Changes at DTD

[jt04]

I'm old enough to remember. I'm saying it didn't happen.

And I remember the news stories on television. So I am certain OrSen would have also covered the issue. I'm standing by that and sooner or later, as usual, I will be proven correct.

Some of you never learn.

 

[xdan0920]

And I remember the news stories on television. So I am certain OrSen would have also covered the issue. I'm standing by that and sooner or later, as usual, I will be proven correct.

Some of you never learn.

I may be one of the only people who actually enjoy your posts, and agree with a lot of what you say. But on this issue I think you are wrong. I don't doubt there were some problems with drunks and the like at PI. But that is the case anywhere there is drinking. So I do not think PI would have any higher amount of cases then anywhere else on property where drinking is allowed, such as WS or Boardwalk.

TDO just made a horribly short sighted decision based on the idea that 3rd parties would be tripping over themselves to get into DtD. A piece of evidence for this theory over yours is Paradiso 37. If TDO was trying to get out of the bar and club business, they would not have allowed Paradiso in.

They misjudged the economy, and the perceived value of PI property. Hopefully they correct this soon. Just a nice mix of 3rd party, and a couple Imagineer inspired places for adults.

 

[jt04]

I may be one of the only people who actually enjoy your posts, and agree with a lot of what you say. But on this issue I think you are wrong. I don't doubt there were some problems with drunks and the like at PI. But that is the case anywhere there is drinking. So I do not think PI would have any higher amount of cases then anywhere else on property where drinking is allowed, such as WS or Boardwalk.

TDO just made a horribly short sighted decision based on the idea that 3rd parties would be tripping over themselves to get into DtD. A piece of evidence for this theory over yours is Paradiso 37. If TDO was trying to get out of the bar and club business, they would not have allowed Paradiso in.

They misjudged the economy, and the perceived value of PI property. Hopefully they correct this soon. Just a nice mix of 3rd party, and a couple Imagineer inspired places for adults.

You are really mixing two different issues. Ultimately PI was closed for a myriad of reasons. The spin is that it was just "stupid suits" but it is much much more complicated than that. Youth violence, crime, drugs, scarce profits, existing tenants throughout DTD complaints, liability, image, new management, recession, changing taste, all weighed in the decision. It was not as simplistic as people let on. It is insulting that they act like it is.

I am specifically refering to multiple fatalities that involved people who had been to PI and the associated news stories. I even believe one story involved underage drinking. Which was big news at the time but yet nobody seems to remember. Likely they are choosing not to remember.

 

[Mr. Morrow]

You are really mixing two different issues. Ultimately PI was closed for a myriad of reasons. The spin is that it was just "stupid suits" but it is much much more complicated than that. Youth violence, crime, drugs, scarce profits, existing tenants throughout DTD complaints, liability, image, new management, recession, changing taste, all weighed in the decision. It was not as simplistic as people let on. It is insulting that they act like it is.

I am specifically refering to multiple fatalities that involved people who had been to PI and the associated news stories. I even believe one story involved underage drinking. Which was big news at the time but yet nobody seems to remember. Likely they are choosing not to remember.

Yet you still offer no proof.

 

[jt04]

Yet you still offer no proof.

I've got an idea. How about you offer proof that I don't have proof.

I want everyone on the record before I lower the hammer and prove once and for all the doubters wrong.

 

[Mr. Morrow]

I've got an idea. How about you offer proof that I don't have proof.

I want everyone on the record before I lower the hammer and prove once and for all the doubters wrong.

You are the one trying to prove something so how about it?

 

[Hrudey3032]

You are really mixing two different issues. Ultimately PI was closed for a myriad of reasons. The spin is that it was just "stupid suits" but it is much much more complicated than that. Youth violence, crime, drugs, scarce profits, existing tenants throughout DTD complaints, liability, image, new management, recession, changing taste, all weighed in the decision. It was not as simplistic as people let on. It is insulting that they act like it is.

I am specifically refering to multiple fatalities that involved people who had been to PI and the associated news stories. I even believe one story involved underage drinking. Which was big news at the time but yet nobody seems to remember. Likely they are choosing not to remember.

More likely you are making it up in your own mind as you have yet to research your story to prove it. Without any links provided your ideas of what happened are just your take on things.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I've got an idea. How about you offer proof that I don't have proof.

I want everyone on the record before I lower the hammer and prove once and for all the doubters wrong.

I think you should be using the word clue instead of proof.

But as always Jt amusing, but in a, someone else's looney old uncle who fiddles with himself in public sort of way

 

[lazyboy97o]

And I remember the news stories on television. So I am certain OrSen would have also covered the issue. I'm standing by that and sooner or later, as usual, I will be proven correct.

Some of you never learn.

I provided links to the Orlando Sentinel's searchable, online archive. I showed how easy it was to find stories about the Monorail Silver fire that occurred before the opening of Pleasure Island. I did searches on Google and even found you a blogger who seems to agree with you. I've done more to try and prove your point.

When have you ever been proven right? You rarely talk in specifics and try to recontext the ones you do state. You said there was a series of drunk driving incidents that became a local problem, but then changed to claim you were only trying to verify your memory, back to saying it happened and that others are part of a cover up!

 

[xdan0920]

The simple fact is, drunk driving and roaming gangs had absolutely nothing to do with the closure of PI. There is no point in discussing this any further.

Is there any hope at all for the Island formerly known as PI? Are there any plans in the works? Even any whispers about what may be?

 

[Biff215]

While we may never know Disney's exact reasons for closing the clubs, I also highly doubt that the drinking and drugs had much to do with it. If is was, Disney would have stopped giving CM's free access a long time ago. When I was a CP in 2000, they added a second free night for CM's when PI was still gated. This only created another night when Disney would have to deal with CP's who were either already drunk or trying to drink underage.

Trust me, I saw and knew people who were caught and sent home on the spot. Disney security was pretty good at keeping everything under control, which is why they continued to provide the free access and deal with the problems. They were making money from those who could buy drinks and it packed the clubs which is all that mattered to them.

So the problem existed long before the clubs closed and Disney had the opportunity to help prevent it, but didn't because clearly it wasn't a big enough issue.

 

[Mr. Morrow]

While we may never know Disney's exact reasons for closing the clubs, I also highly doubt that the drinking and drugs had much to do with it. If is was, Disney would have stopped giving CM's free access a long time ago. When I was a CP in 2000, they added a second free night for CM's when PI was still gated. This only created another night when Disney would have to deal with CP's who were either already drunk or trying to drink underage.

Trust me, I saw and knew people who were caught and sent home on the spot. Disney security was pretty good at keeping everything under control, which is why they continued to provide the free access and deal with the problems. They were making money from those who could buy drinks and it packed the clubs which is all that mattered to them.

So the problem existed long before the clubs closed and Disney had the opportunity to help prevent it, but didn't because clearly it wasn't a big enough issue.

The main reason I think it closed was its placement. The only way around it to the other sided of DTD is a very small path next to the rode. This along side with money is why I think it closed.

 

[jt04]

While we may never know Disney's exact reasons for closing the clubs, I also highly doubt that the drinking and drugs had much to do with it. If is was, Disney would have stopped giving CM's free access a long time ago. When I was a CP in 2000, they added a second free night for CM's when PI was still gated. This only created another night when Disney would have to deal with CP's who were either already drunk or trying to drink underage.

Trust me, I saw and knew people who were caught and sent home on the spot. Disney security was pretty good at keeping everything under control, which is why they continued to provide the free access and deal with the problems. They were making money from those who could buy drinks and it packed the clubs which is all that mattered to them.

So the problem existed long before the clubs closed and Disney had the opportunity to help prevent it, but didn't because clearly it wasn't a big enough issue.

Disney security keeping everything under control? So, what years were you there?

 

[jt04]

More likely you are making it up in your own mind as you have yet to research your story to prove it. Without any links provided your ideas of what happened are just your take on things.

Proof? What more proof do you need. All of my posts here are peer reviewed by like minded........peers, and they have certified them valid. They work in the shadows and prefer anonymity by they have credentials and you will just have to take their word for it. Empirical data, critical analysis, and scientific method are so medieval and agenda limiting. You'll just have to accept my word for it. Unless you are one of those backward deniers from the hills of Tennessee.

 

[wizards8507]

Proof? What more proof do you need. All of my posts here are peer reviewed by like minded........peers, and they have certified them valid. They work in the shadows and prefer anonymity by they have credentials and you will just have to take their word for it. Empirical data, critical analysis, and scientific method are so medieval and agenda limiting. You'll just have to accept my word for it. Unless you are one of those backward deniers from the hills of Tennessee.

If you don't want to go all the way to "proof," I believe "evidence" might sway some people.

 

[wm49rs]

If you don't want to go all the way to "proof," I believe "evidence" might sway some people.

But then his anonymous "peer reviewers" would have to take off their aluminum-foil helmets, and that's just not how they play cricket....

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

 

[OFTeric]

While we may never know Disney's exact reasons for closing the clubs, I also highly doubt that the drinking and drugs had much to do with it. If is was, Disney would have stopped giving CM's free access a long time ago. When I was a CP in 2000, they added a second free night for CM's when PI was still gated. This only created another night when Disney would have to deal with CP's who were either already drunk or trying to drink underage.

Trust me, I saw and knew people who were caught and sent home on the spot. Disney security was pretty good at keeping everything under control, which is why they continued to provide the free access and deal with the problems. They were making money from those who could buy drinks and it packed the clubs which is all that mattered to them.

So the problem existed long before the clubs closed and Disney had the opportunity to help prevent it, but didn't because clearly it wasn't a big enough issue.

Before I say anything a disclaimer... these are memories of conversations and other such with some people about PI back in 2004 - 2008... so if I have missed a point, or misrepresented a decision that was made please feel free to correct me.

Back in 2004 PI was showing it's age. The powers that were directly in charge of PI at the time (some really great people) wanted PI to be a bit more fluid and be able to transition and turn over more often than Disney was willing to invest.

The big complaints being the Mannaquins, 8 Traxx, Rock N' Roll Beach Club, BET and Motions should constantly be changing. What they wanted to do, was take some of the great night time talent that they had pretty much put out of business from downtown Orlando, and Pointe Orlando and allow them to operate clubs at Downtown Disney. Giving them the audience that they want, giving Disney the high rent that they want, and giving the guest a fresh and constantly changing/fresh experience. (There was a time that Mannaquins was voted the best night club in the south eastern united states).

So that being said, in order to do this and attract these big players they had to make PI an open area, not a hard ticket. So out went the turn styles, out went the west end state, things were beginning to really take shape at the time when they tore out the west end stage.

Then some people moved on, and some philosophies began to change. Then with PI not being a hard ticket, and the big crusader for this change no longer in Florida, the vision really changed from let's change this experience to OMG we are loosing so much money, we need to dump these venue asap.

So the plan was drafted to get 3rd parties like planned before, but make them restaurants/clubs ala CityWalk, and just be done with it. So they closed PI, the economy crashed, and there was no one there to redevelop like they had hoped... there was no longer that great vision.

So because the mentality had changed and the goal had now been to dump the venues, and get really any 3rd party in there, we have what we have today... a ghost town.

Again if I have misrepresented a decision please correct me, but this is my point of view of the situation, from the information that I have been privy to.

 

[jt04]

If you don't want to go all the way to "proof," I believe "evidence" might sway some people.

Sorry but that is protected by intellectual property laws and so "Freedom of Information" laws are not applicable. Besides the information is highly technical and nuanced so the chances of anyone here being able to decipher it or even understand it at a basic level is nil. So, thank me for doing the work for you and know I'm doing it all for your own good. If you want to donate to help me protect you from yourself, well that is negotiable. You probably already donate through government grants so you can thank us for that too. And remember our motto....

"Saving Them From Themselves Daily"

Pardon me, my brokers on the line.

 

[wm49rs]

I just hope those weren't the same fellows advising you to open the self-aggrandizing "Florida Light Rail" thread. Because if so, you deserve a refund....