pink and blue, but that’s a different complaint.

 

[James Alucobond]

There's no sugar coating the fact that the tribes are in Neverland because they're seen as about as real as faeries and mermaids.

I am by no means an expert on the source material, but within the context of the ride, I’m not exactly sure why they would have to be read that way. The Lost Boys and Hook’s Pirates are also groups that inhabit Neverland, but that doesn’t make them the equivalent of faeries and mermaids. They’re each factions in a magical land, some of which are distinctly human and some of which are fantastical.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Excellent upgrade. Now, do this level of upgrade for the entire ride.

 

[easyrowrdw]

Is Tiger Lily’s grandmother a character in the movie? I have no recollection of her.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Looks like the "keep the natives but change their designs" suggestion made by some of the tribal leaders that Disney consulted won out over the "get rid of them entirely" and "don't change anything" suggestions from the other tribes.

Can't unsee "Muppet Bill Cosby" though now that someone pointed that out...

It doesn't look like they consulted anyone It looks like they did a surface level Google search.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Also, Tiger Lily is supposed to be doing Fancy Shawl, not ice skating. Which would be more obvious if they had done it right.

What would "doing it right" have looked like? I'm genuinely and intellectually curious and would like to get more perspective on it.

 

[Ghost93]

It doesn't look like they consulted anyone It looks like they did a surface level Google search.

I'm sure they consulted people, but that doesn't mean they did a great job. After all, Native Americans were consulted for Pocahontas and THAT was still an extremely controversial and problematic film.

One part of the problem for the company deciding what to do is that Native Americans (like any minority) aren't a monolith, and there are a wide variety of opinions on what is and isn't offensive. However, I cynically imagine the Disney company will listen to the voices that reaffirm what they already want to hear and will allow them to make the most profit.

Last year, when Disney's live-action version of Peter Pan came out, I saw some Native Americans on Twitter liking the representation of Tiger Lilly while others said there is no redeeming the inherently racist nature of the source material.

 

[James Alucobond]

Is Tiger Lily’s grandmother a character in the movie? I have no recollection of her.

I don’t think she’s in the original film. She did show up in Peter Pan & Wendy on Disney+, which was probably the general inspiration for this update.

 

[Ripken10]

Is Tiger Lily’s grandmother a character in the movie? I have no recollection of her.

Go get ‘em firewood - that’s who I assumed she was from movie

 

[Phicinfan]

Okay, I realize that there's a knowledge gap here for most folks, and as a Native person, I understand this isn't everyone's wheelhouse, but one of the issues here is people don't understand where stereotypes begin and end. What looks benign to most folks or an upgrade to most folks isn't. Because so much of what people "know" or think of Native people is rooted in myth and stereotypes. What looks respectfully done to non-Native people is a joke to a Native person. I'm very hard to be patient with this, but this isn't that much better than before. This is just a "nicer" stereotype. If this were done to any other ethnicity, people would be screaming. (And I am not putting up ethnicities against each other, I don't play that, I am just pointing out the hypocrisy.)

And, trust me, I understand, this isn't everyone's wheelhouse. We have a whole holiday in the US dedicated to the weird Happy Meal picnic myth. Most people do not know any Native people. I am trying to be gentle and meet people where they are.

Also, Tiger Lily is supposed to be doing Fancy Shawl, not ice skating. Which would be more obvious if they had done it right.

For the record, I too have Native heritage, and I find no offense at this at all. Especially as this is for a "fantasy" effect and not realism.

 

[Drdcm]

It’s almost like different people within the same group can have different perceptions on what’s appropriate… who is more correct?

 

[Phicinfan]

It’s almost like different people within the same group can have different perceptions on what’s appropriate… who is more correct?

Neither, anyone has the right to their own opinions. Nothing wrong with that

 

[Drdcm]

Neither, anyone has the right to their own opinions. Nothing wrong with that

Exactly. Good answer

 

[Dear Prudence]

What would "doing it right" have looked like? I'm genuinely and intellectually curious and would like to get more perspective on it.

Truthfully, it looks like they did a very surface level Google search on Native dances and chose the most aesthetic one to a non-Native person. You could synchronize whatever she's doing now to the "soooaarrinnn', fllyyyyyiinnnn'" song from High School Musical.

Her shawl has no patterns, no ribbons. Her dress is still the same buckskin Halloween costume from the original movie. There are a few more modern touches (like the belt and the boots) that they would have picked up from a Google search. I can sort of see not wanting to pin them down to a specific Nation and keeping it more "generic," but it comes across as stereotypical and lazy. They could have given her a little bit more movement. Fancy Shawl is GORGEOUS, so I can see wanting to have it for her as her dance. But it doesn't look like fancy shawl, it looks like a kid running around with a towel playing Indian because they saw Fancy Shawl on TV.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

For the record, I too have Native heritage, and I find no offense at this at all. Especially as this is for a "fantasy" effect and not realism.

How did you feel about the old scene ? Do you feel this is an improvement culturally?

 

[Phicinfan]

How did you feel about the old scene ? Do you feel this is an improvement culturally?

Honestly, the original scene wasn't a big deal to me as again this was a fantasy situation. But yes, I do feel this is clearly an improvement over the "classical" mythical stereotyping they had before.

The big noses and such were a bit overly done...

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I am by no means an expert on the source material, but within the context of the ride, I’m not exactly sure why they would have to be read that way. The Lost Boys and Hook’s Pirates are also groups that inhabit Neverland, but that doesn’t make them the equivalent of faeries and mermaids. They’re each factions in a magical land, some of which are distinctly human and some of which are fantastical.

In the original novel and author's intent, the pirates at least were apparently not originally from Neverland. Hook was apparently once a part of Blackbeard's crew (the crappy 2015 prequel film Pan even sort of tried to incorporate him into the story). Barrie apparently implied that Hook was from the real world but did not elaborate upon who he really was or how he was able to get to Neverland in the first place. My original Pan lore is rusty and incomplete though.

The Natives may have been similarly implied to have been from the real world originally and somehow came to inhabit Neverland through unknown means. Though i'm not sure if this is ever as explicitly noted by the books and author as the pirates.

The Lost Boys are explicitly stated to not originate from Neverland as well. They along with Peter Pan himself are children who were from the real world who came to Neverland because they did not want to grow up into adults. They eventually are brought back to the real world, and the Darling family create an orphanage for them to live and eventually find new parents.

Fairies are one of the few humanoid characters who are native to the island, along with possibly the mermaids. Since both are explicitly mythical fictional creatures within the context of the story and not regular humans.

It doesn't look like they consulted anyone It looks like they did a surface level Google search.

They actually did consult quite a number of tribal leaders on the matter. With it boiling down to those three suggestions I noted. I don't actually know if Disney went with the majority opinion, but there were definitely quite a fair number of "don't change them" and "keep them but change the designs" ones that I think were both more popular than the "get rid of them entirely" suggestion.

Doesn't necessarily mean that Disney ultimately created a scene that will be viewed as good, but I will again reiterate that there was indeed real consulting done on the matter.

 

[Dear Prudence]

In the original novel and author's intent, the pirates at least were apparently not originally from Neverland. Hook was apparently once a part of Blackbeard's crew (the crappy 2015 prequel film Pan even sort of tried to incorporate him into the story). Barrie apparently implied that Hook was from the real world but did not elaborate upon who he really was or how he was able to get to Neverland in the first place. My original Pan lore is rusty and incomplete though.

The Natives may have been similarly implied to have been from the real world originally and somehow came to inhabit Neverland through unknown means. Though i'm not sure if this is ever as explicitly noted by the books and author as the pirates.

The Lost Boys are explicitly stated to not originate from Neverland as well. They along with Peter Pan himself are children who were from the real world who came to Neverland because they did not want to grow up into adults. They eventually are brought back to the real world, and the Darling family create an orphanage for them to live and eventually find new parents.

Fairies are one of the few humanoid characters who are native to the island, along with possibly the mermaids. Since both are explicitly mythical fictional creatures within the context of the story and not regular humans.


They actually did consult quite a number of tribal leaders on the matter. With it boiling down to those three suggestions I noted. I don't actually know if Disney went with the majority opinion, but there were definitely quite a fair number of "don't change them" and "keep them but change the designs" ones that I think were both more popular than the "get rid of them entirely" suggestion.

Doesn't necessarily mean that Disney ultimately created a scene that will be viewed as good, but I will again reiterate that there was indeed real consulting done on the matter.

Okay, so, who did they consult? Which nations? Do these people have names?

 

[arich35]

I think most people that go to Disney can't remember what scene was replaced.