Changes at DTD

[Master Yoda]

Before I say anything a disclaimer... these are memories of conversations and other such with some people about PI back in 2004 - 2008... so if I have missed a point, or misrepresented a decision that was made please feel free to correct me.

Back in 2004 PI was showing it's age. The powers that were directly in charge of PI at the time (some really great people) wanted PI to be a bit more fluid and be able to transition and turn over more often than Disney was willing to invest.

The big complaints being the Mannaquins, 8 Traxx, Rock N' Roll Beach Club, BET and Motions should constantly be changing. What they wanted to do, was take some of the great night time talent that they had pretty much put out of business from downtown Orlando, and Pointe Orlando and allow them to operate clubs at Downtown Disney. Giving them the audience that they want, giving Disney the high rent that they want, and giving the guest a fresh and constantly changing/fresh experience. (There was a time that Mannaquins was voted the best night club in the south eastern united states).

So that being said, in order to do this and attract these big players they had to make PI an open area, not a hard ticket. So out went the turn styles, out went the west end state, things were beginning to really take shape at the time when they tore out the west end stage.

Then some people moved on, and some philosophies began to change. Then with PI not being a hard ticket, and the big crusader for this change no longer in Florida, the vision really changed from let's change this experience to OMG we are loosing so much money, we need to dump these venue asap.

So the plan was drafted to get 3rd parties like planned before, but make them restaurants/clubs ala CityWalk, and just be done with it. So they closed PI, the economy crashed, and there was no one there to redevelop like they had hoped... there was no longer that great vision.

So because the mentality had changed and the goal had now been to dump the venues, and get really any 3rd party in there, we have what we have today... a ghost town.

Again if I have misrepresented a decision please correct me, but this is my point of view of the situation, from the information that I have been privy to.

From everything that I have heard your description of what happened is spot on. The #1 reason that PI is in the state that it is in is crappy timing. Had Disney made this move a few years earlier we more than likely not be having this conversation.

 

[Lee]

From everything that I have heard your description of what happened is spot on. The #1 reason that PI is in the state that it is in is crappy timing. Had Disney made this move a few years earlier we more than likely not be having this conversation.

Ditto.
And I should point out, in every plan, up to the final one, had the AC remaining. It wasn't until they got antsy at the end that they decided to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Master Gracey]

Here JT, a nickels worth of free advice. . .

Though I think this message has come too late. I believe you have found a way to dig through the Earth and continue up into the Stratosphere!

Some days you eat the mouse.
Some days the mouse eats you.
But never give into the mouse without a fight!​

KUNGALOOSH!​

 

[SeaCastle]

You are really mixing two different issues. Ultimately PI was closed for a myriad of reasons. The spin is that it was just "stupid suits" but it is much much more complicated than that. Youth violence, crime, drugs, scarce profits, existing tenants throughout DTD complaints, liability, image, new management, recession, changing taste, all weighed in the decision. It was not as simplistic as people let on. It is insulting that they act like it is.

I am specifically refering to multiple fatalities that involved people who had been to PI and the associated news stories. I even believe one story involved underage drinking. Which was big news at the time but yet nobody seems to remember. Likely they are choosing not to remember.

It seems you completely missed Lee's post showing your grand PI closing theory was wrong, so I'll restate it here: it closed because it wasn't making money.

I've got an idea. How about you offer proof that I don't have proof.

I want everyone on the record before I lower the hammer and prove once and for all the doubters wrong.

So you won't offer your proof until your demands are met? And you want everyone to go on the record so you can prove them wrong and let your ego shine?

Proof? What more proof do you need. All of my posts here are peer reviewed by like minded........peers, and they have certified them valid. They work in the shadows and prefer anonymity by they have credentials and you will just have to take their word for it. Empirical data, critical analysis, and scientific method are so medieval and agenda limiting. You'll just have to accept my word for it. Unless you are one of those backward deniers from the hills of Tennessee.

I'd like to meet your peers, because most of what they "certify" are facts pulled from thin air, speculation, opinion, and statements that get proven wrong by the insiders on here.

Sorry but that is protected by intellectual property laws and so "Freedom of Information" laws are not applicable. Besides the information is highly technical and nuanced so the chances of anyone here being able to decipher it or even understand it at a basic level is nil. So, thank me for doing the work for you and know I'm doing it all for your own good. If you want to donate to help me protect you from yourself, well that is negotiable. You probably already donate through government grants so you can thank us for that too. And remember our motto....

"Saving Them From Themselves Daily"

Pardon me, my brokers on the line.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. :shrug:

I don't mean to come across as rude but this is simply ridiculous.

 

[jt04]

Here JT, a nickels worth of free advice. . .

Though I think this message has come too late. I believe you have found a way to dig through the Earth and continue up into the Stratosphere!

Some days you eat the mouse.
Some days the mouse eats you.
But never give into the mouse without a fight!​

KUNGALOOSH!​

Ingrate.

 

[wm49rs]

So you won't offer your proof until your demands are met? And you want everyone to go on the record so you can prove them wrong and let your ego shine?

And report us all to the moderators, don't forget that. All doubters shall be banned! :dazzle:

 

[OFTeric]

after writing all that i got really sad and nostalgic for the AC and CW... I miss them both so much.

 

[jt04]

It seems you completely missed Lee's post showing your grand PI closing theory was wrong, so I'll restate it here: it closed because it wasn't making money.

Spreadsheets can be forwarded to the Ministry of Information Management.



So you won't offer your proof until your demands are met? And you want everyone to go on the record so you can prove them wrong and let your ego shine?

That is protected data not meant for pleebs and the generally uneducated.



I'd like to meet your peers, because most of what they "certify" are facts pulled from thin air, speculation, opinion, and statements that get proven wrong by the insiders on here. Proof is so yesterday!



I can't tell if this is a joke or not. :shrug: We get that a lot.

I don't mean to come across as rude but this is simply ridiculous.

See, that is what I mean about folks here not being able to grasp what is being done to, I mean for you, at even a basic level. Trust me, it is all for your own good and I care more about you than you do. That there is a financial windfall involved is coincidence. Just coincidence. :lookaroun

 

[jt04]

And report us all to the moderators, don't forget that. All doubters shall be banned! :dazzle:

"Us"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

Only the lucky doubters will get banned. The unlucky ones should be so lucky.

 

[SeaCastle]

Spreadsheets can be forwarded to the Ministry of Information Management.

That is protected data not meant for pleebs and the generally uneducated.

Proof is so yesterday!

We get that a lot.

See, that is what I mean about folks here not being able to grasp what is being done to, I mean for you, at even a basic level. Trust me, it is all for your own good and I care more about you than you do. That there is a financial windfall involved is coincidence. Just coincidence. :lookaroun

Perhaps no one believes you because most of your claims are simply not true. Did you ever consider that?

 

[Master Yoda]

after writing all that i got really sad and nostalgic for the AC and CW... I miss them both so much.

As do I. The loss of those 2 venues upsets me more than anything else that has happened at PI.

 

[Lee]

It seems you completely missed Lee's post showing your grand PI closing theory was wrong, so I'll restate it here: it closed because it wasn't making ENOUGH money.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[jt04]

Perhaps no one believes you because most of your claims are simply not true. Did you ever consider that?

Truth is so subjective in the world of neo-science. We never let facts hinder us from saving you from yourself. It's a mostly thankless job but sooner or later we will buy your gratitude. Or else. :xmas:

 

[wizards8507]

Truth is so subjective in the world of neo-science. We never let facts hinder us from saving you from yourself. It's a mostly thankless job but sooner or later we will buy your gratitude. Or else. :xmas:

What?

 

[Krack]

Before I say anything a disclaimer... these are memories of conversations and other such with some people about PI back in 2004 - 2008... so if I have missed a point, or misrepresented a decision that was made please feel free to correct me.

Back in 2004 PI was showing it's age. The powers that were directly in charge of PI at the time (some really great people) wanted PI to be a bit more fluid and be able to transition and turn over more often than Disney was willing to invest.

The big complaints being the Mannaquins, 8 Traxx, Rock N' Roll Beach Club, BET and Motions should constantly be changing. What they wanted to do, was take some of the great night time talent that they had pretty much put out of business from downtown Orlando, and Pointe Orlando and allow them to operate clubs at Downtown Disney. Giving them the audience that they want, giving Disney the high rent that they want, and giving the guest a fresh and constantly changing/fresh experience. (There was a time that Mannaquins was voted the best night club in the south eastern united states).

So that being said, in order to do this and attract these big players they had to make PI an open area, not a hard ticket. So out went the turn styles, out went the west end state, things were beginning to really take shape at the time when they tore out the west end stage.

Then some people moved on, and some philosophies began to change. Then with PI not being a hard ticket, and the big crusader for this change no longer in Florida, the vision really changed from let's change this experience to OMG we are loosing so much money, we need to dump these venue asap.

So the plan was drafted to get 3rd parties like planned before, but make them restaurants/clubs ala CityWalk, and just be done with it. So they closed PI, the economy crashed, and there was no one there to redevelop like they had hoped... there was no longer that great vision.

So because the mentality had changed and the goal had now been to dump the venues, and get really any 3rd party in there, we have what we have today... a ghost town.

Again if I have misrepresented a decision please correct me, but this is my point of view of the situation, from the information that I have been privy to.

Spot on accounting of events as I understand them. The deathblow to the island was the 2004 management decision to both (1) chase 3rd party vendors - less risky to lease than own and manage themselves, and (2) remove the turnstiles and open the Island to unsupervised teenagers.

 

[jt04]

What?

Just remember, your future is being decided by committee and you are not invited. But that does not matter because we are so wayyyy smarter than you. Like duh.


:king:

 

[wm49rs]

What?

Put on the aluminum-foil helmet. That apparently helps with the translation..

 

[jt04]

Spot on accounting of events as I understand them. The deathblow to the island was the 2004 management decision to both (1) chase 3rd party vendors - less risky to lease than own and manage themselves, and (2) remove the turnstiles and open the Island to unsupervised teenagers.

Excellent, the disinformation campaign is working. :drevil:

 

[wizards8507]

Just remember, your future is being decided by committee and you are not invited. But that does not matter because we are so wayyyy smarter than you. Like duh.
:king:

Is this guy serious?

Dude, you're either crazy for believing that, or crazy for thinking you're funny.

 

[OFTeric]

Spot on accounting of events as I understand them. The deathblow to the island was the 2004 management decision to both (1) chase 3rd party vendors - less risky to lease than own and manage themselves, and (2) remove the turnstiles and open the Island to unsupervised teenagers.

If the people who had made the initial plan had remained in place and not gone on to different positions inside and outside the company, I really believe PI would have been a much better place. Some of the proposals that were floated around by potential investors were pretty swanky (in 2004), but now would be lame since almost all those ideas ended up in Vegas, or Miami.