How utterly underwhelming of you. But, nary a surprise there.....
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How utterly underwhelming of you. But, nary a surprise there.....
Evil Genius
Well-Known Member
You know, in all the vacation evenings the wife and I spent wandering through PI...up to the bitter end...I never ONCE encountered anything that could remotely be considered 'gang activity'.
Drunks? Yes.
Obnoxious people in general? You bet.
But nothing gang oriented.
However it was obvious the clubs were losing money as towards the end most evenings they appeared dead. I don't think completely abandoning the idea of PI was the right answer...but it's clear something needed to be done.
Of course I also think removing the entrance fee to PI mucked things up as well.
Drunks? Yes.
Obnoxious people in general? You bet.
But nothing gang oriented.
However it was obvious the clubs were losing money as towards the end most evenings they appeared dead. I don't think completely abandoning the idea of PI was the right answer...but it's clear something needed to be done.
Of course I also think removing the entrance fee to PI mucked things up as well.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Many Boardwalk venues should start to worry if thats the criteria for judging profitability.
Actually, if you had ever taken the time to read what was written I never called you a liar. I simply asked that you prove where gangs and drunken behavior contributed to PI closing down (which you have yet to provide). I have little doubt that profits (or lack thereof) was the primary reason those clubs shut down. Everything else is just hyperbole and conjecture. Not facts....
As for the rest, well someone needs a nappy.....
Evil Genius
Well-Known Member
Well yes they do!
If people aren't spending money buying drinks and actually hanging out in the clubs then they aren't going to turn a profit. Now obviously during the off seasons attendance will be lower, but towards the end I could be down there during peak times and the dance clubs would be ghost towns.
CM nights were still good but as I've been informed they weren't really spending all that much money and just went to dance...no money to be made there either.
Evil Genius
Well-Known Member
I think that all depends on what your definition of "gang activity" is.
We'd often see groups of younger folks that maybe a little than normal hanging out around PI being obnoxious and being overtly irritating, but I hardly think that constitutes gang activity.
I'd love to hear some actual clear cut examples of said activity and not just conjecture.
"More arrests" than what? Still waiting for proof on all of this nefarious gang activity.....
Thank God I'm not holding my breath....
Mr.EPCOT
Active Member
How do you know I wasn't there? That's quite the assumption on your part that would seem to indicate that you are not considering this rationally and logically. I'm not wrong, and you can't really prove otherwise unless you've got documentation. I don't have any, but I can at least provide anecdotal evidence. I was there at least once every week, sometimes more, and usually on different days of the week. NEVER saw any kind of gang element. Doesn't mean they didn't show up every once in a long while, but it wasn't enough to deem the place unsafe. And of course there's the typical drunk idiots, but not noticeably excessive over anywhere else. Also, why would they close the supposedly only two profitable ventures that also happen to be venues that do not typically encourage people to get overly drunk and attract a gang element? That's because the true motivation for all of the clubs closures was probably that there was a desire for third-party businesses that would make lots of money for Disney with minimal effort by Disney itself. This is further made likely by the unfortunate trend for Disney to outsource more and more of their operations, from everything to valet to restaurants. This has also been supported by the two or three people who have regularly posted on this site for a long time who are proven privy to such information.
If you have proof, or even a reasonable counter-argument I'd be more than happy to reconsider my position, but you have to do better than just saying I'm wrong and accusing me of spreading lies.
Evil Genius
Well-Known Member
Arrests do not equal gang activity. Again unless there are stats to back this specific allegation up...it's all conjecture.
Besides, even if arrests were up, that's an issue that can be for the most part dealt with by an increase in security. The thing is TDO simply washed their hands of Pleasure Island and left it to die.
Besides, even if arrests were up, that's an issue that can be for the most part dealt with by an increase in security. The thing is TDO simply washed their hands of Pleasure Island and left it to die.
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Yeesh, even Kanye West would find you to be egocentrical...
Perhaps you should prove that you're right before calling everyone else wrong.
Evil Genius
Well-Known Member
How about the fact that as attendance to the clubs began to deminish you began to see a lack up upkeep and maintenance in said clubs. As less people spent time in them, it was clear the less TDO was concerned with keeping them well maintained because they really did begin to look ratty inside. Some worse than others...but there was a clear overall decay in their upkeep.
That falls in the lap of management.
Now perhaps if they had kept the clubs in better condition then the crowds might have eventually returned. However as PI clubs deteriorated, venues in other parts of Orlando were growing and flourishing. Specifically the newer clubs in downtown Orlando.
It really falls back to that old addage "If you build it, they will come." Only in this instance it's more like 'If you ignore them, they will leave."
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Maybe you are TDO. :lol:
That was all I needed to hear. Carry on.
Mr.EPCOT
Active Member
Let's see if I can counter each point in a polite and rational manner...
Okay, we live in a universe of infinite possibilities, but you do have to provide proof.
So if a shopping mall is having trouble, you should shut every single store down?
I believe that Lee, tirian, and Imayoyo, (and perhaps others I'm forgetting) the aforementioned proven insiders, all have indicated that this is indeed the situation.
Okay, we both have opposing viewpoints of anecdotal evidence, so perhaps we are at an impasse there. However, considering the emotional state you are exhibiting, I doubt that a significant amount of posters will trust that you are calm enough not to embellish or invent your experiences.
Could be wrong... or could very well be that it was just an idea that failed miserably.
Regardless of the actual extent of the problem, it was certainly one that needed to be addressed. Unfortunately, it's one that Disney created for itself by poor placement of the West Side.
So much for civil discourse. If there's any chance you'd like start conversing in a polite manner, I'd be happy to continue the debate. If you truly have extensive experience with the Island, most people will listen and give it proper weight, but not with the attitude that you have now.
Okay, we live in a universe of infinite possibilities, but you do have to provide proof.
So if a shopping mall is having trouble, you should shut every single store down?
I believe that Lee, tirian, and Imayoyo, (and perhaps others I'm forgetting) the aforementioned proven insiders, all have indicated that this is indeed the situation.
Okay, we both have opposing viewpoints of anecdotal evidence, so perhaps we are at an impasse there. However, considering the emotional state you are exhibiting, I doubt that a significant amount of posters will trust that you are calm enough not to embellish or invent your experiences.
Could be wrong... or could very well be that it was just an idea that failed miserably.
Regardless of the actual extent of the problem, it was certainly one that needed to be addressed. Unfortunately, it's one that Disney created for itself by poor placement of the West Side.
So much for civil discourse. If there's any chance you'd like start conversing in a polite manner, I'd be happy to continue the debate. If you truly have extensive experience with the Island, most people will listen and give it proper weight, but not with the attitude that you have now.
I again have tidied up this thread. I suggest you ignore the interruption and go back to the discussion. As mentioned, the burden of proof is on the person presenting his "facts." Opinions carry equal weight, and cannot be false or true - just different. Others are free to believe them or not, but it doesn't make someone wrong in fact, just in your opinion. 
IMO, this thread can be saved. :lol: But I could be mistaken.
IMO, this thread can be saved. :lol: But I could be mistaken.
PixarfortheWin
New Member
Okay lets break down what you said...
Look at restaurants...many times the bar area makes money but the food area does not...so instead of closing down just the dining area they close the whole restaurant down...that is a better analogy than a mall since in a mall they are all separately run and independent shops where as in PI they are all owned and operated by the same people.
So you named three people who have no real claim to their OPINIONS. I want real sources....
Civil? I made a claim supported by facts and yet you attacked using no facts. I am right, i really dont care if you dont believe me because you guys remind me of typical Internet folk who believe anything that a website tells you....
PixarfortheWin
New Member
I again have tidied up this thread. I suggest you ignore the interruption and go back to the discussion. As mentioned, the burden of proof is on the person presenting his "facts." Opinions carry equal weight, and cannot be false or true - just different. Others are free to believe them or not, but it doesn't make someone wrong in fact, just in your opinion.
IMO, this thread can be saved. :lol: But I could be mistaken.
The burden of proof is on the person making the claim that Disney lies and that PI closed because of poor management.....
No, the burden of proof is on you. You have said that others are wrong because the facts back you. If that is true, produce them. Otherwise, you are expressing an opinion based upon personal perceptions, discussions with others, etc that may or may not be fact. Just like everyone else posting.
I did not see anyone making a claim that "Disney lies."
So, either provide proof, or stop arguing and telling people that they are wrong or lying.